Would a preserved 1st generation DMU help Northern?

[breadfan]

As Northern seem to be constantly short of stock, if a preservation group managed to recertify a, for example, class 108, would this not be of interest to Northern for a diagram like Preston-Ormskirk? I could see training drivers etc would incur costs.

Just something I was wondering. Any thoughts?

 

[asylumxl]

No. This kind of thing has been done to death on various rail forums.

 

[northwichcat]

I believe Northern looked at taking a couple of 101s back in to service at one point (years ago) but decided against it due to costs.

What Northern really need is a new set of versatile DMUs, rather than the current set where the Pacers get used on long routes due to being too small for shorter routes and 156s/158s get used on services with frequent stops due to their higher capacity.

 

[breadfan]

No. This kind of thing has been done to death on various rail forums.

Ever so sorry.

 

[asylumxl]

Ever so sorry.

No sorry necessary, sarcastic or otherwise. Just a simple, blunt answer. Sorry if it came across a bit harsh.

The thing is that while many rail enthusiasts would love to see 1st generation units back in service, it just not economically practical. While the units themselves may be cheap, running costs will be high (due to use of fuel, lack of spares etc).

 

[MK Tom]

Perhaps loco haulage using redundant Mark IIs is a more viable solution?

Don't heritage DMUs fail on the Mark I ban? I seem to remember Chiltern having to exempt their 121s.

 

[tom1649]

Don't heritage DMUs fail on the Mark I ban? I seem to remember Chiltern having to exempt their 121s.

Class 121s aren't of Mark I construction. The main problem was the slam doors, but that was solved with the fitting of central locking.

 

[455driver]

Take a 1st generation DMU, overhaul it to an acceptable standard, fit OTDR, GSMR, CDR etc, train up the drivers, guards and fitters, sort out the timings for the route(s) they will be working and off you go!

Wont be more than a few hundred thousand start up costs plus the ongoing leasing and maintenance costs, bargain!

 

[TheKnightWho]

Take a 1st generation DMU, overhaul it to an acceptable standard, fit OTDR, GSMR, CDR etc, train up the drivers, guards and fitters, sort out the timings for the route(s) they will be working and off you go!

Wont be more than a few hundred thousand start up costs plus the ongoing leasing and maintenance costs, bargain!

I think the issue is performance. Unless you're going to be using these things on really backwater routes they're just going to get in the way.

 

[tbtc]

Even if there wasn't a problem in overhauling a First Generation DMU/ bringing it up to modern standards/ training staff/ maintenance etc etc, where would you put one extra DMU, and what real difference would it make?

There's around three hundred DMUs at Northern - one extra DMU would be a drop in the ocean.

Its a bit like the perennial Lymington Pier argument - a lot of hassle to go to for the sake of one extra DMU - similarly not worth the bother in the grand scheme of things.

 

[edwin_m]

Even if there wasn't a problem in overhauling a First Generation DMU/ bringing it up to modern standards/ training staff/ maintenance etc etc, where would you put one extra DMU, and what real difference would it make?

Very true. If I had to nominate somewhere on Northern I'd probably go for Kirby-Wigan. I base this on assuming that it will continue to be a shuttle from Wallgate and the implication of the electrification announcement that Manchester-Bolton-Wigan trains will terminate in North Western. This leaves the Kirby service sharing at Wallgate only with the Southport and perhaps an Atherton line terminator, plus there is some freight to a terminal on the Kirby line, but even so it's probably the most self-contained service on the Northern network.

 

[alwaystouchout]

I often get the impression that proposals to re-enter 1st gen DMUs or Class 47 hauled coaches etc into service are intended to please rail enthusiasts rather than provide any meaningful improvement or change..

 

[bolli]

I often get the impression that proposals to re-enter 1st gen DMUs or Class 47 hauled coaches etc into service are intended to please rail enthusiasts rather than provide any meaningful improvement or change..

Just imagine the "outrage" in the daily mail aimed at northern at introducing 50 year old units...

 

[northwichcat]

Just imagine the "outrage" in the daily mail aimed at northern at introducing 50 year old units...

No they'll moan about South of England passengers paying to bring that unit in to service and again overlook the fact that taking in to account revenue share at Northern and revenue support at Southeastern, the latter is the highest subsidy franchise currently.

 

[SeanG]

Very true. If I had to nominate somewhere on Northern I'd probably go for Kirby-Wigan. I base this on assuming that it will continue to be a shuttle from Wallgate and the implication of the electrification announcement that Manchester-Bolton-Wigan trains will terminate in North Western. This leaves the Kirby service sharing at Wallgate only with the Southport and perhaps an Atherton line terminator, plus there is some freight to a terminal on the Kirby line, but even so it's probably the most self-contained service on the Northern network.

I was always under the impression that by the time all the suburban services from Manchester to Wigan were electrified, Kirkby - Wigan would be also

 

[theblackwatch]

Just imagine the "outrage" in the daily mail aimed at northern at introducing 50 year old units...

Wonder what they would make of a steam loco with one coach working the 08.50 Whitby-Middlesbrough (starting at Grosmont) today then? (See http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=94970 for more info.)

 

[edwin_m]

Who needs a DMU? They can use this if they are desparate enough.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/93042849@N00/4328155665/

 

[anthony263]

I remember a number of years ago when we had a thread on this forum about ATW looking at using class 101's on the Heart of Wales Line to bring some extra cpacity and perhaps more services.

The displaced class 150/153's could then go elsewhere.

The downside as has been mentioned of course will be getting hold of spare parts among many things. We have already seen this with the amount of trouble ATW had to go through keeping 121021 in service before it was shipped of to Chiltern who inccidently do a much better job keeping their class 121's running.

A good refurbishment can do wonders to an older dmu as Chilterns 121's demonstrate so perhaps maybe we could see more heritage stock return to certain routes by I highly doubt it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I read on facebook today that West Coast rail used a steam loco to work a service train on behalf of Northern not sure how true it was but I believe with was on the line to Whitby

 

[noddingdonkey]

Aren't there a few of 141s in preservation? Would they be that desperate?

 

[ECML180]

They use the 142s so they can't be far off

 

[Darandio]

Wonder what they would make of a steam loco with one coach working the 08.50 Whitby-Middlesbrough (starting at Grosmont) today then? (See http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=94970 for more info.)

And as for suggestions of where a solitary DMU should work if it ever did happen, the Esk Valley is perfect. Just like the good old days.

None of the worries about timings, or being in the way like other suggestions.

 

[Yew]

Who needs a DMU? They can use this if they are desparate enough.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/93042849@N00/4328155665/

I went in that!

 

[Class172]

I went in that!

It's almost a "here's one we made earlier" moment being pre-liveried.

 

[EE Andy b1]

Let's go forward not back!

It's just a pity the ROSCOs don't just take a lead role and have various unit types built that they could lease to TOCs as and when required.
Something similar to what goes on in the cival Aircraft industry.
I'm sure there is always going to be the need for these extra units,
especially the rate the number of passengers travelling is expanding.

 

[WestCountry]

How about the Whitby trundle? Low speed limits, very little to bump into, and a local heritage line who already operate regular services over part of the route.

 

[Darandio]

How about the Whitby trundle? Low speed limits, very little to bump into, and a local heritage line who already operate regular services over part of the route.

Exactly what I said half an hour ago!

 

[RichmondCommu]

As Northern seem to be constantly short of stock, if a preservation group managed to recertify a, for example, class 108, would this not be of interest to Northern for a diagram like Preston-Ormskirk? I could see training drivers etc would incur costs.

Just something I was wondering. Any thoughts?

I think a better idea would be two DRS class 37's and three mk2 coaches on the S & C. The enthusiasts would love it and the limited number of stops mean that it should be able to keep time.

 

[anthony263]

I think a better idea would be two DRS class 37's and three mk2 coaches on the S & C. The enthusiasts would love it and the limited number of stops mean that it should be able to keep time.

I dont know I am sure such stock would be wlecomed back on the Rhymney Valley network freeing up a few pacers for use elesewhere.

I am sure the enthusiasts would love it and the town of Bargoed would love it as the enthusiasts would do as they use to and spend a good bit of money in the town

 

[RichmondCommu]

I dont know I am sure such stock would be wlecomed back on the Rhymney Valley network freeing up a few pacers for use elesewhere.

I am sure the enthusiasts would love it and the town of Bargoed would love it as the enthusiasts would do as they use to and spend a good bit of money in the town

I concur but I thought the whole idea was to help out Northern? The chances are ATW would keep those Pacers for themselves!