Worried about fare evasion southeastern trains

[Very worried]

Hi all, I'm looking for some advice or guidance. My wife if a foreign national ad has been living in the UK for two years and is an infrequent train traveller. She was going to up London thus afternoon wit our daughter so went through the side gate as she has a pushchair. The barrier inspector stop her and asked to see her photo card as she had presented a gold gard (annual ticket).

She was unable to present a photo card as she had taken my card from my trousers without telling me. She was under the impression that gold cards were transferable like we had done whilst overseas, and said that she was planning on travelling on my ticket. She was then cautioned and told to purchase a ticket herself. My card was not given back to her so I no longer have it either. I believe that I will receive a letter asking why I gave her my annual ticket to travel on, where I shall be spacing he above.


I would be grateful for any advice or guidance from anyone ere in what the likely outcome of this situation might be. I am hoping that after receiving my exaltation they will just give her a penalty notice or a fine out of court but from what I have read previously is that she is likely to get criminal record and a hefty fine.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

 

[telstarbox]

Did all this happen before your wife boarded the train to London?

 

[Very worried]

It was she went through the barrier on her way out. The guard opened the gate for her and as she walked through, he asked for the photo card.

 

[telstarbox]

In London, after she had already been on the train?

 

[Very worried]

Hi, no she was at the start of her journey. We live outside of London and she was going up for the day. I dropped her off at the station in the morning and was stopped at the barrier before even reaching the platforms.

 

[maniacmartin]

If we could know what the station was, then we could look up if it's platforms were compulsory ticket areas. As this was before she had boarded a train, it could be that she was intervened before she'd had a chance to commit an offence.

 

[tony6499]

If we could know what the station was, then we could look up if it's platforms were compulsory ticket areas. As this was before she had boarded a train, it could be that she was intervened before she'd had a chance to commit an offence.

Going through the barriers surely demonstrates intent ?

 

[Very worried]

Manicmartin, it was dartford station. I am hoping the they show compassion and not take to court as im sure she has learnt her lesson and is extremely concerned and hope to settle out of court

 

[island]

If we could know what the station was, then we could look up if it's platforms were compulsory ticket areas. As this was before she had boarded a train, it could be that she was intervened before she'd had a chance to commit an offence.

No need. Southeastern's PF scheme says it does not create any CTAs.

The OP's wife has committed an offence under Railway Byelaw 21 (2) (receiving a partly-used ticket with the intention that it be used for travel). This can carry a fine of up to £1,000 as I understand it. Southeastern may decide that it can be convinced not to prosecute the offence on receipt of a sum of money in respect of its administrative costs. This offence does not require the ticket to have been used for travel.

The OP does not appear to have committed any offence. However, getting his Gold Card back may take some palaver.

 

[maniacmartin]

I've just had a look at the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 and it has this clause (my bold):

5 Penalty for avoiding payment of fare.
[...]
(3)If any person—
(a)Travels or attempts to travel on a railway without having previously paid his fare, and with intent to avoid payment thereof; or
[...]
he shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding [...]

So it would seem to me that the OP's wife could also be prosecuted under the Regulation of Railways Act

There have been a few similar threads on using a partner's season ticket lately, and in those threads the TOC (Train Operating Company) has written to the person concerned and the season ticket holder, demanding that the season ticket holder either:
* admits that they were aware and consented to the partner using the ticket (thus also opening themselves up to prosecution)
or
* files a report with the police stating that the ticket was stolen by the partner

 

[island]

* admits that they were aware and consented to the partner using the ticket (thus also opening themselves up to prosecution)
or
* files a report with the police stating that the ticket was stolen by the partner

These are not mutually exhaustive. Theft in England and Wales requires an intent to permanently deprive another person of possession, according to my Blackstone police manual.

 

[Squaddie]

She was under the impression that gold cards were transferable like we had done whilst overseas...

This is not directly concerned with the topic, but I'm intrigued to know which country allows someone to travel on someone else's season ticket. In every case I'm aware of (which, admittedly, is limited to a small number of countries) such tickets are non-transferable.

 

[455driver]

The Op doesnt say it is allowed abroad just that they had done it!

 

[paddington]

This is not directly concerned with the topic, but I'm intrigued to know which country allows someone to travel on someone else's season ticket. In every case I'm aware of (which, admittedly, is limited to a small number of countries) such tickets are non-transferable.

The TTC Metropass is transferrable.

 

[sheff1]

This is not directly concerned with the topic, but I'm intrigued to know which country allows someone to travel on someone else's season ticket. In every case I'm aware of (which, admittedly, is limited to a small number of countries) such tickets are non-transferable.

Season tickets in Skåne (southern Sweden) are transferable, inculding those with cross border validity into Denmark.

It is possible to share season tickets in some parts of the the UK - South Yorkshire is one example.

 

[tony6499]

I think the fact that you need a photo card might be a clue that tickets can't be shared and if someone can take a ticket from a pocket why didn't they take the photocard with it ?

 

[rdwarr]

Presumably because, believing the tickets to be transferable, they had no idea a photocard would be required.

 

[Very worried]

Thank you all for your comments. We were overseas where you could buy a ticket and anyone could use it, my wife assumed that this was the same but just purchased on an annual basis.

I just hope that when my explanation letter is received, they understand the confusion, and will settle out of court and no record will be given to my wife, who is also trying to look for a job.

 

[MikeWh]

Manicmartin, it was dartford station. I am hoping the they show compassion and not take to court as im sure she has learnt her lesson and is extremely concerned and hope to settle out of court

Slightly off-topic, but depending on where you come from around Dartford have you considered taking a bus to Crayford and commuting from there instead? A zones 1-6 travelcard season is cheaper than a Dartford to London terminals only season and includes travel on the 96/428/492 buses between Dartford and Crayford.

 

[34D]

Season tickets in Skåne (southern Sweden) are transferable, inculding those with cross border validity into Denmark.

It is possible to share season tickets in some parts of the the UK - South Yorkshire is one example.

And now West Yorkshire, with the monthly and weekly M-cards being transferable.

 

[jon0844]

Presumably because, believing the tickets to be transferable, they had no idea a photocard would be required.

The photocard ID number is written on the ticket though.

 

[Very worried]

We were in Belgium last and you could by season tickets and change them between people, so she thought the same would happen here. An expensive lesson to learn. Does anyone now, what the usual fine is for first timers?

 

[island]

You don't want a fine, that would imply a court case and possibly (depending on what law is used to prosecute your wife) a criminal record. The fee to keep it out of court varies, but is often in the region of £100. What Southeastern will accept in the case is of course unknown yet.

 

[Very worried]

Island, would you be able to suggest some wording, instead of paying a fine - would settle out of court or settle without going to court work?

 

[Greenback]

There ar eno guarantees, but in many instances the TOC will see it advantageous to take a cash settlement along with a suitable apology and an assurance that the lesson has been learnt and the incident will not be repeated.

 

[Deerfold]

And now West Yorkshire, with the monthly and weekly M-cards being transferable.

Rather like the 80s Metropass - though this was more expensive than the equivalent Metrocard.

 

[Clip]

And now West Yorkshire, with the monthly and weekly M-cards being transferable.

Interesting stuff but have they thought about how to tackle fare evasion on trains with this card yet? Whilst not everyone in this country is going to try it on we all know there are people from all walks of life and not just the scruffs who try it on so how will they stop 2 people from using it on the same train then?

 

[Captain Chaos]

Interesting stuff but have they thought about how to tackle fare evasion on trains with this card yet? Whilst not everyone in this country is going to try it on we all know there are people from all walks of life and not just the scruffs who try it on so how will they stop 2 people from using it on the same train then?

Good point. Would it be possible to have handheld readers that record the card number checked and store them temporarily (say 500 tickets or when the user clears the memory)? Then if the card number has been read earlier it will flag up?

 

[Clip]

Good point. Would it be possible to have handheld readers that record the card number checked and store them temporarily (say 500 tickets or when the user clears the memory)? Then if the card number has been read earlier it will flag up?

As with the ongoing thread about smartphones, then yes they could program it so that if it picked up the same card within a certain amount of time then to investigate. They just need to think about it first which is why I asked if they had done.

 

[Very worried]

Hi all, We have received our letter stating the following:

"On xxx a person giving the above name and address was questions by a member of rail staff with regard to an alleged incident on Southeastern Railway. The matter has been provisionally authorised for prosecution.

Before i proceed further, i invite you to respond by completing in full the bottom section of this letter, making any comment about the incident on the reverse, and send it to the above address within seven days."

The letter was sent 4 days ago and i have tired to contact the Prosecutions Office to explain about a potential delay in responding. Does anyone have a phone number for the Southeastern Prosecutions Office, in Tooley street?

It asks for name address, DoB, phone number occupation and NI number. Is there any reason as to why they need to know the occupation and NI number?

We will be writing a letter to explain to situation, but would anyone have any advice or wording that would someone could suggest we use when asking about a potential out of court settlement?

Also the start of the reference number is - STM.... Does this give any clue as to the type of prosecution they are seeking.

Thanks