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Wonderfully offensive article in the Torygraph

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Failed Unit

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Interesting way of looking at it. But to me unless we had a specific referendum on the issue you can't say we voted on it. But you are right you may only agree with 6/10 items in a party manifesto and maybe totally oppose 1/10. It is the balance of how much you disagree with the other parties. 1992 it was the fear of labour (rightly or wrongly) that got major re-elected rather than the privatisation of the railways. That was unfortunately just part of the package.

If you look at the last election Labour had the best transport minister but to me that was about all Labour had to offer. You never know how long Adonis would be in the post even if they had won. We could have got another Stephen byres or alister darling.
 
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Metroland

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In the late 1980s/early 1990s, according to polls, most people wanted rail privatisation.

The perception of BR was not good, late trains, curly sandwiches, and the wrong kind of snow jokes were all the rage. It was viewed that BR was deeply inefficient, over unionised, over manned, run by idiots.

The truth was it was one of the most efficient railway's in Europe, the only intercity service to make a profit and NSE and freight made a profit some years too! The workforce was overworked, with 100 hour weeks very common, and underpaid. The wages were appalling and BR had a lot of trouble attracting people to some posts from about the 1960s onwards. It was run on the cheap, because the governments of the day did not want to invest anything into it and thought the private car and buses would take the load.

Politics and decisions, to an extent, have always been run with an awful lot of presumption and ideology, with far too many decisions based of perception. Certainly despite all the claims the media have no influence, are generally wide of the mark, and the influential papers were very much for privatisation and they influence much other public thinking and policy making.

Even now, it's noteworthy most people do not view transport (and certainly rail) with any sort of importance, especially in government, preferring touchy feely stuff like Heath and Education. And this is the problem BR had to face.
 

Old Timer

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Whilst John Major hung his hat on Railway Privatisation, like much else during his time as PM he managed to end up making a complete mess of it.

Until we experienced Bliar and Brown I did not think we could have had a more incompetent PM, now with recent experience I think we can put Major down as being "too nice". He did not have the ruthless streak that is required of a good PM.

I believe he regarded Railway privatisation as the thing by which he would be remembered, and indeed he has, but for all the wrong reasons.

There are a couple of matters of historical fact which tend to be overlooked deliberately by those who wish to portray Privatisation as a wholly Conservative supported idea.

Firstly, as I have said many, many times over and over again, the money needed to bring about modernisation of the Railway network could never have been afforded from taxation income alone, this made it inevitable that the Private Sector would need to be involved.

Secondly the EU Directive was ringing the doorbell and the Government needed to move ahead with compliance. The only European Country up to them which had Privatised a state run system which appeared to be running well, was Sweden, and it is upon the Swedish model that the UK Privatisation was implemented. It was NOT something that the Conservatives dreamed up, indeed there was considerable internal opposition to Privatisation behind the scenes and in some cases openly (Thatcher/Ridley, being good examples).

The Treasury wanted a Privatisation model that removed as much State support as possible and one that would increase taxation revenue, hence they made the strong argument about breaking up the Railway into the many different Business Units. Sold off they would result in multiple taxation revenue income streams, with the increased costs of management and profit being gained through "efficiency" savings.

What of course the Civil Service did not understand or was incapable of understanding, was that we had already squeezed the orange dry. We were not as incompetent as Major alluded to, because we had managed for years to continue to run with ever decreasing real-term increases, and thus we had brought in all the efficiencies that were there.

This of course was something that was learnt the hard way by some of the Investors, especially SWT in the early days.

Labour of course who made much of immediate Nationalisation (the Friday after the Election was the boast by those such as Bliar and Prescott in the months leading to the Election when asked) but they already knew that they could NEVER do this because of the money required. Instead they went even further than Major ever promised to do, and not only sold every remaining part of the Railway off, but also in the next 13 years they sold just about every part of our public services, including large parts of our non-operational defence, air traffic control, research facilities, etc, etc. Indeed looked at today the biggest Privatisers every was actually the last three Labour Governments who have sold the largest proportion of our national assets off, including much of our NHS property.

It is very fair to say that Railway privatisation was a very key and fundamental part of the 1992 election manifesto, and for those who were around at that time, they should be able to recall the continued criticism and castigation of the Railways not only in the Right Wing press but also in the Left wing press as well who certainly left no opportunity to castigate and deride the Railways, and indeed the Left Wing press was always worse at having a go.

Ironically it was Linda Lee Potter (a long term critic of the Railways) and a Daily Mail writer who first started the criticism of Railway Privatisation, indeed the Daily Mail became very critical of it. That of course stopped when Dacre a big chum of Gordon Brown became editor and led it down the road it has taken in the last two decades.

Labour had 14 years and many opportunities to re-nationalise, look at SET for example, but never took any opportunity, indeed in the case of SET which was being run again by BR, Bliar and Brown actively prevented the BR Management team from being allowed to bid for the Franchise themselves or have any input to any Franchise offer.

I agree that the way Privatisation developed later was completely and has done much damage to the Industry but remember that the Railways were Private under the Conservatives for at the very most 3 years (Railtrack 1994) whereas they were under Labour control for 14 years, and during this period the greatest majority of the Industry was Privatised.

I think that says much, and maybe we can get away from this tortured Political Dogma of blaming the Conservatives for being the only Party to carry the blame. They only had the Swedish model to go on. Labour with the benefit of emerging experience had many, many opportunities to change things as and when re-franchising came around. Their only contribution was to cynically destroy GNER (as the only franchise to pay into the Government coffers) as a result of Dogma, Political in-fighting and point scoring, personal grudges, Political preferrment.
 

tbtc

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Interesting way of looking at it. But to me unless we had a specific referendum on the issue you can't say we voted on it

Well, as far as I am aware, we've only ever had one direct referendum in England (on EEC membership in 1975) - I don't think the people have ever been directly consulted on anything else, so you could argue that nobody voted for the NHS to be created, nobody voted for the privatisations in the 1980s etc. However, we *did* vote for parties which promised they would do these things in their manifestos.

The upshot is that, whilst I was against rail privatisation, the Tories clearly wanted it (since it was promised in their manifesto) and the public clearly wanted the Tories, so the public did vote for it in my eyes.

I make a distinction in areas like the coalition's rise in VAT, or Labour's war with Iraq - neither of which were in the manifestos, so I would never claim people voted for these things.

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have had additional referenda on constitutional matters (devolution etc), which is why I said "England" above.

There will be a referendum on voting reform in UK elections this May (as far as I know).
 

jon0844

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Old Timer, please stop posting detailed facts as it's not helping those who wish to bash the Tories.

Going by what I can see on Facebook, it's the evil Tories who are now forcing through cuts and VAT increases that are 'showing their true colours', with Ed Miliband saying we'll all spend an extra £7.50 a week (so, that means we all spend £300 a week on VATable goods?) thanks to the Tories.

Has everyone forgotten the last 13 years? Seriously, are we going to convince ourselves that it was actually not too bad? Jesus, the electorate really will vote Labour back in power come 2015 won't they!
 

Metroland

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Just for the record, I don't endorse any of the 3 major parties, they all have good and bad things about all of them. I'm rather interested as to 'what works', rather than silly ideologies quite honestly. The markets work better in some areas, the state works better in others, and grass roots movements in others besides.

The bottom line is you cannot have a decent public transport system unless to want to pay for it. By all means, make it cheap and nasty, but nobody will use it.

I'm not especially for or against privatisation, it's all about good management and more importantly whether the public recognises a decent system support the country in it's quality of life, and wider economic policies, especially social inclusion, congestion, supporting business and jobs as well as reduction in pollution.

There are some good examples of both private and public.

Because it's public doesn't mean the government will regard it as important and worthy of investment, a lot of 'boring' things like infrastructure typically get very little attention from politicians because they are long term projects out of most people's sight. You only have to look at Northern Ireland Water! (which is state owned)

Conversely, when private companies move into public services or naturally loss making services thus in order to meet the needs of the public, you are never going to completely remove politics or state subsidy.
 

chuckles1066

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Has everyone forgotten the last 13 years? Seriously, are we going to convince ourselves that it was actually not too bad? Jesus, the electorate really will vote Labour back in power come 2015 won't they!

I have been flamed elsewhere on this forum for daring to suggest that the Comprehensive School method of educating the masses was somewhat flawed and only succeeded in churning out those who can, at best, be generously described as educationally sub-normal.

You're not actually going to be the first to agree with me, are you?

Your post seems to indicate that you are.

(Hint: if you do, get your hard hat on and prepare for inbound flak)
 

Old Timer

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Old Timer, please stop posting detailed facts as it's not helping those who wish to bash the Tories.

Going by what I can see on Facebook, it's the evil Tories who are now forcing through cuts and VAT increases that are 'showing their true colours', with Ed Miliband saying we'll all spend an extra £7.50 a week (so, that means we all spend £300 a week on VATable goods?) thanks to the Tories.

Has everyone forgotten the last 13 years? Seriously, are we going to convince ourselves that it was actually not too bad? Jesus, the electorate really will vote Labour back in power come 2015 won't they!
Sorry about providing the facts, still in my experience that has never stopped a hatefest in its development.

There will always be people who are too dogmatic to take any notice, and those who are simply not intellectual enough to be able to rationalise fact from Leftist lies, and disingenuity - Something that I have to admit the Left are really expert at.

1973, 1979, 2010, its always the same, a Conservative Government inherits a bankrupt economy from Labour and then has to implement the harsh measures to pull us round whilst Labour lie and shout about unfairness from the sidelines.

The so called cuts gap only extend to £50bn in the first few years between Labour and Conservative plans, but of course no comment from the Boy Millipede as to what he would cut or increase to raise the money.

By the way, there are no "cuts" just reductions in planned spending, which means that at the next election spending on public services will still be higher than it is now.
 

Failed Unit

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Good post old timer. In hindsight they definately got some things wrong in 1992 but things certainly haven't got fixed now. 1992 gave us operation princes good idea but wrong but now we get no innovation and TOCs unable to deal with serious overcrowding (northern). I wish in 1992 we had just privatised the 5 sectors, the splits made many more inefficiencies a boundaries such as EMT doing ECS between Nottingham and Liverpool I am sure their are many examples of this around the uk.

Thinking back in 1992 i thought that privatisation wasn't going to be a bad thing. It wasn't until October 1992 and the regional railways cuts I realised that it might not be so good. Even in the early years in my area things were good GNER made massive improvements. Central trains at the begining were Ok.

I see your point TBCB I have never voted with a party I agree 100% with. But as you said we knew what we were getting and agree with privatisation or not the Uk felt the package was better than the alternatives!

As for open access it would have happened anyway. We just split up the uk too much as east and west coast mainlines were never going to really compete. If we had set up inter-city as a TOC no-one would be worse off than the regional monopolies we have now. It could have given us better marketing as just one company would need to advertise rather than 4 now for Anglo - scottish flows.
 

Old Timer

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Metroland
A good balanced post if I may be so bold.

The only problem with Nationalisation is two-fold, Political interference and the Trade Unions

We suffered in the 1970s by being the medium through which Labour instigated wage controls, except that they didn't apply to the "strong" trades unions who told Labour to go and put them where there is no daylight.

No Railway in the world can operate effectively under public ownership, every thriving Railway operates under Private control, even when this is sub-contracted out.

As far as the Trade Unions are concerned their Leaders are all the same, tired throwbacks to the 70s who are steeped in Communist and Marxist theories and too stupid to see that Eastern Europe has failed as a Socialist system. The RMT and ASLEF did incredible damage to the Railways during the 70s and 80s when they were fighting Political and idealogical battles rather than looking after the interests of their members. Striking until traffic is lost is never in anyone's interest, neither is trying to maintain a corrupt status quo such as we had in BR, and for which the Trade Unions were very much responsible.

I still find it amazing that some Trades Union leaders are more interested in fighting a Class War in Central America rather than fighting to protect their members from the serpent that THEY helped create, and which is destroying the frontline jobs of their members.
 

scotsman

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If it weren't for the Unions, I bet we'd see a lot less skilled employees on the network. I also reckon safety would be at risk as a result.
 

CarterUSM

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I agree with some of what you say Old Timer, I am pretty vociferous in my opinion of "garden parties for Cuba " and dealings with other trade unions of other countries as I do not really consider any of that as relevant to my grade, conditions of service, salary etc. Not to mention, commitees for this, that ,and the next thing. I simply want representation, a decent pay deal if possible, and last but certainly not least, a promotion of safety . In return, I will pay my subs and attend my branch meetings and take an active part in various other events where appropriate and if required to. It may sound selfish , though I certainly do not intend it to appear that way.
 

Old Timer

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If it weren't for the Unions, I bet we'd see a lot less skilled employees on the network. I also reckon safety would be at risk as a result.
Exactly WHAT impact have the Trades Unions had on the use of unskilled Labour ?

The training standards and staff terms and conditions amongst the privately owned Infrastructure Contractors are far far better, and the ability to report safety issues without fear of reprisal far exceeds that of the culture that exists within Network Rail - as any one on here who works for them will testify.

That I am afraid rather puts paid to the tired old Socialist mantra about Privatisation and private employers.

The question you SHOULD be asking is why the RMT remain so quiet on the use by Network Rail of unskilled Labour from cheap labour agencies, who pay peanuts, and provide minimal standards of training, and PPE. These people are used whilst Network Rail not only leaves permanent positions unfilled, but has also embarked upon a course of reducing its Maintenance workforce even more, to the concern of HMRI.

The bottom line is that having pushed their servants in the Labour Government to create this inept organisation, they are now unable to challenge it because to do so would imply failure and by implication the failed Political dogma which led to people like Coucher and friends taking £millions out of the system whilst destroying it.
 

scotsman

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Exactly WHAT impact have the Trades Unions had on the use of unskilled Labour ?
The training standards and staff terms and conditions amongst the privately owned Infrastructure Contractors are far far better, and the ability to report safety issues without fear of reprisal far exceeds that of the culture that exists within Network Rail - as any one on here who works for them will testify.
I'd argue that it's because they actually give a damn about their employees, some employers do actively work with unions/employees to improve conditions without industrial action having to be taken to draw these issues to their attenetion

That I am afraid rather puts paid to the tired old Socialist mantra about Privatisation and private employers.
Which mantra would that be?


The question you SHOULD be asking is why the RMT remain so quiet on the use by Network Rail of unskilled Labour from cheap labour agencies, who pay peanuts, and provide minimal standards of training, and PPE.
It's no secret that a union works for its members, the vast majority of these unskilled labourers are not union members
These people are used whilst Network Rail not only leaves permanent positions unfilled, but has also embarked upon a course of reducing its Maintenance workforce even more, to the concern of HMRI.
Did you not notice the strike that was stopped by NR last summer?

The bottom line is that having pushed their servants in the Labour Government to create this inept organisation, they are now unable to challenge it because to do so would imply failure and by implication the failed Political dogma which led to people like Coucher and friends taking £millions out of the system whilst destroying it.

Err, RMT has not been associated with Labour for several years. Would you rather Railtrack was left in charge?
 
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Old Timer

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..Which mantra would that be?
The one that claims private Companies treat their workers like slaves, pay them low wages, and put profit above all else.

It's no secret that a union works for its members, the vast majority of these unskilled labourers are not union members
Ahh that must make it all right then does it ?

My point was that the RMT has bargaining rights with Network Rail, and did not exercise them because they felt unable to contest an organisation they had fought to have set up. It is only now (or maybe then) when Network Rail are really taking Maintenance to the cleaners and the HMRI are expressing concern do the RMT sudden appear out of the gloom like the Phantom at the Feast. Do you think that is good trade union representation ? I certainly don't.

Did you not notice the strike that was stopped by NR last summer?
I heard about it but not a lot since. Storm in a teacup ?

...Err, RMT has not been associated with Labour for several years. Would you rather Railtrack was left in charge?
Fair point about the RMT, I was out of the UK rather a lot last year and the year before.

As for Railtrack being in charge ? Well actually as someone who has worked under both regimes, the answer is YES I would. Pray tell me what was so wrong with the Railtrack model now compared to the Network Rail model, bearing in mind that Railtrack was constituted by employees who were also shareholders.

What I do know is that far more research was done under the Railtrack/IMC/IMU regime, track quality was starting to improve and the IMCs/IMUs were investing in new plant and equipment.

Under Network Rail most of this has reversed, and to add to it, just before it is planning to embark upon a major investment scheme, it has not only cynically and deliberately bankrupted one of its key suppliers, but it has driven off some of the most skilled New Works people to Foreign shores in yet another cynical attempt to break the Infrastructure Contractors and take New Works in-house as well. For an organisation whose input to in-house maintenance has been to preside over failing track quality, increasing costs, and ever ongoing staff reductions to even think it can manage let alone run successfully any new works programme is laughable.

The New works and Relaying works that Network Rail have done with their own staff, heavily supplemented by labour agencies (which is at odds with the whole concept surely ???) have been complete disasters, with for example the track installed too high through a station platform :lol: and on another occasion managing to turn over a section of LWR and then being unable to right it back up again.
 
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It maybe was in the 1992 manifesto. I doubt that the detail of exactly how they were going to do it was. No-one voted conservative in that election just because of that single policy. Like every election before and every election to come people vote for a party because they prefer there overall manifesto. (except in certain people that would vote for a party just because their dad, grandad did irrelevant of the policies)

So in 1992 the conservatives got in because people felt they were safer than labour not because they were going to privatise BR. Which labour were going to reverse anyway if the won the next election. ;)


And we waited and waited...............
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Old Timer, please stop posting detailed facts as it's not helping those who wish to bash the Tories.

This is irony isn't it? Please tell me that it's irony because of it isn't it's just an illustration of someone not letting facts get in the way if ideology.

Going by what I can see on Facebook, it's the evil Tories who are now forcing through cuts and VAT increases that are 'showing their true colours', with Ed Miliband saying we'll all spend an extra £7.50 a week (so, that means we all spend £300 a week on VATable goods?) thanks to the Tories.

Has everyone forgotten the last 13 years? Seriously, are we going to convince ourselves that it was actually not too bad? Jesus, the electorate really will vote Labour back in power come 2015 won't they!

It is irony isn't it?
 

jon0844

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I don't think for one minute that the new coalition is going to be the best thing that ever happened to us, any more than any other Government but we all knew that after nearly going bankrupt and having the bailiffs at the door, we were going to have to suffer. I also have a little bit of good feeling that maybe a coalition is what we needed, and it's certainly different to what we've had before (at least in our lifetime).

I can accept anyone moaning about the cuts (or reduction in spending), some projects being delayed or the VAT increase - but do feel that Labour should shut the **** up and keep their heads down. What worries me more is that people are now attacking the new Government for having to fix things, because they're still thinking in the way that Labour brainwashed everyone to think; don't worry about tomorrow.. spend spend spend.

The problem is that the thought that people who can finance everything, so they get a nice home, nice car, can get a big screen TV and take one or two holidays a year will be happy (and therefore keep voting for you) is doomed. It isn't just Labour that allowed this to happen mind you (think the recession before, with the 1980s boom and bust) but just because someone f'd up before doesn't excuse you making the same mistake.

I'm of the opinion that with even the Daily Telegraph determined to ruin this Government (as they'd rather Tories lost power than share it with the Lib Dems), they'll be out in 2015 and the whole mess will start again. Then people will go 'oh yeah' as their slow brains realise what Labour did and we'll play ping pong between each party over and over - just as we always do.

Sadly, I have no answers. I can't suggest what the alternative is, but that's all that ever happens. However, I'm hopeful that this coalition might possible manage to do things in a more balanced and thoughtful way and get some more time, but I'm a realist and think their days are numbered.

PS. I don't think I'm being ironic there!!
 

yorksrob

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As for open access it would have happened anyway. We just split up the uk too much as east and west coast mainlines were never going to really compete. If we had set up inter-city as a TOC no-one would be worse off than the regional monopolies we have now. It could have given us better marketing as just one company would need to advertise rather than 4 now for Anglo - scottish flows.

Indeed, I certainly would have liked to have seen the Inter-City brand kept, and as you say, there would have been savings in management and advertising etc.

Unfortunately, you still would have been left with the problem we have today in that you would have one very profitable TOC, so what do you do about the rest? Economic wisdom suggests that if you get private enterprise into the rest of the network eventually passenger numbers will increase, receipts will go up and this part of the railway will go into profit. Instead of the railway being a drain on the public purse, you have a company paying tax into the exchequer. So far so good.

But what about if your private investment does increase passenger numbers and does increase fare revenue but not enough to turn a profit. The company still needs to be profitable in itself to continue. Not only this, but the profitable bit of the railway has been sold to another company which also has to make a profit, so you have to invent some way of getting these companies to pay towards the local services - hence premiums, which governments seem to have such difficulty setting without making even the profitable companies go bust.

The point is, splitting up the network did not suddenly make it profitable, whilst increasing investment does not always lead to profitability, although it may indeed lead to some increased passenger use (A good precedent was when BR dieselised many branchlines in the fifties and sixties, and passengers and revenues did go up. However, profitability was not achieved and it still had to come to a political decision as to whether the public should support these lines).

That's why I'm sceptical that fragmenting the railway can ever really work without massive public subsidy - at least, not unless there is some fundamental change in the economics of transport.
 

321446

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Whether or not he had a sheltered / priviledged life is a matter of opinion, but to refer to people working their rocks off trying to do difficult jobs under extreme pressure as 'thugs' and 'layabouts' gives the impression that he doesn't have much understaning of the real world.

The man was offensive to people who he knows do not have the same volume of voice that he does. Or who can respond without fear of their job. To tar groups of people with the same brush is ignorant. To do it to people who cannot respond is bullying.

I bet there are countless people who would love the stage that he has to air their petty predujices. But such is the way of the World. Speaking as someone who does his utmost best everyday he is at work. Who ends up being called a thug and layabout. It makes it all worthwhile. Really does.

And if anyone says "Why don't you go get a job you like" to me again, to my face or on this forum, I will sweetly smile and know that I have actually do have that job. At NXEA. But, I am still a human and as such I have feelings.
 

blacknight

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I am old enough to have seen Thats Life on TV so they people really to blame for present set up by letting sad members of the public write in & complain about BR holding their service at a station to connect with a late running service.
So grew the myth of BR always being late & running an unreliable service surely private company could do better?
Think we have the answer today & people got what they wished for as one persons missed connection:( is as always anothers prompt departure:).
 

Failed Unit

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I am old enough to have seen Thats Life on TV so they people really to blame for present set up by letting sad members of the public write in & complain about BR holding their service at a station to connect with a late running service.
So grew the myth of BR always being late & running an unreliable service surely private company could do better?
Think we have the answer today & people got what they wished for as one persons missed connection:( is as always anothers prompt departure:).

Yep I have had it from both sides. In the 1980s sat on a train heading for Cleethorpes waiting for 20mins for a connection from Birmingham at Lincoln. The 50 people who transferred were very happy.

Now watching an empty train leave 50people behind at Newark because of an 8 minute delay on a 7 minute connection.

I know holding connections has it's own problems but at times common sense should be applied. Take the 1924 Newark - Cleethorpes it could leave 15 minutes late and still be on time by Barnetby. So why don't the hold it 5 minutes. The poor reliabilty of connections has forced many people who used to use local services to drive to the mainline.
 

blacknight

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Yep I have had it from both sides. In the 1980s sat on a train heading for Cleethorpes waiting for 20mins for a connection from Birmingham at Lincoln. The 50 people who transferred were very happy.


Now watching an empty train leave 50people behind at Newark because of an 8 minute delay on a 7 minute connection.

I know holding connections has it's own problems but at times common sense should be applied. Take the 1924 Newark - Cleethorpes it could leave 15 minutes late and still be on time by Barnetby. So why don't the hold it 5 minutes. The poor reliabilty of connections has forced many people who used to use local services to drive to the mainline.

Truth be known basically its due to a falling out of EMT aka Stagecoach & East Coast bring about a non cooperation pact between 2 TOC's.
Because EMT were not given a stop order they will now not hold the local for mainliner to connect into.
Time for public to call on they MP's & DfTto put an end to this madness & for return into public ownership the railways.
 

Failed Unit

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Truth be known basically its due to a falling out of EMT aka Stagecoach & East Coast bring about a non cooperation pact between 2 TOC's.
Because EMT were not given a stop order they will now not hold the local for mainliner to connect into.
Time for public to call on they MP's & DfTto put an end to this madness & for return into public ownership the railways.

But this nonsense has not changed since GNER and Central trains. So unfortunately it is not new. I wish Lincolnshire was in the same franchise as the mainline at least the would have a vested in providing connections. East Coast and GNER before them preferred people not to use the local service so they can get the parking revenue at Newark which is more than the ticket price between Market Rasen and Newark!
 

blacknight

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Crow Park
But this nonsense has not changed since GNER and Central trains. So unfortunately it is not new. I wish Lincolnshire was in the same franchise as the mainline at least the would have a vested in providing connections. East Coast and GNER before them preferred people not to use the local service so they can get the parking revenue at Newark which is more than the ticket price between Market Rasen and Newark!

As you quoted Market Rasen when 1924 departs booked time & there are passengers of mainliners that connect into that service cost to East Coast & indirectly to you the tax payer is at least one if not two taxis to Rasen because 2 TOC's cannot work in partnership.
PS no garentee of car park revenue as NCP control one of the station car parks & local operator as opened 2 car parks in Northgate area, so ends of myth of gaining revenue through car parking charges!
 

LittleTyke

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I simply had to register on this forum just so that I could sign on and DEFEND Harry Mount's excellent piece in the Telegraph, referenced above. This may be old news by now, but the sentiment expressed in his article comprehensively echoes my own experiences of Britain's railway.
 
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