Wood burning stove advice

[Wilts Wanderer]

Hello

I have an existing wood burning stove in my home, which pre-dates when I bought the house (2013) and certainly the HETAS regulations in 2015. My property is an old mid-terrace, built circa 1880, originally with large open fireplaces in four different rooms, linked to a combined chimney flue. Three are now sealed & ventilated, the downstairs living room is open and contains a medium-sized wood burning stove. When we moved in we were told the stove and chimney had recently been serviced and that we should have the chimney swept every couple of years if burning wood, as the resin can build up.

Having only used the stove a few times each winter when it’s actually been cold, and not since 2018/19, I today had a chimney sweep round to do the necessary. We’ve previously had no issue with sweeps, but today he said that our stove is not HETAS compliant, lacks a closure plate at the bottom, and may not be properly installed / chimney lined correctly, and therefore he was unwilling to do the work. It occurs to me, why is this only a problem now - don’t existing woodburner stoves have grandfather rights? Equally I don’t understand why he still couldn’t sweep the chimney as the resin deposits will be there either way.

Does anyone have any knowledge / experience with this sort of thing? The stove does just sit where the old fireplace was, with a 125mm diameter flue bracketed to the four walls of the chimney and disappearing up for unknown distance. It’s always drawn well and doesn’t leak smoke into the house at all. We periodically get birds dropping material down from sitting on the chimney pots above, and heavy rain does get down a bit and causes a little superficial rust on the stove’s heat plate.

Just wondering if I got the world’s most awkward sweep or if we should actually get it professionally looked at / improved, which will likely cost hundreds of quid.

 

[NSEFAN]

From Jan 2022, new stoves have to use more efficient designs. An old design like yours certainly wouldn't be allowed to be installed now. That said, it's not fully clear if old installations have to be updated. Will ask my sweep what the new rules are.

Edit: there is a difference between an installation meeting the latest regs and being unsafe. Did the sweep offer to do some form of inspection to find out if it is actually unsafe?

 

[seagull]

I'd find a new sweep. Our previous house had a very old stove which still worked well, and the sweep told us of the various things which a modern stove would have improved, but at no point refused to do the job he came for.
He said that as long as rope seals were intact, the liner was intact, and we had a carbon monoxide detector, he was perfectly happy to clean the chimney.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Sounds a bit like the experience a friend had with leaking gutters. He was told they would need replacing and duly got 3 quotes. I then went up a ladder and cleaned the gutters - they were very full of dirt. No problems since for about 6 years.

As for a stove etc. My main priority would be safety. I would strongly recommend a Carbon Monoxide sensor/alarm in the room. Even if you get a brand new top of the range stove something can still go wrong. It could be installed incorrectly or subsequently get damaged so have and alarm that will detect problems.

 

[dgl]

My gran had a similar problem with the people who used to service her boiler.
When it went wrong they told her that they could try a £500? part that might not work or they could replace the whole system and change to a combi boiler for £3000.
Someone at church recommended someone else who had a look and it turned out the fault was a part had become ditched shutting down the boiler, all the fix cost was labour in the end.

 

[Cowley]

I'd find a new sweep. Our previous house had a very old stove which still worked well, and the sweep told us of the various things which a modern stove would have improved, but at no point refused to do the job he came for.
He said that as long as rope seals were intact, the liner was intact, and we had a carbon monoxide detector, he was perfectly happy to clean the chimney.

I’d agree with you @seagull. We have an oldish burner that’s been in the house a long time with a concrete lined chimney (actually it’s slightly different to concrete but it was the best you could get twenty odd years ago) and we basically get the chimney swept regularly and service the burner every year with new rope, fire bricks and anything else that needs doing to keep it efficient and air tight.

Ours is a Woodwarm which is an excellent make, but if we ever have to replace it then yes, we’d have to do a lot of work including re-lining the chimney.

 

[NSEFAN]

Hello

I have an existing wood burning stove in my home, which pre-dates when I bought the house (2013) and certainly the HETAS regulations in 2015. My property is an old mid-terrace, built circa 1880, originally with large open fireplaces in four different rooms, linked to a combined chimney flue. Three are now sealed & ventilated, the downstairs living room is open and contains a medium-sized wood burning stove. When we moved in we were told the stove and chimney had recently been serviced and that we should have the chimney swept every couple of years if burning wood, as the resin can build up.

Having only used the stove a few times each winter when it’s actually been cold, and not since 2018/19, I today had a chimney sweep round to do the necessary. We’ve previously had no issue with sweeps, but today he said that our stove is not HETAS compliant, lacks a closure plate at the bottom, and may not be properly installed / chimney lined correctly, and therefore he was unwilling to do the work. It occurs to me, why is this only a problem now - don’t existing woodburner stoves have grandfather rights? Equally I don’t understand why he still couldn’t sweep the chimney as the resin deposits will be there either way.

Does anyone have any knowledge / experience with this sort of thing? The stove does just sit where the old fireplace was, with a 125mm diameter flue bracketed to the four walls of the chimney and disappearing up for unknown distance. It’s always drawn well and doesn’t leak smoke into the house at all. We periodically get birds dropping material down from sitting on the chimney pots above, and heavy rain does get down a bit and causes a little superficial rust on the stove’s heat plate.

Just wondering if I got the world’s most awkward sweep or if we should actually get it professionally looked at / improved, which will likely cost hundreds of quid.

Spoke to my sweep about this. He suggests that the person you had visit was perhaps confused about the new emissions regulations (required for new installations and new stoves only).

For existing installations, providing that there is no risk of fire or poisoning the user with smoke or CO, then non-compliance with new rules can be acceptable. If there is any doubt as to the quality of the liner, then this can be verified with a smoke test. He says that he does sometimes have to condemn old installations it they are badly worn out and pose a threat to the life of the user, but not having HETAS approval does not mean it's unsafe!

Definitely worth getting a second opinion!

 

[Kez]

I always sweep my chimney ( with flue lining) myself. It's really not that hard and you can pick rods up cheapish.

Do you not have a cowel on the chimney to stop water ingress ?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Thank you all for the helpful replies and advice. My neighbour has recommended a local sweep they’ve used without issue, similarly suggesting that the previous person was confused by the new regulations.

I always sweep my chimney ( with flue lining) myself. It's really not that hard and you can pick rods up cheapish.

Do you not have a cowel on the chimney to stop water ingress ?

I don’t know whether the chimney is cowelled, it certainly has pots but the flue has a dog-leg midway up and therefore it’s impossible to see to the top. I suspect this is why the stove flue only goes a way up, as it would be very difficult to install a similar dog leg.

We should definitely get a CO monitor, that is excellent advice thank you.

 

[Kez]

The grandfather rights you allude to, do circumvent the need for a CO monitor, as it is now law but it is a must really.

I would suspect the sweep is concerned that there is leakage between the chimney stacks if the chimney doesn't have a flue liner. I think I read that all chimneys older than 1930s should have one, which means that you should.