Wonderfully offensive article in the Torygraph

[O L Leigh]

Did you read the rest of the post?

Unfortunately, there are times when the best way of keeping the customer happy is to lie. It's what is done to a toddler having a tantrum, and works equally well on an adult behaving the same way.

Yes I did read the rest of the post, but it doesn't change what I would do the next time there is disruption.

I've seen the approach you described backfire spectacularly when dealing with just such a problem punter. There was an obstruction on the OLE and a colleague of mine told him that it would take 20 minutes just to pacify him. 30 minutes later he was back at the cab window twice as angry and twice as red in the face demanding to know why they were still stuck there when he'd been told it would take 20 minutes.

Quite honestly the way to deal with a toddler having a tantrum is to ignore them. They do it for attention so the best way to prevent them doing it again is to demonstrate that this is not the way they get attention. While you can't ignore an irrational and angry passenger I refuse to give in to them for the short-term gain of getting them away from my cab window. It only serves to make a rod for your own back.

On the more general thrust of the thread, Metroland is entirely correct and I have already said much the same earlier. You can't just conjure information out of thin air. If control, the signaller and whoever else you get hold of can't tell you anything (even assuming that you can get through to them in the first place) you can't do much more than apologise for the delay. Under such circumstances you are not failing to do your job properly because it is not simply a case of going and getting information.

The other potential pitfall is that sometimes things change and the information you have been giving out in good faith is superceded by some new decision and turns out to be wrong. That's no-one's fault and certainly not the guy on the platform/train who, as I have learned by my own experience, is often the very last person to be told.

Communication should be better and staff should be advised what is going on, but for Pete's sake show us a bit of understanding. It is NOT an easy situation to manage and unfortunately we cannot be expected to know the answer to every question you pose, especially how long before we leave. This is the real world, not some utopian dreamland.

O L Leigh

 

[yorksrob]

Personally I find that the staff at the information counter in Leeds are generally very helpful and will even phone through when I'm making an enquiry.

The problem arises at the local unstaffed stations where Metro have unfortunately opted for hit and miss tannoy systems rather than visual displays which would have been much more useful. The choice is then wait in the cold indefinately, attempt to get some sense out of National Rail Enquiries (and use up all the credit on your phone) or get the bus.

 

[142094]

Won't be Metro's responsibility for the tannoys - everything is controlled by Northern and they had problems with them everywhere (even up here, Hartlepool way). Metro can check the stations and fail them if there are problems (not sure if it would be covered by the Metro timetables and the help points) but up to Northern to do something about it.

 

[Domeyhead]

I agree with Clip and some of the responses on here are very disappointing. When BR started to refer to passengers as "customers" it was not for the benefit of the passenger - it was to remind staff that when someone has paid for a service they are entitled to be treated with a more consistent standard of courtesy. SOme of the posts here make me wonder whether anything at all in the last 20 years of staff training has actually got through to some who clearly still work in the industry.
There is a spectrum of attitude and ability in the train manager/guard job roles but those who bother to keep passengers fully informed BEFORE being harangued generally have a better time than those who even to this day hide away when there is a problem, which will inevitably lead to a row when they are smoked out by irate passengers with places to go.
For Scotman's benefit in categorising me I went to grammar school 40 years ago - but I don't see what the hell it has to do with the subject in hand. Does he suggest I should enquire the same thing of any staff member before deciding how to act?

 

[O L Leigh]

Quite honestly I don't think some people understand just how difficult these situations can be to manage and I'm beginning to get just a little annoyed. Precisely what would you have me do?

I've stopped at a red signal and waited for a couple of minutes for it to clear. It doesn't, so I "SG" the box to tell the signaller that I'm detained at a red signal and get a "WAIT" message back. The signal still doesn't clear, so I make a PA to apologise for the delay, tell the passengers we're waiting at a red signal and tell them I'll pass on any information I get. I wait a few more minutes. I now attempt to call the box but all I get is "CALL BUSY", so I wait a couple of minutes and try again with the same result. I then try to call control on my phone but only get a "number busy" tone, so I try the DTM who finally tells me there's an obstruction on the OLE. I ask how long it will be before it can be removed and the DTM tells me he doesn't know. So I make another PA to pass these details on being careful not to give any timescale that I might be held to later before settling in to wait. If anyone comes up to the cab I'll talk to them but again won't be drawn on how long it might take to sort out, because basically the first I'll know about it is when the signal clears and we're underway again.

So, what more would you have me do...?

O L Leigh

 

[ph1985]

Quite honestly I don't think some people understand just how difficult these situations can be to manage and I'm beginning to get just a little annoyed. Precisely what would you have me do?

I've stopped at a red signal and waited for a couple of minutes for it to clear. It doesn't, so I "SG" the box to tell the signaller that I'm detained at a red signal and get a "WAIT" message back. The signal still doesn't clear, so I make a PA to apologise for the delay, tell the passengers we're waiting at a red signal and tell them I'll pass on any information I get. I wait a few more minutes. I now attempt to call the box but all I get is "CALL BUSY", so I wait a couple of minutes and try again with the same result. I then try to call control on my phone but only get a "number busy" tone, so I try the DTM who finally tells me there's an obstruction on the OLE. I ask how long it will be before it can be removed and the DTM tells me he doesn't know. So I make another PA to pass these details on being careful not to give any timescale that I might be held to later before settling in to wait. If anyone comes up to the cab I'll talk to them but again won't be drawn on how long it might take to sort out, because basically the first I'll know about it is when the signal clears and we're underway again.

So, what more would you have me do...?

O L Leigh

The problem is clearly communication. The signaller should know, and should be able to tell you. And that failure is down to management, which everyone knows is god awful in Network Rail etc.

But, unfortunately for the front line staff...if i've paid good money for a service and aren't getting that service, i don't care about the hows or whys. I just want to know when it's going to be fixed and when i'll get the service i pay for...just the same as you would if you mobile phone/gas/electricity/Sky TV etc broke down.

The impression from a lot of the railway staff on this thread is that they get annoyed at the passengers for their own management's failings.

 

[yorksrob]

Won't be Metro's responsibility for the tannoys - everything is controlled by Northern and they had problems with them everywhere (even up here, Hartlepool way). Metro can check the stations and fail them if there are problems (not sure if it would be covered by the Metro timetables and the help points) but up to Northern to do something about it.

I must admit, I'm not entirely sure who pays for them. I say Metro because they mentioned on their website that some had been upgraded. Better than nothing I suppose, but at least with a screen the information is there by default, which would be very useful at places such as Wakefield K and Castleford where you get a variety of services using the same platform.

 

[142094]

I must admit, I'm not entirely sure who pays for them. I say Metro because they mentioned on their website that some had been upgraded. Better than nothing I suppose, but at least with a screen the information is there by default, which would be very useful at places such as Wakefield K and Castleford where you get a variety of services using the same platform.

IIRC they were in place long before Northern came about - possibly even as far back as Regional Railways or around that time. AFAIAA Metro set the standard for the stations and could invest money into putting new information screens etc in, but that is something which Northern should be doing anyway.

I agree at Kirkgate it would be good (although would get vandalised straight away). First time I travelled there I had no idea what platform the Barnsley train would be on and missed it. Signage seems to have improved when GC got the Bradford Int services running.

 

[EM2]

unfortunately a lot of it stems down the origin of that article...poor management in the back rooms. the guard should know more than the passenger. the TOC should have procedures in place to let him/her know the very latest information to relay to passengers. but because theyre so poorly run, they dont. as bad as airlines can be, they leave rail operators dead in the water on that front.

So what do you suggest is done?
Quite often, the first any member of station staff knows about any disruption is either a radio message via their control room or seeing delays and cancellations appearing on the departure boards.
And control have probably got an email, with very scant detail, from Route Control. And as Metroland has already mentioned, they have their hands full trying to sort out their contingency plan in conjunction with signallers and TOCs, and really don't need stations ringing every minute to ask 'what's wrong?'.

There's often plenty of information, it's just not what the customer wants to hear. Look at the Eurostar queues before Christmas. Eurostar told people what was happening, not to travel unless essential, only arrive one hour before your train, don't turn up without a ticket. But people ignore the advice they're given and then complain.

 

[yorksrob]

I agree at Kirkgate it would be good (although would get vandalised straight away). First time I travelled there I had no idea what platform the Barnsley train would be on and missed it. Signage seems to have improved when GC got the Bradford Int services running.

Perhaps they could put them behind a sheet of bullet proof glass

 

[142094]

Perhaps they could put them behind a sheet of bullet proof glass

Sure someone would try to nick that as well!

 

[O L Leigh]

The problem is clearly communication. The signaller should know, and should be able to tell you. And that failure is down to management, which everyone knows is god awful in Network Rail etc.

How can the signaller know? He might be aware of what the problem is but how can he possibly know how long it's going to take before trains are on the move again. He's as much a victim of circumstance and outside factors as I am.

There is no way he can know precisely how long it's going to take for a MOM and workcrew to arrive on-site, locate the fault and rectify it. When I call up because I'm stuck at a signal it's likely that the fault has only recently been reported, so even getting through to him immediately doesn't tell me how long it's likely to take. From my own experience the best a signaller can do is guess.

But, unfortunately for the front line staff...if i've paid good money for a service and aren't getting that service, i don't care about the hows or whys. I just want to know when it's going to be fixed and when i'll get the service i pay for...just the same as you would if you mobile phone/gas/electricity/Sky TV etc broke down.

Well, we can, as Flamingo does, just make up something to pacify you if you'd like, but it will be nothing better than an educated guess. Would you be annoyed if I told you it would take 20 minutes and then it took double that estimate?

The impression from a lot of the railway staff on this thread is that they get annoyed at the passengers for their own management's failings.

Ah, and now we arrive at the crux.

Yes there are issues over communication with front-line staff, that is undeniable. And it's something that many TOC's are addressing by issuing staff with devices that can be used to access up-to-date delay information.

However, when there is no information to give we cannot tell you anything, and it's at times like this when I keep my powder dry. I know how annoying it can be to make false promises or misleading statements, and so I try to avoid making any. If the job has stopped due to major disruption there is no-one I can ask about the likely extent of the disruption because no-one will know. This isn't a management issue but an engineering issue. No-one can tell anyone how long a job is likely to take until they get down there and look at it, and even that will just be an estimate.

But I'm not annoyed at the passengers. I'm always friendly and approachable, even if I can't tell them what they want to know.

Please don't mistake "can't" for "won't". As I've said a few times already, I will not just fib so that a passenger will go away and leave me alone. I'm honest enough to say "I don't know" when that is the situation I find myself in. Asking for more is asking the impossible, and that is the top and bottom of this issue.

O L Leigh

 

[Flamingo]

Well, we can, as Flamingo does, just make up something to pacify you if you'd like, but it will be nothing better than an educated guess.

Not to take away from your post (which is correct), but as I have said in other posts, I will say " I don't know" if the answer is I don't know, and give the reason I don't know. I will also make educated guesses, but again, make sure it is labelled as such.

I was giving an example of specific case where somebody was not prepared to accept "don't know" despite everybody who could give him information being available, polite, and giving him the same answer (including the station PA), and why I felt in that case (risk of assault by or apoplexy in a passenger) it was acceptable to do so.

It was intended to demonstrate how unreasonable some people could be until they heard something they wished to hear and will be in denial until they get the answer they want, even if the answer is against all the available facts. I felt it was relevant as the thread started about whether a certain Journo had been unreasonable in how an article had been written.

It was not intended as a statement that I just say any rubbish to get rid of a difficult situation, tempting though it may be .

 

[ph1985]

How can the signaller know? He might be aware of what the problem is but how can he possibly know how long it's going to take before trains are on the move again. He's as much a victim of circumstance and outside factors as I am.

There is no way he can know precisely how long it's going to take for a MOM and workcrew to arrive on-site, locate the fault and rectify it. When I call up because I'm stuck at a signal it's likely that the fault has only recently been reported, so even getting through to him immediately doesn't tell me how long it's likely to take. From my own experience the best a signaller can do is guess.



Well, we can, as Flamingo does, just make up something to pacify you if you'd like, but it will be nothing better than an educated guess. Would you be annoyed if I told you it would take 20 minutes and then it took double that estimate?



Ah, and now we arrive at the crux.

Yes there are issues over communication with front-line staff, that is undeniable. And it's something that many TOC's are addressing by issuing staff with devices that can be used to access up-to-date delay information.

However, when there is no information to give we cannot tell you anything, and it's at times like this when I keep my powder dry. I know how annoying it can be to make false promises or misleading statements, and so I try to avoid making any. If the job has stopped due to major disruption there is no-one I can ask about the likely extent of the disruption because no-one will know. This isn't a management issue but an engineering issue. No-one can tell anyone how long a job is likely to take until they get down there and look at it, and even that will just be an estimate.

But I'm not annoyed at the passengers. I'm always friendly and approachable, even if I can't tell them what they want to know.

Please don't mistake "can't" for "won't". As I've said a few times already, I will not just fib so that a passenger will go away and leave me alone. I'm honest enough to say "I don't know" when that is the situation I find myself in. Asking for more is asking the impossible, and that is the top and bottom of this issue.

O L Leigh

That final part is the point im getting at. You should not have to say 'i dont know'. The management should have in place a system so that everyone in the slightest way involved knows exactly what is going on at all times. That they dont is their own failing, but as the front line railway staff it is you who bears the brunt of people's frustration even though i think everyone with a modicum of common sense knows it isnt your fault.

 

[O L Leigh]

Thanks for the clarification, Flamingo.

That final part is the point im getting at. You should not have to say 'i dont know'.

But the rest of my post explains why "I don't know" is all I can say at times.

It's not down to management systems being in place but about how long it takes to fix a problem. Your car might be making a knocking sound which the mechanic says might be minor and take half a day, but until he gets the bonnet up and has a look he can't possibly know the cause of the knocking noise, what work might be required to fix it or how long it will all take.

O L Leigh

 

[Clip]

Not to take away from your post (which is correct), but as I have said in other posts, I will say " I don't know" if the answer is I don't know, and give the reason I don't know. I will also make educated guesses, but again, make sure it is labelled as such.

I was giving an example of specific case where somebody was not prepared to accept "don't know" despite everybody who could give him information being available, polite, and giving him the same answer (including the station PA), and why I felt in that case (risk of assault by or apoplexy in a passenger) it was acceptable to do so.

It was intended to demonstrate how unreasonable some people could be until they heard something they wished to hear and will be in denial until they get the answer they want, even if the answer is against all the available facts. I felt it was relevant as the thread started about whether a certain Journo had been unreasonable in how an article had been written.

It was not intended as a statement that I just say any rubbish to get rid of a difficult situation, tempting though it may be .

To put it more clearly for you then.

You can always word things differently or just keep trotting out the same information. You know something so tell them what you know. You should never tell someone you 'Dont know' when you know a little.

Thats just my opinion and having used it many a time i know that it works.

 

[Flamingo]

That final part is the point im getting at. You should not have to say 'i dont know'. The management should have in place a system so that everyone in the slightest way involved knows exactly what is going on at all times. That they dont is their own failing, but as the front line railway staff it is you who bears the brunt of people's frustration even though i think everyone with a modicum of common sense knows it isnt your fault.

So every single member of staff in uniform (several thousand in number) should be instantly aware of the progress of an incident which is affecting trains, possibly not even belonging to their TOC, and possibly a few hundred miles away, in the same instant that the Signaller or Control managing the incident are made aware of any changes in the situation? :roll:

Bloody hell, as an industry we are on a losing wicket here. This post illustrates that there really is no pleasing some people - is it even worth attempting to with attitudes like this, I wonder? The scarier thing is that this poster thinks that he's being reasonable and others who have higher expectations don't have "a modicum of common sense". :roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

To put it more clearly for you then.

You can always word things differently or just keep trotting out the same information. You know something so tell them what you know. You should never tell someone you 'Dont know' when you know a little.

Thats just my opinion and having used it many a time i know that it works.

To put it more clearly for you then:
When a situation has just happened, or an incident is ongoing, that is often only one answer to the very specific question which is asked by nearly every single passenger. That question is "When is the train going to move/get to...?"
The answer is a variation of the theme of "I DON'T KNOW".

Why is that something that so many posters on this thread are finding so difficult to understand, and taking as wilful obstruction on the part of rail staff.

An exercise for you all: next time any of you are on the motorway system and are held up by an RTA, try phoning the local Police or Highways Agency and see what answer you get if you ask how long they are going to take to re-open the road.

 

[Clip]

To put it more clearly for you then:
When a situation has just happened, or an incident is ongoing, that is often only one answer to the very specific question which is asked by nearly every single passenger. That question is "When is the train going to move/get to...?"
The answer is a variation of the theme of "I DON'T KNOW".

Why is that something that so many posters on this thread are finding so difficult to understand, and taking as wilful obstruction on the part of rail staff.

An exercise for you all: next time any of you are on the motorway system and are held up by an RTA, try phoning the local Police or Highways Agency and see what answer you get if you ask how long they are going to take to re-open the road.

so now your admitting that you can use a variation of I DONT KNOW now then? Thats the point i was getting at.

"Im sorry at the present time the only information i have is.... As soon as i get any further information i will pass this on to you"


I dont drive so ill pass on calling the police thanks.

 

[Old Timer]

So every single member of staff in uniform (several thousand in number) should be instantly aware of the progress of an incident which is affecting trains, possibly not even belonging to their TOC, and possibly a few hundred miles away, in the same instant that the Signaller or Control managing the incident are made aware of any changes in the situation? :roll:

Bloody hell, as an industry we are on a losing wicket here. This post illustrates that there really is no pleasing some people - is it even worth attempting to with attitudes like this, I wonder? The scarier thing is that this poster thinks that he's being reasonable and others who have higher expectations don't have "a modicum of common sense". :roll:.

Ahh the good old British Public.

They want the absolute Rolls Royce of a car service-wise but they want to pay the equivalent to the cost of a bicycle for it.

They are never wrong, it is always the person providing the service who is wrong. They are always correct when it comes to their "rights" which they can parrot off. These "rights" are never tempered by Law, and where the Law does not recognise these "rights" then both the Law and the Company is wrong.

"Rights, "duties", "accountability", and "responsibility" ONLY apply positively to the Customer - whom of course is always right. The Customer is NEVER bound by their "duties", "accountability", or "responsibility", which of course they agreed/signed up to when procuring the service/purchasing the item.

They "only" get "annoyed" but anyone who responds in a manner less than that of a serf addressing a Regent is "arrogant", "rude", "ill mannered" "insulting", "offensive", et al.

They "pay the wages" of the person representing the Company, if only the Company would show this rather than their name on the payslip, the employee would know this.

The representative of the Company must ALWAYS know what the "customer" wants. They should achieve this through parapsychic means, as a failure to do so brands them "stupid", "ignorant", etc, etc.

Of course any service provider/supplier is "working against the public good", "exploiting the customer", "taking advantageof the customer", "acting unreasonably" - The absolute judge of this is of course the customer, "taking the mickey", "operating a cartel", "is not interested in customer service" etc, etc when they do not meet the demands of the "customer" irrespective of how unreasonable or unrealistic.

Finally, representatives of the service provider/supplier, can be sacked merely by means of a letter to Head Office, and the "customer" reserves the right and the power to rend unemployed, and indeed unemployable where necessary, anyone who does not accede to any and every request.

 

[Flamingo]

so now your admitting that you can use a variation of I DONT KNOW now then? Thats the point i was getting at.

"Im sorry at the present time the only information i have is.... As soon as i get any further information i will pass this on to you"

OK, I thought your point was that I should have psychic powers. If all you want me to do is say "I don't know" in different ways, that I already do, tailoring it for the needs of the individual passenger according to their age, personality and manner:
"I don't know".
"I'm sorry sir, I don't know".
"I haven't a clue mate, sorry".
"No idea".
"Your guess is as good as mine".
"Before midnight". (I realise this may appear to be giving some information, for that reason I never use it after 10 AM)
"Today sometime, I hope" (again, never used after midday in case I raise false expectations.)

However, if you have any more variations you can suggest (that don't use as many technical terms or jargon as the above), I am always willing to learn and to take on any new ideas suggested by my customers.

 

[Clip]

OK, I thought your point was that I should have psychic powers. If all you want me to do is say "I don't know" in different ways, that I already do, tailoring it for the needs of the individual passenger according to their age, personality and manner:
"I don't know".
"I'm sorry sir, I don't know".
"I haven't a clue mate, sorry".
"No idea".
"Your guess is as good as mine".
"Before midnight". (I realise this may appear to be giving some information, for that reason I never use it after 10 AM)
"Today sometime, I hope" (again, never used after midday in case I raise false expectations.)

However, if you have any more variations you can suggest (that don't use as many technical terms or jargon as the above), I am always willing to learn and to take on any new ideas suggested by my customers.

So your saying you never have a clue what is going on then? Or do you know something?

What im saying which you have obviously missed is that you can tell them what you know. And then end it with "As soon as i know more information ill pass it on to you"

why is that so difficult for you to grasp?

 

[EM2]

Because sometimes, he doesn't know anything! And that's generally because people will start asking *immediately* there's an incident.
I work at a station and often, because I've been doing something else and not staring at the departure boards, the first I'll know about a problem is when someone says 'Why is the 12:25 cancelled?'

 

[Flamingo]

So your saying you never have a clue what is going on then? Or do you know something?

What im saying which you have obviously missed is that you can tell them what you know. And then end it with "As soon as i know more information ill pass it on to you"

why is that so difficult for you to grasp?

Nine times out of ten, I don't get asked "what's happening?", as they don't care, as other posters have said on this thread and passengers say to my face, that's the railways problem, not theirs.

To repeat (again), what gets asked over and over again is "What time?"

I see nothing wrong with saying "I don't know", if it's the truth. You obviously do see something wrong with that.

So, as you are the customer and therefore are always right, I have to accept your view.

Now I have agreed with you, can you go away and annoy someone else?

 

[Fred26]

Nine times out of ten, I don't get asked "what's happening?", as they don't care, as other posters have said on this thread and passengers say to my face, that's the railways problem, not theirs.

To repeat (again), what gets asked over and over again is "What time?"

I see nothing wrong with saying "I don't know", if it's the truth. You obviously do see something wrong with that.

So, as you are the customer and therefore are always right, I have to accept your view.

Now I have agreed with you, can you go away and annoy someone else?

I agree with you. I have no problem telling passengers that I don't know. I usually follow that up by trying to contact Control, or my Supervisor, but often I still have to tell people that 'I don't know'. It's better to say something than be sat in the corner, hiding.

 

[ph1985]

So every single member of staff in uniform (several thousand in number) should be instantly aware of the progress of an incident which is affecting trains, possibly not even belonging to their TOC, and possibly a few hundred miles away, in the same instant that the Signaller or Control managing the incident are made aware of any changes in the situation? :roll:

Bloody hell, as an industry we are on a losing wicket here. This post illustrates that there really is no pleasing some people - is it even worth attempting to with attitudes like this, I wonder? The scarier thing is that this poster thinks that he's being reasonable and others who have higher expectations don't have "a modicum of common sense". :roll:

Put it this way, if im asked in my job what is going with something i'd better have an answer, even though factors from all around the world come into play. The systems are in place to let me know the information i need to know - so the 'how are we supposed to know' excuse doesn't wash. It can be achieved, and other countries have achieved it on their rail networks.

Flip it over - how would you improve the lines of communication so that our trains run as well as they do in some other nations?

 

[Flamingo]

ph1985, whatever industry you work in obviously has it cracked. lets flip it over again. Why don't you tell us how to do it? (obviously after nearly 200 years the rail industry has not managed to crack it, some outside input would be helpful).

 

[scotsman]

For Scotman's benefit in categorising me I went to grammar school 40 years ago - but I don't see what the hell it has to do with the subject in hand. Does he suggest I should enquire the same thing of any staff member before deciding how to act?

I explained several pages back that I was emphasising that this 'journalist' has lead a rather priveleged life and should know better. Instead, he sees these rail staff as beneath him.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Because sometimes, he doesn't know anything! And that's generally because people will start asking *immediately* there's an incident.
I work at a station and often, because I've been doing something else and not staring at the departure boards, the first I'll know about a problem is when someone says 'Why is the 12:25 cancelled?'

I got phoned by a mate in Waverley: 'My train's been cancelled, do you know why?'

I must remember to pick up that crystal ball...

 

[Flamingo]

I must remember to pick up that crystal ball...

The problem is remembering which backside I shoved it up last

 

[Domeyhead]

There is some annoying hyperbole spoiling what is a simple common sense argument. The biggest and simplest benefit that exists between two states when a train stops unaccountably is when the driver says "Sorry ladies and gents, we're waiting at a red signal. Don't know why yet or for how long. I'm waiting to hear from the signaller. I'll let you know when I hear anything more"
as opposed to nothing at all, which is obviously more annoying because then nobody knows whether it's a fault, a warning light somewhere. a breakdown, one under, an obstruction, industrial action......anything. If the driver makes an announcement even if he knows very little himself it is appreciated and he is doing his job well, most passengers are satisfied and nobody expects more.
That is simple common sense. Talk of needing management systems or signallers or better management or even Richard-bloody-Branson himself providing total information is actually secondary to the basics of simple communication. Lying to experienced commuters is probably the only thing worse than nothing and is counterproductive as others have said. A lot more good (and goodwill) can be done with what we already have. Talk to people. Even if you know very little, people are still reassured when they feel they are being given what is available. How many times does that simple and obvious message have to be repeated to staff before it gets through?

 

[12CSVT]

There is some annoying hyperbole spoiling what is a simple common sense argument. The biggest and simplest benefit that exists between two states when a train stops unaccountably is when the driver says "Sorry ladies and gents, we're waiting at a red signal. Don't know why yet or for how long. I'm waiting to hear from the signaller. I'll let you know when I hear anything more"
as opposed to nothing at all, which is obviously more annoying because then nobody knows whether it's a fault, a warning light somewhere. a breakdown, one under, an obstruction, industrial action......anything. If the driver makes an announcement even if he knows very little himself it is appreciated and he is doing his job well, most passengers are satisfied and nobody expects more.
That is simple common sense. Talk of needing management systems or signallers or better management or even Richard-bloody-Branson himself providing total information is actually secondary to the basics of simple communication. Lying to experienced commuters is probably the only thing worse than nothing and is counterproductive as others have said. A lot more good (and goodwill) can be done with what we already have. Talk to people. Even if you know very little, people are still reassured when they feel they are being given what is available. How many times does that simple and obvious message have to be repeated to staff before it gets through?

It is very true that any civilised human being will appreciate any information even if it isn't good news. Unfortunately some railway passengers (including quite a lot of London commuters) don't act like civilised human beings when something goes wrong and seem to think it is acceptable to hurl abuse at anybody they see in an orange Hi-Viz.