Worried Sick

[Worried Sick]

Help please,

I recently boarded a train at Crewe travelling to Nantwich, I was in a rush, which I know is not an excuse. I got off at Nantwich and was stopped by Transport Investigations Ltd. They cautioned me and I gave them my correct details. The officer was very polite and I told him I was in a rush and thought I could purchase a ticket on the train. I said the conductor hadn't come round by the time I got off, which again I know is no excuse.

I have never done this before and I am so worried as if I get a criminal conviction I will lose my job.

The officer gave me a piece of paper that is titled.
"Travel on a train without a valid ticket contrary to National Railways Byelaw 18 (2005)"

It also states: "Failure to with the legislation currently in force can sometimes result in prosecution of an offence, by the summons alleging a breach of National Railway Bylaws (2005) or where appropriate, an offence contrary to Section 5 of The Regulation of Railways Act (1989).

I've read through it and the officer said that I will get a letter in about 2-3 weeks.
The officer also said to me that when I receive the letter I can actually call them, admit my error, apologise and pay over the phone with my card details.

I have never done this before and it is the only time I have jumped on the train without a ticket - sods law I know.

Could anyone advise if I can settle this without it going to court as if this happens I will lose my job as a criminal record would be instant dismissal.

Please Help!!!

 

[mikeg]

The officer gave me a piece of paper that is titled.
"Travel on a train without a valid ticket contrary to National Railways Byelaw 18 (2005)"

I'd wait for the letter to be certain, as it may change once investigated, but it sounds like you've been reported for a byelaw breach, which is a non-recordable criminal offence similar to littering or speeding. Whilst it would be possible to go down the Regulation of Railways Act route, this requires intent to avoid paying the fare (although walking past an open ticket office can in many cases count as intent - intent in law is judged by your actions and words, the magistrates are not expected to be mind-readers).

I'd say if it gets as far as court, it'll probably be for a byelaw offence, but wait for the letter to be absolutely sure. It may take a while, they have six months to lay information before the courts.

The officer also said to me that when I receive the letter I can actually call them, admit my error, apologise and pay over the phone with my card details.

Whilst this may be a likely outcome, it is not guaranteed. This would be reaching an out-of-court settlement, which although may be done over the 'phone in some cases, it is probably better done in writing. The ball is however in their court, so to speak, it was you who committed the offence and they have every right to prosecute. That said, it takes a lot of resources and for a first time offence, an out of court settlement is likely.

There's no advice really other than to wait for the letter, but it looks like so far they're planning of using the byelaws so try not to worry too much.

 

[najaB]

Could anyone advise if I can settle this without it going to court as if this happens I will lose my job as a criminal record would be instant dismissal.

<cynic mode>Wow, four out of four.</cynic mode>.

As it says on your paperwork, you committed an offence when you bypassed the ticket vending facilities and boarded the train. However you don't need to worry about losing your job as a conviction under the railway byelaws is a non-recordable offence. This means that even if you were convicted you would not get a criminal record.

That said, there is a reasonable chance that when you next speak with the TOC concerned they may agree to drop the charges. The key is to remain calm, admit the you are in the wrong and accept whatever financial penalty they see fit in order to consider the matter settled.

 

[455driver]

First of all stop worrying, you haven't killed anyone!

Byelaw offences are not recordable, RoRA offences are, as it would appear that they are going for a byelaw offence it wont be recorded so you wont lose your job.

You will be sent a letter in the future (it can take several months due to the number of offenders they have to deal with) which will ask you to write back to them explaining why you didn't buy your ticket before getting on the train (it might be worth writing down what you can remember about the conversation you had with the RPI as a memory jogger).
Be honest (they have heard it all before) and as long as you are not known to them you will probably be offered an 'admin' fee to settle the matter (probably about £100 mark) and that will be the end of it, although your name will go on the naughty list and if you are caught again then it will be off to Court!

These things can get serious but as long as it is your first offence and you passed the attitude test it is normally an offer to settle, you pay up and its all finished with!

 

[island]

All of the above are sensible pieces of advice. You cannot speed things up; it will take as long as it takes.

Needless to say a second or subsequent offence will be a more serious matter, so always buy a ticket before you travel where facilities to do so exist.

 

[thesjd]

Never heard of a revenue block at Nantwich before. It's quite a rural and quiet station in comparison to other stations.

 

[tony6499]

Never heard of a revenue block at Nantwich before. It's quite a rural and quiet station in comparison to other stations.

Probably why they did it, people get out of the habit of buying tickets especially when they're in a hurry and never see anyone at Nantwich so think it is an easy free ride.

 

[Worried Sick]

Thanks all for your messages.
I guess I will have to wait until the letter arrives. Hopefully it will be a slap on the wrists and a fine which I have no problem paying as I realise even though I was in a rush I should have still got a ticket even if it meant missing the train.
I hardly use the train and was probably a bit naïve to think that I could just buy a ticket on the train.
I certainly won't forget to buy a ticket again. Still a bit worried as the inspector that I spoke to said to me a couple of times that there is the ability to pay over the phone if you just confirm what happened. He did say to me words to the effect of "So you did realise you were going to walk off without paying even though you had waited for the conductor" He did ask me if I had the means to pay and I said yes, cash, and I was waiting for the conductor to come through the carriage.

 

[mikeg]

Probably why they did it, people get out of the habit of buying tickets especially when they're in a hurry and never see anyone at Nantwich so think it is an easy free ride.

Agreed. It's probably a bit like Thirsk to Northallerton, a lot of people think 'Well I hardly ever get my ticket checked, what's the point in buying one?'*
Given that there is only a ticket machine in Nantwich there is no facility to buy for a journey just completed, so it's not as if the OP could have intended to pay afterwards, thus I suspect the RPI's suspicion was the OP was chancing it. Nonetheless a benefit of the doubt seems to have been given in that he/she was reported for a byelaw offence rather than a RoRA 1889 offence.

*A lot of people have that attitude, despite the fact you pay to be conveyed, rather than have your ticket checked. Very seldom do you see Revenue Protection staff on the York to Middlesbrough route, but on the train there were some one day. The ticket offices at both Thirsk and Northallerton were open and they seemed to have a field day between the two stations. I was of course sat smugly with my SDR both there and back.

 

[Worried Sick]

Hi all
Not sure it matters but I found tickets from the last time I travelled on the train which was about a month ago. It was the same journey, is it worth keeping hold of these to prove I usually purchase tickets before travel.
I am so worried, it's like the first time I have rushed for a train, thinking I would be ok to pay on board and this happens. I am genuinely remorseful and would do anything to end with an administrative settlement. It was a genuine error / mistake on my part.
I just don't want to have the risk of losing my job because of this.
Sorry I'm a bit of a worrier!!

 

[cjmillsnun]

To be honest, if you don't use the train frequently, it might not be worth showing the older ticket, because if they think you're a regular, they may well go for prosecution.

Don't worry, wait for the letter, reply explaining your actions, be very remorseful, and offer to pay the fare plus reasonable costs incurred pursuing their claim (don't give a figure, they'll come back to you with that).

If you're not known to the railway, this is likely to be enough for a settlement.

 

[clagmonster]

Indeed. I believe that on another thread there was mention of a new scheme whereby Arriva were to charge a £70 admin fee (or similar name) for first offenders, in a similar manner to Northern charging £80 if you wish to read similar threads. I suspect that will happen here, £80 plus the undiscounted walk up fare.

 

[Greenback]

In this case, I don't think it will help you to show them one set of tickets. It might only encourage them to wonder how often you do the journey and how often you buy a ticket. To their eyes, it could be a case of only buying when challenged.

In my view, it's very, very unlikely that you would end up with a criminal record. It's far more likely that you'll receive a demand for payment or you'll be able to avoid court by offering a sum of money to rectify your mistake.

 

[Worried Sick]

Thanks Everyone
I will wait until the letter arrives. I will then apologise saying it was a genuine error on my part (which it was) and I am willing to pay whatever compensation necessary to cover the journey costs and any other administrative fees involved. Hopefully as the majority of you have said hopefully a admin settlement and warning will be the end of it.

 

[Worried Sick]

Hello all
I've just received my letter from Transport Investigations Limited. Basically it says on 10/08/15 that a person giving my name etc showed no valid ticket. The purpose of the letter is to provide the opportunity for me to provide mitigating circumstances.
The next paragraph I will quote word for word:
"The report of this incident indicates that sufficient evidence does exist to warrant a prosecution in accordance with current legislation. This file is presently with our prosecutions team who are considering whether to issue a summons for inclusion in a forthcoming magistrates list. These considerations may include whether any charge should allege an offence against Railways Byelaws (2005) or, The Regulations of Railways Act 1989."
"In any successful Prosecution we will ask the magistrates to award costs and compensation in favour of the rail company. This will be in addition to any fine that the magistrates seek to impose"

Also enclosed within the letter is Arriva Trains Wales - Revenue Enforcement Policy.
They have highlighted certain lines etc. They have highlighted the following:

"In the event of a passenger choosing not to purchase a ticket they will be interviewed"
This happened at the time so I am clear on that. It goes on to say:

"Once a full response has been received the case will be reviewed. All cases will be assessed on their own merit. There are three possible outcomes from any case."
1. Ceasing of proceedings
2. Administrative settlement - They have highlighted this
3. Prosecution

They have also highlighted:
"If this is the first time a customer has been identified within this process they should not normally be taken to prosecution and may be offered an administrative settlement"


Obviously I am going to write back with a letter of mitigation and apologise with the offer of an administrative settlement to cover any costs that the Rail Company see fit to charge.

I suppose I'm looking for some words of comfort here. I obviously don't want a criminal record. They have the option of emailing a scanned signed copy of my letter of mitigation, so I am getting onto this straight away.

Does anyone have any suggestions on my mitigation / apology letter. I realised I was stupid getting on the train without the ticket thinking I could pay on board.

Your views and help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Greenback]

Be brief and succinct. Be honest. Explain why you did you what you did, apologise profusely, say that you've learned an important/valuable lesson, and give them an assurance that you will never do it again.

Don't say how badly you'll be affected by a criminal record should things go to court and that you are desperate to avoid. Instead, offer to cover the costs that the company has incurred for dealing with the matter, and apologise again.

Most importantly, don't do it again as it will be much harder next time to settle out of court. TOC's tend to take a dim view of people who appear to be serial offenders!

As I said previously, I think it's very unlikely that they will proceed to court on this occasion.

 

[crehld]

Be brief and succinct. Be honest. Explain why you did you what you did, apologise profusely, say that you've learned an important/valuable lesson, and give them an assurance that you will never do it again.

Don't say how badly you'll be affected by a criminal record should things go to court and that you are desperate to avoid. Instead, offer to cover the costs that the company has incurred for dealing with the matter, and apologise again.

Sound advice. People on here are normally happy to proof read a letter if you feel comfortable sharing it.

 

[455driver]

Be brief and succinct. Be honest. Explain why you did you what you did, apologise profusely, say that you've learned an important/valuable lesson, and give them an assurance that you will never do it again.

But not too honest that you write that you were hoping to get a free ride as you have done several times before!

Seriously though, they have heard all the 'a criminal record will prevent me working with children/animals/financial institution blah blah blah' so many times it is a bit clichéd now so just stick to bullet points of relevant facts and remember the ABC of writing, Accurate, Brief and Concise, offer to reimburse them for their expenses in dealing with you but don't put an amount down, they will decide if they want to accept an offer and then how much it will be

 

[crehld]

But not too honest that you write that you were hoping to get a free ride as you have done several times before!

On what evidence do you base this accusation?

To the OP. I suggest focusing on the latter half of the above post, which is much more useful and relevant:

Seriously though, they have heard all the 'a criminal record will prevent me working with children/animals/financial institution blah blah blah' so many times it is a bit clichéd now so just stick to bullet points of relevant facts and remember the ABC of writing, Accurate, Brief and Concise, offer to reimburse them for their expenses in dealing with you but don't put an amount down, they will decide if they want to accept an offer and then how much it will be

 

[DaleCooper]

On what evidence do you base this accusation?

Surely it was tongue-in-cheek hence:

Seriously though

 

[Worried Sick]

Thanks folks for all your replies. I have drafted a letter that I am emailing to them tomorrow - they give you the option for that - I will make sure there is a read receipt attached.
Your opinions / advice on the letter would be appreciated. Please see draft letter below.

Dear Sir / Madam

"I wish to offer my sincere apologies for boarding the Arriva Trains Wales train from Crewe Station to Nantwich station on 10/08/2015 without a ticket. I did not pay for my ticket before I boarded the train due to being in a rush, which I now realise is no excuse, thinking I could pay once on board the train. When on the train, I was not approached by a ticket seller, and therefore I did not purchase a ticket on board.
I understand that this was a foolish decision to make, and I am very sorry for the trouble this matter has caused. I have learned a valuable lesson about rail travel.
I can reassure you that in the future I certainly will not board without a ticket when travelling on the rail network as I now realise what a serious matter this is. I am extremely remorseful about the whole situation and would be grateful if the matter could be dealt with by way of administrative settlement covering whatever costs that you see fit to impose to compensate for the fare and any other costs that are incurred in this process.
I can only apologise again unreservedly."

 

[Crossover]

On what evidence do you base this accusation?

I also read it as a tongue-in-cheek comment with the line that followed

Thanks folks for all your replies. I have drafted a letter that I am emailing to them tomorrow - they give you the option for that - I will make sure there is a read receipt attached.
Your opinions / advice on the letter would be appreciated. Please see draft letter below.

I would strongly advise to make any communication by post, and possibly by recorded mail. I am sure that is the advice I have seen previously
E-mail is not a secure means of communication and a read receipt doesn't guarantee it has reached the right person either, just that it has reached somebody

I will leave someone else to comment on the actual content of your letter

 

[Greenback]

To be honest, your letter reads to me as a sort of grudging apology, with an implied excuse that the ticket seller should have come around and sold you a ticket. The wording illustrated by use of 'impose' doesn't really convey the proper meaning in my book.

The first sentence is fine, but amend the second after the word 'rush' to say something like 'which I now realise is against the law.'

The last but one sentence might be better as

'I am extremely sorry to have caused you unnecessary trouble, and I will be happy to pay any money owed to you for the fare and also an amount that will cover the expenses you have incurred in dealing with this matter.'

 

[crehld]

Thanks folks for all your replies. I have drafted a letter that I am emailing to them tomorrow - they give you the option for that - I will make sure there is a read receipt attached.
Your opinions / advice on the letter would be appreciated. Please see draft letter below.

Dear Sir / Madam

"I wish to offer my sincere apologies for boarding the Arriva Trains Wales train from Crewe Station to Nantwich station on 10/08/2015 without a ticket. I did not pay for my ticket before I boarded the train due to being in a rush, which I now realise is no excuse, thinking I could pay once on board the train. When on the train, I was not approached by a ticket seller, and therefore I did not purchase a ticket on board.
I understand that this was a foolish decision to make, and I am very sorry for the trouble this matter has caused. I have learned a valuable lesson about rail travel.
I can reassure you that in the future I certainly will not board without a ticket when travelling on the rail network as I now realise what a serious matter this is. I am extremely remorseful about the whole situation and would be grateful if the matter could be dealt with by way of administrative settlement covering whatever costs that you see fit to impose to compensate for the fare and any other costs that are incurred in this process.
I can only apologise again unreservedly."

A good start, but I think you need to try and adopt a slightly more professional tone. This will reassure the reader that you've given thought to the content, and therefore the apology. Based upon your initial draft and the information you've given elsewhere in the thread, the following might be a useful starting point for a redraft:

Dear Sir or Madam,

Many thanks for your letter dated XXXXXX and offering me the opportunity to respond.

On 10 August 2015 I boarded the XX:XX Arriva Trains Wales service from Crewe to Nantwich. As I was in a rush I boarded this service without having purchased a ticket at Crewe, thinking I could buy one on board. Upon arrival at Nantwich I had still not purchased a ticket on board and was met by a member of staff on the platform who informed me I had broken the law and took my details.

I now realise that having boarded the train at Crewe without buying a ticket was wrong and against the law, and that being in a rush to catch the next train is not a valid excuse. I would like to offer my unreserved apologies for my actions and thank the officer at Nantwich for reminding me of the legal requirement to always purchase a ticket before boarding a train. I would also like to offer my reassurances that I have learned a lesson and will not board a train again without purchasing a ticket.

I am aware that my actions have cost Arriva Trains Wales financially. As suggested in your letter, I would like remedy this situation and avoid it being escalated further by way of an administrative settlement. I would like to offer payment of the appropriate outstanding fare and to cover any additional administrative costs you have incurred as a result of my inappropriate actions.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully,

XXXXXX
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Surely it was tongue-in-cheek hence:

I also read it as a tongue-in-cheek comment with the line that followed

Ah, my mistake. I had incorrectly assumed the purpose of this sub-forum was to offer advice and assistance, not tongue-in-cheek comments on worried posters' situations. Apologies.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I would strongly advise to make any communication by post, and possibly by recorded mail. I am sure that is the advice I have seen previously
E-mail is not a secure means of communication and a read receipt doesn't guarantee it has reached the right person either, just that it has reached somebody

If they have actively invited a reply via a scanned in letter sent by email and given you a email address to respond to then I see no problem with doing this, providing your scanned in letter is presented professionally as a posted letter would be. But for completeness I would also send a letter and make a note in your email that you are also sending a copy by post. First class post with a certificate of posting to prove you've actually sent it will suffice, unless you want added reassurance to make sure they have definitely received it.

 

[Greenback]

That's a well worded letter, crehld. I think it works better than trying to reword Worried Sick's original draft as I did.

The primary purpose of this particular sub forum is to offer advice and assistance, but there's no problem with a bit of levity now and again.

 

[455driver]

Surely it was tongue-in-cheek hence:

It was but obviously sone people are a bit short and it went straight over their head.:roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That's a well worded letter, crehld. I think it works better than trying to reword Worried Sick's original draft as I did.

The primary purpose of this particular sub forum is to offer advice and assistance, but there's no problem with a bit of levity now and again.

I agree that is a very good reply, it is short but concise and covers everything.
If the OP could comply with what is written then I am sure a suitable response from ATW will wend it's way back and a cheque in the post will complete the incident, just remember to always buy your ticket before boarding in future.

As for my comment above, it was meant to lighten the moment as the OP seems rather stressed about it all.

 

[Worried Sick]

Hi Folks
Just thought I would update you on the situation. I sent my letter to Transport Investigations Limited explaining I was at fault and was very regretful about the whole situation.
I received a letter back on Friday explaining that I could have been prosecuted under either the Bylaw 18 or Railways Regulation Act.
This time they have seen fit to charge me an administrative settlement of £73. and issue a final warning.
I can guarantee you that I will never travel without a ticket in future as I wouldn't want to go through this again.
Strangely enough when I have used the train since from Nantwich the ticket machine has been out of order. I have taken a picture of the machine, whether that would help if I was stopped again I don't know.
They are putting barriers up at Crewe now. I'm not sure what to do in future if I travel and the machine is out of order? Do I take a picture?
Anyway, thanks for all your help and input over this situation it has helped so much. A great forum for people who are unsure over similar situations.

 

[34D]

Thanks for updating us: a good result.

And yes, taking a picture of a machine would be advisable.

 

[crehld]

Glad to hear it's all resolved! Thanks for keeping us updated.

For an out of order machine at Nantwich then taking a photo is a good precautionary measure. If the machine was out of order and you weren't able to get a ticket from the guard you shouldn't have a problem at the barriers at Crewe if you just explain the situation and offer to pay there.

 

[Clip]

Also if there is a help point then use that to report it as they may not know and you will probably get authority to travel and also a message should go out explaining the machine is out of order to all staff