Wonderfully offensive article in the Torygraph

[Fred26]

I work for FCC. That's all.

 

[amcluesent]

The Toygraph article seems a pretty fair account. If you want to hear what TOC staff really think about the 'customer', sit in a 1st class carriage when they pile in to use their freebie tickets at shift change. A raucous 'canteen culture' of telling anecdotes quckly develops, ignoring the paying traveller who has shelled out ££££ to go 1st. Complete lack of thought.

 

[thefab444]

I work for FCC. That's all.

Ah, Atos then. :roll: Feel free to continue interupting the announcements.

 

[moonrakerz]

I gave up reading this thread half way through ------------ it just exemplifies, so well, what bedevils this country and is dragging it slowly, but surely, down the pan.

Someone writes an article in a newspaper. It is mostly, over the top hearsay.
This immediately stirs up one section of the community, who because the article appeared in a right wing newspaper accuse the author of all sorts of "toff" crimes.
This then stirs up the right wingers who then start throwing mud at the Daily Mirror readers...............and so on............. and so on................

For Pete's sake - grow up !!

Some rail staff are lazy, rude, greedy and arrogant - wouldn't it be nice if Bob Crow said that ?
Some senior rail management/investors are lazy, rude, greedy and arrogant - wouldn't it be nice if the board of First Group said that ?

Wouldn't it be nice if they actually worked together.............but..........

 

[Flamingo]

You forgot one thing - some passengers are lazy, rude, greedy and arrogant.

(or is that an inconvenient truth?)

 

[Tom B]

Although the original article is somewhat biased and Daily-Wail-esque, the points behind it remain valid. There are too many instances of passengers viewed as an irritating disturbance to playing trains/doing the crossword - rather than the people who pay £££ to use the service.

On a Hull Trains service once, sitting in the middle of nowhere with the engine off, I asked a passing stewardess if she knew when we might be moving - as I had a connecting bus to get. The response was she didn't have a clue, and I'd need to ask the guard. When I pointed out the guard was conspicuous by his absence she told me that if I didn't like the delay I could always get out and walk! Hull Trains are in a position most TOCs aren't, in that a large percentage of their route is duplicated by others - needless to say I shan't be taking them in a hurry.

 

[Flamingo]

OK, everybody has examples of staff not giving them the answer they wanted. I do too. I have also been called back from coach A (where I was dealing with a passenger who was having a panic about his flight, and working out a plan B for him) to coach F because some passenger wanted to buy a tube ticket and said he "needed the train manager urgently".

If you are on my trains, if I am not in sight it might be because I am in one of the other eight carriages, dealing with one of the other 400 passengers on the train. And possibly I have been making announcements, but your headphones were in, or you were on your mobile and didn't listen to them. There are occasions where I need to stay in a certain location to talk to the driver or monitor doors and signals, and do not have access to a PA from that location so I can't walk up and down the train to give the uniform an airing. This does not mean I am sitting in the buffet drinking tea.

Also, as an aside, my unwillingness to stand and listen to your rant for how crap trains are and how you have been late twice this week already may be because I have four hundred other passengers on board, and to divide my time evenly (and fairly) between them means that each one can only shout at me for 45 seconds, then it is someone else's turn (and I swear the next person who thinks they can be as rude as they like and excuse it by saying "Well, it's the TOC I'm angry at, not you, you are just the face of the TOC" will get a whack of my Bardic. )

 

[Tom B]

Being rude to staff is, of course, entirely out of order and passengers so inclined should probably expect rudeness back. However, I think what one person considers "rude" is what another may consider to be "sarcastic". A passenger who is - yet again - late for work is unlikely to be particularly chirpy!

As an aside, re: comments about RPIs at South Gyle not being paid to help passengers but check tickets - a passenger will (understandably) see them wearing a branded hi-vis jacket and consider them to represent "British Rail" (or insert this week's TOC name here). All staff who are identifiable as working for the railways ought to have responsibility for dealing with passengers - even if it's "sorry, I don't know, but Jim over there will be able to find out".

 

[CarterUSM]

Indeed, when I was a ticket examiner, one of the roles of the job was to be proactive about providing info in times of disruption, pointing someone in the right direction is all it takes as a bare minimum.

 

[4SRKT]

Anyway, in view of the tone of the article, I would say that it is very relevant.

It's not remotely relevant simply because the relationship between a paying user of a server and a paid provider of that service is entirely one sided. This may not seem 'fair' or whatever, but it is the nature of all commercial transactions, and why customer service needs to exist (i.e. to ensure that the customer gets what he pays for, or if that cannot be achieved, receives a good explanation why not).

 

[O L Leigh]

Merry Christmas.

I always take media reports with a pinch of salt, especially where it appears that there is an axe being ground. I am also aware that things are not always the way that they appear to be at first glance. A large number of members of staff huddled in a room are not necessarily just hiding from the punters.

Part of the problem with being proactive is getting through to Control in the first place. They are already fielding calls from all over the place in an effort to resolve whatever the problem is and get some semblance of a service running, so it is not at all unusual to get either an unanswered ringing tone or a number unavailable tone. Even if you are lucky enough to get through there often isn't much Control can tell you, particularly when someone is asking about specifics.

The reality of being helpful and proactive is telling the punters what the problem is and then being very vague about it's resolution. Questions like "When will this train leave?" or "How long will it take to fix the problem?" are unanswerable, which is not always what passengers want to hear. There is a case that someone might say that this is "giving no information" which could give the erroneous impression that no announcements were made when in fact the member of staff in question was being as helpful as he/she possibly could while trying to manage expectations.

A lot of the time staff feel frustrated because they feel stuck between the punters and Control. It's not an unwillingness to help but a genuine feeling of not having any way to provide help and being resentful of the fact that it's they who are getting the abuse and ear-battering when they are simply the messengers. It's a very unpleasant feeling when you've given your assurances that a train will run only for Control to decide that actually no it won't and you're the guy who has to pass that decision on.

I won't deny that there are jobsworths on the railway for whom customer service is a problem, but this doesn't mean that anyone giving poor service is a jobsworth. The railways are not like other service industries, so comparing them to restaurants and the like is utterly meaningless. Like the air transport sector, the railways have rules and regulations that govern safe operation, methods of diagramming or scheduling staff and assets, and operational vulnerabilities in certain conditions. This means that sometimes things have to be done that the consumer does not understand.

O L Leigh

 

[O L Leigh]

Fancy taking the bus-orientated chat elsewhere...?

O L Leigh

 

[Flamingo]

It's true, but completely irrelevant.

Anyway, in view of the tone of the article, I would say that it is very relevant.

 

[yorkie]

Fancy taking the bus-orientated chat elsewhere...?

O L Leigh

Agreed. It has now been moved elsewhere.

 

[moonrakerz]

You forgot one thing - some passengers are lazy, rude, greedy and arrogant.

(or is that an inconvenient truth?)

Totally agree - didn't mention passengers as they didn't seem to appear in the posts to date - same as I didn't mention footballers, Strictly contestants and The Royal Family

([Dis]Like your use of "Inconvenient Truth" - that links me to those "deniers" who don't believe all they hear about man-made global warming. Of course we all know that "deniers" are those who sided with the Nazis)

 

[Legzr1]

( Of course we all know that "deniers" are those who sided with the Nazis)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

 

[RPM]

When people complain about unhelpful station staff I do sometimes wonder if they actually spoke to a member of TOC staff at all. The trouble is punters see anyone in an orange HV vest as "railway staff" wheras in reality they could be builders, contract cleaners, pest control, trackwork/signalling contractors, those people who go round changing the poster advertisements etc. Ask any of the above the time of the next train and you are unlikely to receive a useful answer.

 

[4SRKT]

Totally agree - didn't mention passengers as they didn't seem to appear in the posts to date - same as I didn't mention footballers, Strictly contestants and The Royal Family

Nobody would disagree with this, but again I ask what is its relevance? Some people, be they railway staff or not, are lazy, rude and arrogant. That's life. The difference is, when passengers are doing it they are not at work, and are likely to be doing so when receiving poor service. If they acted like that at work one would hope they would be disciplined. There is simply no equivalance between a paid employee of the railway, whose behaviour must be exemplary, and a passenger, who, if thet are unreasonable without actually breaking the law, sadly has to be tolerated. And indeed assisted to the best of the railway employee's ability.

I don't work for the railway, but I do work in freight transport. When something cocks up for which I am nominally a spokesman, but in practice I have no direct control over, I have to go on conference calls with angry clients (who frequently have no idea what they're talking about) and apologise, devise 'strategies' (ha!) that I will put into place to prevent it happening again etc etc. This is a part of the game (and it is a game) that I dislike, but that I accept. Anyone involved in the provision of services has to be prepared to eat a sh*t sandwich every now and again if things go wrong.

 

[Flamingo]

A few months ago, everything was on stop leaving London (I can't remember the reason, probably the usual fatality / signal failure for whatever reason). My train had already boarded and I was waiting for the tip when the information came through. The station PA was going into overtime informing passengers of this, and I already had used the PA to tell the passengers on board.

It was about ten minutes after departure time, and I was standing alongside my train, when a very angry man approaches me on the platform (unbarriered), and shouts at me
"When is this train going to leave?"
"I'm sorry sir, I don't know, there has been a (whatever) and nothing is leaving for the moment".
"That's not good enough, ring your control and find out"
"They don't know either, we're waiting for the signaller to say the line is clear, I don't know when it will be"
"Well bloody well find out" he screams at me.

I walked over to the dispatch staff, who were starting to slink closer as this chap's body language is that he is going to hit me, discuss with them whether to call BTP or not, think of another solution and then walk back.

"The train will be leaving at 13.35 sir" (plucking a time out of the air).
"Why couldn't you have bloody well said that in the first place" and off he walks down the platform.

Indeed, why couldn't I?

I was visible, giving the information I had available in a fluid situation that was only just occurring, as was the PA, station staff were in evidence, but this gentleman still was demanding that I use my crystal ball.

How would anybody else suggest that I stop that gentleman (if he was a journalist) writing an article about how bloody useless the railway staff were, and how he had to demand his rights?

 

[Old Timer]

A few months ago, everything was on stop leaving London (I can't remember the reason, probably the usual fatality / signal failure for whatever reason). My train had already boarded and I was waiting for the tip when the information came through. The station PA was going into overtime informing passengers of this, and I already had used the PA to tell the passengers on board.

It was about ten minutes after departure time, and I was standing alongside my train, when a very angry man approaches me on the platform (unbarriered), and shouts at me
"When is this train going to leave?"
"I'm sorry sir, I don't know, there has been a (whatever) and nothing is leaving for the moment".
"That's not good enough, ring your control and find out"
"They don't know either, we're waiting for the signaller to say the line is clear, I don't know when it will be"
"Well bloody well find out" he screams at me.

I walked over to the dispatch staff, who were starting to slink closer as this chap's body language is that he is going to hit me, discuss with them whether to call BTP or not, think of another solution and then walk back.

"The train will be leaving at 13.35 sir" (plucking a time out of the air).
"Why couldn't you have bloody well said that in the first place" and off he walks down the platform.

Indeed, why couldn't I?

I was visible, giving the information I had available in a fluid situation that was only just occurring, as was the PA, station staff were in evidence, but this gentleman still was demanding that I use my crystal ball.

How would anybody else suggest that I stop that gentleman (if he was a journalist) writing an article about how bloody useless the railway staff were, and how he had to demand his rights?

Where I am currently working, with an attitude like that he would be swallowing the barrel of one of the security staffs pistol rather rapidly, and would then be frogmarched away by the Railway Police for a "talking to".

 

[Mojo]

Some people need to think about what questions they ask before they ask it; how is anyone supposed to know what will happen later?

 

[Flamingo]

But the journo in the original article was asking the same type of questions - maybe not in the same manner, although given the tone of his article, I would not like to say for definite that he was being calm, quiet and reasonable.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Where I am currently working, with an attitude like that he would be swallowing the barrel of one of the security staffs pistol rather rapidly, and would then be frogmarched away by the Railway Police for a "talking to".

Nice idea, but I probably deal with a few every day with attitudes like that. You can't shoot all of them, can you?

 

[Old Timer]

But the journo in the original article was asking the same type of questions - maybe not in the same manner, although given the tone of his article, I would not like to say for definite that he was being calm, quiet and reasonable.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Nice idea, but I probably deal with a few every day with attitudes like that. You can't shoot all of them, can you?

Only need to shoot one or two according to the man I was talking with, as he says, its sends the right message, i.e. dont come on the railway system and misbehave. Cant argue with that

 

[Hydro]

"Customers are reminded not to behave in a belligerent and aggressive manner. This is a Penalty Kneecapping area."

 

[Old Timer]

"Customers are reminded not to behave in a belligerent and aggressive manner. This is a Penalty Kneecapping area."

You should see how they deal with unruly football fans !

Immaculately dressed officer steps onto train, with a small contingent of pistol/rifle brandishing para-miliatary clad Railway police.

Points his swagger stick at troublemakers leader, who is immediately dragged from the train by two of said Police.

The attitude and body language simply sent out the message to his mates that if they wanted some of what was coming his way then they should say now or remain quiet.

Train leaves station, with a much subdued goup of supporters.

 

[Aictos]

You should see how they deal with unruly football fans !

Immaculately dressed officer steps onto train, with a small contingent of pistol/rifle brandishing para-miliatary clad Railway police.

Points his swagger stick at troublemakers leader, who is immediately dragged from the train by two of said Police.

The attitude and body language simply sent out the message to his mates that if they wanted some of what was coming his way then they should say now or remain quiet.

Train leaves station, with a much subdued goup of supporters.

Wow, sounds like bliss!

 

[4SRKT]

Anyway, however enjoyable fantasising about how wonderful a Police State would be is, it isn't really what the thread's about. If a passenger gets threatening or hits someone, then he has broken the law and it's a totally different story. None of the passengers in any of the examples given by me, the feature writer in the OP or anyone else have involved anyone getting violent or threatening. If a passenger gets sarky, that's not a crime.

The whole point of the thread is that railway staff shouldn't hide when things go wrong, and should make every effort to help, even if that help is no more than reassuring words. Many do in my experience, but a lot don't.

 

[Flamingo]

So if the passenger gets sarky (as you put it), that's OK, but of the staff get sarky back, thats...

(answers on a postcard please)

 

[Aictos]

Anyway, however enjoyable fantasising about how wonderful a Police State would be is, it isn't really what the thread's about. If a passenger gets threatening or hits someone, then he has broken the law and it's a totally different story. None of the passengers in any of the examples given by me, the feature writer in the OP or anyone else have involved anyone getting violent or threatening. If a passenger gets sarky, that's not a crime.

The whole point of the thread is that railway staff shouldn't hide when things go wrong, and should make every effort to help, even if that help is no more than reassuring words. Many do in my experience, but a lot don't.

My point is and always will be some staff will be highly visible while others will get the first mode of transport away and hide despite it being part of their job description to provide customer service!

I just try to deal with any disruption as best as I can under the circumstances.

 

[4SRKT]

So if the passenger gets sarky (as you put it), that's OK, but of the staff get sarky back, thats...

(answers on a postcard please)

Of course. Unfortunately that's the nature of customer service. I can't believe you have to ask! I'm genuinely shocked.

My point is and always will be some staff will be highly visible while others will get the first mode of transport away and hide despite it being part of their job description to provide customer service!

I just try to deal with any disruption as best as I can under the circumstances.

Absolutely. There's good and bad, and nobody (on these boards at least: I can't speak for newspapers) would disagree. That doesn't excuse the bad though, and the TOCs should do more to enforce the customer service ethos in all their staff.