Would a station in Longsight (Manchester) work?

[Senex]

But wasn't this proposal part of PUG2, thus the fast would have been 140mph and essentially dedicated to Pendolinos and Voyagers?

Neil

Yes it was, but those speeds were not planned in this area -- my figures are off a signalling diagram, and how stoppers would have been dealt with comes from briefings at the time.

 

[Emyr]

The only space to build a station would be the Southwest corner of New Bank st, and I'd expect additional track to be laid alongside the current 4 to avoid losing capacity.

Without knowing how the western sheds at Longsight are used, I'm not confident you could lay enough new track to decelerate, stop and accelerate a train without covering at least some distance on the main lines below the units' usual running speeds.

 

[Greybeard33]

Indeed. Up locals on the up fast and down locals on the down slow. Loss of the flexibility of working at Edgeley, where I have quite often known trains switched from one island face to another at very short notice. A whole string of potential junction conflicts. Like quite a few others, I never understood at the time where this idea came from. The Ansaldo signalling fiasco saved us from all that!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Yes, with 70-mph turnouts at Adswood Road Junction. Then 75 on the slow and 90 on the fasts onwards, so the up slow would not have had the same speed as the up fast.

As far as I can see the big loss in not getting that scheme is the failure to bring back Edgeley Jn to Hazel Grove to 60 from the 30/40 speeds that have applied for some twenty-odd years.

Yes it was, but those speeds were not planned in this area -- my figures are off a signalling diagram, and how stoppers would have been dealt with comes from briefings at the time.

Thanks Senex - interesting to learn more detail about this aborted scheme. Imagine the chaos it would have caused at Stockport, with passengers continually dashing to and fro through the subway between Platforms 2 & 4 to try to get the next Manchester train! It is bad enough now when the signallers switch eastbound trains between Platform 0 and Platforms 1/2 at short notice.

 

[12CSVT]

A station would come in very handy for the Longsight Depot Open Day planned for 2017

Open Day ? First I've heard about it.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Open Day ? First I've heard about it.

Yes, apparently Longsight Depot is celebrating its 175 years in 2017, I think the month of June has been mentioned.

 

[Senex]

Thanks Senex - interesting to learn more detail about this aborted scheme. Imagine the chaos it would have caused at Stockport, with passengers continually dashing to and fro through the subway between Platforms 2 & 4 to try to get the next Manchester train! It is bad enough now when the signallers switch eastbound trains between Platform 0 and Platforms 1/2 at short notice.

I agree completely. Perhaps the most interesting feature of those plans now more than a decade and a half old was that there were to be five running lines between Edgeley Jn No 2 and Edgeley Jn No 1, so that the Platform 0 line would have become the up Hope Valley line. I assume this would have meant that the normal use of Platform 0 would have been for all up Sheffield/Buxton trains.

 

[Greybeard33]

I agree completely. Perhaps the most interesting feature of those plans now more than a decade and a half old was that there were to be five running lines between Edgeley Jn No 2 and Edgeley Jn No 1, so that the Platform 0 line would have become the up Hope Valley line. I assume this would have meant that the normal use of Platform 0 would have been for all up Sheffield/Buxton trains.

I have always thought it was penny-pinching to merge the Up Slow and Up Main Loop for the short distance between Edgeley No.2 and No.1 Junctions, but I did not know there was actually a scheme for five lines here. Hope Valley/Hazel Grove/Buxton trains all now normally use Stockport Platform 0, except for one Buxton service from Platform 1 in the evening peak. However, when there are delays a TPE or EMT service sometimes gets a fast line routing from Slade Lane in order to overtake a stopper, so ends up on Platform 2 or 1.

One evening last year an incident at Edgeley caused a backlog at Stockport. After the line was cleared, some trains had to wait up to 10 minutes for a path out of the station - the extra line would have been a big advantage!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I see that this thread has "lost no steam" (in railway parlance) in its aspiration for a reopening of a first station out of Manchester Piccadilly railway station on the main line, despite the most excellent service provision of bus services.

Perhaps another thread may similarly be opened, mirror-image wise, for the reopening of the junction station at Miles Platting, this also being in a similar position on the outward route from Manchester Victoria railway station and also well served with bus services as in the case of this current thread....:roll:

 

[Merseysider]

I see that this thread has "lost no steam" (in railway parlance) in its aspiration for a reopening of a first station out of Manchester Piccadilly railway station on the main line, despite the most excellent service provision of bus services.

Perhaps another thread may similarly be opened, mirror-image wise, for the reopening of the junction station at Miles Platting, this also being in a similar position on the outward route from Manchester Victoria railway station and also well served with bus services as in the case of this current thread....:roll:

With utmost respect Paul, please note the opening line in my OP - this is a purely theoretical discussion. I was merely interested to see others' views on the technical challenges such a station may face, and what sort of developments may be needed, if for whatever reason the building of Longsight station was pondered.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

With utmost respect Paul, please note the opening line in my OP - this is a purely theoretical discussion. I was merely interested to see others' views on the technical challenges such a station may face, and what sort of developments may be needed, if for whatever reason the building of Longsight station was pondered.

Perhaps my cynicism did go into overdrive with that last posting of mine (it has been known to happen occasionally in the past), but notwithstanding that fact, one could draw an analogy to my stated Miles Platting reopening comparision, as that was a four platform junction railway station on the main line running outwards from Manchester Victoria railway station that in my memories of the early 1950's did see main line rail traffic passing through it.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Perhaps my cynicism did go into overdrive with that last posting of mine (it has been known to happen occasionally in the past), but notwithstanding that fact, one could draw an analogy to my stated Miles Platting reopening comparision, as that was a four platform junction railway station on the main line running outwards from Manchester Victoria railway station that in my memories of the early 1950's did see main line rail traffic passing through it.

Indeed Miles Platting (and neighbouring Park station) were closed as recently as 1995 due to falling patronage. The local industry which gave the stations their raison d'etre had declined significantly, and competition from the bus services hoovered up what remained.

If large-scale development in the area changed this, it'd perhaps be worth looking at, but it would be a struggle to fit calls in once there's 4tph passing through on Trans-Pennine services in addition to 2 stoppers an hour on the Ashton route. 4/5+tph towards Rochdale, too.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If large-scale development in the area changed this, it'd perhaps be worth looking at, but it would be a struggle to fit calls in once there's 4tph passing through on Trans-Pennine services in addition to 2 stoppers an hour on the Ashton route. 4/5+tph towards Rochdale, too.

Can anyone confirm a currently-known updated position when all these new cross-Pennine services eventually start, as to how this will leave Ashton railway station, as I may be wrong in what my memory recalls at the age of 69, but I have memories of attending a certain meeting (details that I cannot commit to print) where the very nature of its eventual service provision was called into question.

 

[Ships]

It's served by a 192 bus at least every 10 minutes, and is very close to Manchester city centre so bus journey times are not excessive. I think it would need a metro-style service (at least every 15 minutes) to succeed.

Neil

I would never get the 192, it takes 30-45 minutes as the A6 is horrific and the train takes 8-12 minutes. Also very similar price wise.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Yes, apparently Longsight Depot is celebrating its 175 years in 2017, I think the month of June has been mentioned.

Apologies for going off topic but does Longsight still maintain DMU's / have an location of DMU's? I remember when Longsight was split into LG and LD.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Apologies for going off topic but does Longsight still maintain DMU's / have an location of DMU's? I remember when Longsight was split into LG and LD.

As far as I know it's just the 323 emus now.

 

[Domh245]

Longsight is also the main depot for the class 390s

 

[RichmondCommu]

As far as I know it's just the 323 emus now.

I'm assuming here that all DMU's running in and out of Greater Manchester are now maintained at Newton Heath?

 

[Ash Bridge]

I'm assuming here that all DMU's running in and out of Greater Manchester are now maintained at Newton Heath?

The majority of the Northern Units I would have thought, excepting perhaps 143/144s not certain about the 153/158s either, the last four being types not normally seen at Piccadilly, just at Victoria.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The majority of the Northern Units I would have thought, excepting perhaps 143/144s not certain about the 153/158s either, the last four being types not normally seen at Piccadilly, just at Victoria.

How often are the Class 143 units seen at Manchester Victoria station and what services are they normally seen upon?

 

[12CSVT]

Longsight is also the main depot for the class 390s

I presume Longsight depot is separated into different parts, hence the reason why the allocation code for the 323s (LG) is different from the 390s (MA).
In British Rail days there was a diesel depot within the same complex (LO) with an allocation of 24s, 25s, loads of 40s, DMUs, and latterly HSTs.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I presume Longsight depot is separated into different parts, hence the reason why the allocation code for the 323s (LG) is different from the 390s (MA).

What actual use is regularly made of these days for the very long building that once boasted a very large sign that was significant of thwarted aspirations for all passing rail passengers to see..."Le Eurostar habite ici"

 

[Ash Bridge]

How often are the Class 143 units seen at Manchester Victoria station and what services are they normally seen upon?

Ah yes,so it is just the class 144 nowerdays? (Not to mention Newton Heaths pride and Joy of course!)

I presume Longsight depot is separated into different parts, hence the reason why the allocation code for the 323s (LG) is different from the 390s (MA).
In British Rail days there was a diesel depot within the same complex (LO) with an allocation of 24s, 25s, loads of 40s, DMUs, and latterly HSTs.

I think there are still a pair of 08s resident at Longsight are there not?

 

[dggar]

I would never get the 192, it takes 30-45 minutes as the A6 is horrific and the train takes 8-12 minutes. Also very similar price wise.

what time of day are you referring to and between which stops.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Ah yes,so it is just the class 144 nowerdays? (Not to mention Newton Heaths pride and Joy of course!)


I think there are still a pair of 08s resident at Longsight are there not?

There was a thread which was recently active that suggested there were three or four class 08's resident at Longsight although not all of them were able to operate on the mainline.

 

[stockport1]

I remember a TV show many years ago titled something like
192 - Bus of Death

about the 192!!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Ah yes,so it is just the class 144 nowerdays? (Not to mention Newton Heaths pride and Joy of course!)

There haven't been any 143s North of Cheltenham Spa for the best part of 20years! I think sometimes the 2-car 144s (001-013) are referred to as 143s in error, presumably by those from outside of the West Riding area! It is rather odd that the 10 3-car units aren't classified as 144/1s, as it can be a pain when a 2-car unit turns up vice 3 on a peak Penistone line service.

Oops, remembered the topic of this thread, which I've drifted wildly away from! Apologies

 

[dggar]

I remember a TV show many years ago titled something like
192 - Bus of Death

about the 192!!

Was that when GM Buses were trying to run a 192 service?

 

[Ash Bridge]

There haven't been any 143s North of Cheltenham Spa for the best part of 20years! I think sometimes the 2-car 144s (001-013) are referred to as 143s in error, presumably by those from outside of the West Riding area! It is rather odd that the 10 3-car units aren't classified as 144/1s, as it can be a pain when a 2-car unit turns up vice 3 on a peak Penistone line service.

Oops, remembered the topic of this thread, which I've drifted wildly away from! Apologies

It must be those that I've seen coming in and out of Victoria whilst trucking along Oldham Rd. Miles Platting then, never realised there were 2 car 144s!