• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Worcestershire Parkway split ticket

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dren Ahmeti

Member
Joined
17 Oct 2017
Messages
602
Location
Reading
Hi all,
I might be travelling to Duddeston from Bristol Parkway and back on the 11th Feb, and researching some split tickets, I’ve found a good deal:
CDR BPW-WOP (16-25) £9.75
CDR WOP-DUD (16-25) £6.55
Total = £16.30

My only issue is that if Worcestershire Parkway isn’t open by then, would my tickets still be honoured, as the itinerary is being offered and can be sold to me?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

221129

Established Member
Joined
21 Mar 2011
Messages
6,515
Location
Sunny Scotland
Presumably it is XC that you'll be travelling with during the split? So I would seek guidance from them. Officially you are supposed to stop at the split point with that combination so if it doesnt stop due to the station not being open then officially the tickets arent valid. However given the unique situation XC would probably allow it if asked.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
78,606
Location
Yorkshire
Hi all,
I might be travelling to Duddeston from Bristol Parkway and back on the 11th Feb, and researching some split tickets, I’ve found a good deal:
CDR BPW-WOP (16-25) £9.75
CDR WOP-DUD (16-25) £6.55
Total = £16.30

My only issue is that if Worcestershire Parkway isn’t open by then, would my tickets still be honoured, as the itinerary is being offered and can be sold to me?
My advice would be to purchase these tickets as one journey from an accredited split ticket provider.

If it was me, I would be purchasing e-tickets from a supplier who issues one PDF document with all the e-tickets (one ticket per page). I would stick to the booked itinerary, which is evidence of a legally binding contract.

If I encountered a problem I would either choose not to pay or I would pay under duress by credit card. I would write to the operator who incorrectly charged me, and request a refund. If this was not forthcoming I would refer them to the ombudsman and enlist the assistance of the retailer in resolving the matter. As a last resort, I would instruct my credit card issuer to perform a chargeback on the incorrect charge by the relevant train company for any additional fares I was incorrectly sold.
 

kieron

Established Member
Joined
22 Mar 2012
Messages
3,293
Location
Connah's Quay
These are walk-up tickets, so you don't actually need to buy them until the station opens. If it doesn't open, you could just buy something else.

I'd definitely try asking Crosscountry first, though. If you can use tickets to Worcs Parkway anyway, it would be better than any of the alternatives I can find.
 

Wallsendmag

Established Member
Joined
11 Dec 2014
Messages
6,293
Location
Wallsend or somewhere on the ECML
Hi all,
I might be travelling to Duddeston from Bristol Parkway and back on the 11th Feb, and researching some split tickets, I’ve found a good deal:
CDR BPW-WOP (16-25) £9.75
CDR WOP-DUD (16-25) £6.55
Total = £16.30

My only issue is that if Worcestershire Parkway isn’t open by then, would my tickets still be honoured, as the itinerary is being offered and can be sold to me?
Are you travelling before 10:00 ?
 

Dren Ahmeti

Member
Joined
17 Oct 2017
Messages
602
Location
Reading
These are walk-up tickets, so you don't actually need to buy them until the station opens. If it doesn't open, you could just buy something else.

I'd definitely try asking Crosscountry first, though. If you can use tickets to Worcs Parkway anyway, it would be better than any of the alternatives I can find.
I’ve gone ahead and booked them, even as walk-ups, for the itienary as per @yorkie’s advice, will keep people updated if WOP does open by then, or, if not, the stops are made unadvertised.
 

Pumperkin

Member
Joined
15 Jan 2019
Messages
168
Just heard on the radio WOP not open until May so looks like you'll have to plan around it :(
 

Shrewbly

Member
Joined
21 Jan 2017
Messages
141
It almost certainly will open before May (though you never know). I think the May thing has come from a local news reporter who looked at a December to May timetable, didn't see Worcestershire Parkway in it, then wrote a story without bothering to check the facts!
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
78,606
Location
Yorkshire
Just heard on the radio WOP not open until May so looks like you'll have to plan around it :(
There is nothing to 'plan around'

The train will run, it won't call at the split point, but the tickets remain valid.

These are walk-up tickets, so you don't actually need to buy them until the station opens. If it doesn't open, you could just buy something else.

I'd definitely try asking Crosscountry first, though. If you can use tickets to Worcs Parkway anyway, it would be better than any of the alternatives I can find.
There is no need to ask XC if they will comply with contract law :)
 

Pumperkin

Member
Joined
15 Jan 2019
Messages
168
There is nothing to 'plan around'

The train will run, it won't call at the split point, but the tickets remain valid.

Sorry Yes you're quite right Yorkie. I stupidly lumped this thread in the same category as mine (journey starting at WOP). Might be ambitious to try and alight/egress at WOP on the 15th! :)
 

Paul Kelly

Verified Rep - BR Fares
Joined
16 Apr 2010
Messages
4,235
Location
Reading
The train will run, it won't call at the split point, but the tickets remain valid.
I think this sentence could confuse people. NRCoT condition 14 is clear that the train must stop, so the tickets are not valid. I think I know what you are getting at but I think you should spell it out for the benefit of the forum!
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
27,365
Location
Bolton
I agree that there are competing contractual positions about using more than one ticket joining at a station where the train does not call in this case. On the balance of probability, I would say that use of the tickets is permitted, because that was the information provided at the time of booking, and there has been no agreement to have that changed; this is all that's required from a contract law perspective. It is not however something that I would describe as being beyond doubt because it still contradicts NRCoT. The point does not need to be proven beyond doubt.

From an entirely practical perspective, if you've booked a ticket to a station and the company can't convey you to that station by train because of a problem with the building (which is what is happening in this case, their supplier Network Rail and its contractors have run into difficulty signing off the work) they would need to make some kind of alternative arrangements. They could re-book you onto alternative trains and a different route (which would probably cause them to become liable for delay compensation), or, in this case, they could simply allow you to travel exceptionally and not call at the closed station (which would probably get them out of having to pay compensation for the delay they're causing). I would give the company the choice between these options if it were me, and I would be interested to see which they chose.

So one way or the other the company cannot deny you the right to reach your destination just because the station didn't open. I imagine the companies will be entitled to some form of compensation for the infrastructure to support their accepted timetable not being provided too, so it's only fair that they make special accommodation for consumers.
 
Last edited:

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
78,606
Location
Yorkshire
Ok the customer has a valid contract (due to having been executed in compliance with the law) for conveyance from origin to destination (at as close as practicable to the originally booked times) even if the train company changes aspects of the service such as removing an intermediate calling point.

Other examples of where a contract remains a valid contract include where the train is retimed, cancelled (you can take a train before , or after, subject to any operator restrictions as applicable) or diverted.

In the case of splitting at WOP, the purchase of new tickets as described wouldn't be allowed once the train is no longer advertised to call there, but the concept of a valid contract remains in place for pre purchased tickets which were valid tickets at the time of purchase.

The potential confusion here is that a valid contract under contract law is not quite the same concept as determining validity of a ticket (or combination of tickets), at the time of use, if the terms and timetable advertised at the time of use are considered without knowledge of the terms of the contract.

In other words, a system which determines validity of a fare may return an 'invalid' response but that doesn't invalidate the contract in any way.

Other examples where the two concepts can be at odds with each other are where a ticket is used for a route that deemed (rightly or wrongly) to be a valid route by a booking engine at the time of sale, but not deemed valid by another party at the time of use.

The National Rail Enquiries site does state that tickets purchased online are valid by the route shown on the itinerary; this wording was added to clarify that contract law does apply (which is staying the obvious) though I would like to see the wording changed to ensure there is no room for misinterpretation by people who are less familiar with contract law. Furthermore I would like this to be enshrined in the NRCoT, though the omission of such clarification in no way alters the legal position.

If a ticket inspector believes tickets are invalid there are procedures to handle this, which involve investigating the cause of the issue, but do not involve charging the passenger any additional fare, in compliance with the law.
 

Paul Kelly

Verified Rep - BR Fares
Joined
16 Apr 2010
Messages
4,235
Location
Reading
That is much more helpful. I think the nuances of this is something that isn't discussed enough on the forum! I think you're saying that the contract law means the tickets should be honoured because they were purchased in conjunction with an itinerary, and the passenger holds evidence of the itinerary? Or is it enough that the trains were advertised to call at WOP at the time of purchase, even if the passenger bought the tickets standalone (e.g. from a booking office) and didn't obtain an itinerary showng the call at WOP?
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
78,606
Location
Yorkshire
It's both.

If you simply bought the tickets today without an itinerary then they are valid as the terms are as applicable today.

However evidencing that could be tricky.

Alternatively if you obtain an itinerary for a journey from an accredited supplier (e.g. SplitSave on SWR where the train was never booked to call at the split point) then that is also a valid contract.

So if you have tickets that were correctly deemed valid at the time of purchase and you have evidence of this contract in the form of an itinerary , issued in conjunction with the purchase of the tickets, then you are indisputably covered under contract law.

It is a lot easier to say 'i am following this itinerary' and hand over the itinerary than it is to argue your case in any other circumstances.
 

paddington

Member
Joined
19 Feb 2013
Messages
964
Why are tickets to WOP being sold if it is not certain the station will open? If someone buys at ticket to or from WOP and the station is not open, how should they obtain the travel they are contractually entitled to?
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
78,606
Location
Yorkshire
Why are tickets to WOP being sold if it is not certain the station will open? If someone buys at ticket to or from WOP and the station is not open, how should they obtain the travel they are contractually entitled to?
That's probably worthy of an entirely new thread.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top