WMR Class 196 Build and Implementation

[bnsf734]

i've never seen a Multi Only sign used before. so it may be a problem with the cab meaning it can only be used inside a set and not on the front.

In other 196 news I was in Nuneaton station yesterday getting 196002 for haulage (got all the 196/0 now) and noticed on the station whiteboard that the Nuneaton - Leamington service is now buses until Monday 10 December due to the ASLEF dispute.

Looks like I got 196002 just in time, for the time being anyway.

 

[marsker]

Could be for a multitude of reasons - from something as simple as a broken windscreen wiper.

 

[Peter Sarf]

i've never seen a Multi Only sign used before. so it may be a problem with the cab meaning it can only be used inside a set and not on the front.

In other 196 news I was in Nuneaton station yesterday getting 196002 for haulage (got all the 196/0 now) and noticed on the station whiteboard that the Nuneaton - Leamington service is now buses until Monday 10 December due to the ASLEF dispute.

Looks like I got 196002 just in time, for the time being anyway.

Ah. Now that means 196012 seems to be eluding me. How long ago and how often have you been aware of it in use ?. I was beginning to wonder if it is not even accepted !.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Ah. Now that means 196012 seems to be eluding me. How long ago and how often have you been aware of it in use ?. I was beginning to wonder if it is not even accepted !.

012 is on Hereford services today.

 

[bnsf734]

Peter

Just looked back through my records and I had 196012 on 1M61 10:40 Hereford - Birmingham on Wednesday 18 October. It was paired with 196006. I've not paid much attention to it after that date. That was the first and only time I've had it, and I'm not sure if its been on the Nuneaton - Leamington service.

Calvin

 

[Peter Sarf]

012 is on Hereford services today.

+

Peter

Just looked back through my records and I had 196012 on 1M61 10:40 Hereford - Birmingham on Wednesday 18 October. It was paired with 196006. I've not paid much attention to it after that date. That was the first and only time I've had it, and I'm not sure if its been on the Nuneaton - Leamington service.

Calvin

Thanks all. Been unlucky with that one then !.

I notice a bit of a slimmed down use of 196s today. Looks like NuCLe is busses and less on Hereford route. Strikes ?.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

+

Thanks all. Been unlucky with that one then !.

I notice a bit of a slimmed down use of 196s today. Looks like NuCLe is busses and less on Hereford route. Strikes ?.

Overtime ban at the moment.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Overtime ban at the moment.

Ah not a full strike !.

I went on Wednesday.
My plan was New Street from 16:50-18:26 as bags one 11 x 196 in ninety minutes.
I actually aim for 14:56 to 17:50 (three hours) with the above as backup or can do 15:56-17:56 (2 hours).
I wanted to avoid 1-9/11/2023 but was thinking strikes were now off !.

I can report a walk from Tyseley station to the depot road entrance let me id six 196s (need good light, steady hand/fence and binoculars).
A flypast of Tyseley on the Moor Street services revealed how well the dirt on the train windows shows up in the bright low sun !. There were about six more 196s mainly 2car but impossible to id ,even at close range, through the train windows in both directions. Ideally choose the services to/from Stratford rather than the Leamington services as the Leamington are on the pair of running lines further away from the sidings and you need to be able to look down from the running lines to the lower sidings. But a cloth to clean the window would be more use.

 

[newtownmgr]

So the current plan is this coming week (w/c 04/12) will see 1M57 07:32 Hereford - New St be worked by 2 x 196/0 on 3 days & a 3 car 172 for 2 days, the sets will go to Tyseley as booked & then the evening diagram starting with the 17:50 New St - Worcs should be a 4 car 196/1. Not sure what sets are doing what days as off all week, but if all goes to plan will put 5 x 196/1 at Worcs ready for the new timetable.

I believe 112 will be returning to Tyseley next week to be made ready for passenger use leaving 109 as the training unit for the last bit of training needed.

As per usual this is subject to the usual caveats & possible change due to the asos week.

 

[GWVillager]

So the current plan is this coming week (w/c 04/12) will see 1M57 07:32 Hereford - New St be worked by 2 x 196/0 on 3 days & a 3 car 172 for 2 days, the sets will go to Tyseley as booked & then the evening diagram starting with the 17:50 New St - Worcs should be a 4 car 196/1. Not sure what sets are doing what days as off all week, but if all goes to plan will put 5 x 196/1 at Worcs ready for the new timetable.

I believe 112 will be returning to Tyseley next week to be made ready for passenger use leaving 109 as the training unit for the last bit of training needed.

As per usual this is subject to the usual caveats & possible change due to the asos week.

Isn’t 1M57 usually 196 operated anyway? Why would it go to 172s for 3 days?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Isn’t 1M57 usually 196 operated anyway? Why would it go to 172s for 3 days?

As I interpret the post by @newtownmgr it is only the morning part of the diagram reverting to a three car 172 and for two not three days.
BUT the afternoon part of the diagram will be a single 4-car 196/1 instead of a pair of 2-car 196/0s (I assume on all five weekdays).

It means the pair of 196/0s or the single 172 will go to Tyseley at 09:29. Then a 196/1 leaves Tyseley at 17:26 to continue the daily diagram.

So it is part of the process of replacing all the pairs of 2-car 196/0s temporarily working Hereford etc services with the always planned 4-car 196/1s.
That has been while the 196/1s are modified to cope with the curve of the platform at University (extra guards panel being fitted mid unit to allow the guards to be on the train at a position that allows them to see the whole train length before dispatch).

Then it seems the 196/0s will have very little to do (just two on NuCLe - Nuneaton/Leamington-Spa) until late next year.

Thanks to @newtownmgr or the info and now I know why 109 and 112 have been eluding me !.

I have been more concerned with bagging the 196/0s before only 2 out of 12 are in use daily though !. So get the 196/0s while you can folks - probably very little time between 9 December (Post overtime bans etc) and full switchover (time table change maybe ?).

 

[newtownmgr]

As I interpret the post by @newtownmgr it is only the morning part of the diagram reverting to a three car 172 and for two not three days.
BUT the afternoon part of the diagram will be a single 4-car 196/1 instead of a pair of 2-car 196/0s (I assume on all five weekdays).

It means the pair of 196/0s or the single 172 will go to Tyseley at 09:29. Then a 196/1 leaves Tyseley at 17:26 to continue the daily diagram.

So it is part of the process of replacing all the pairs of 2-car 196/0s temporarily working Hereford etc services with the always planned 4-car 196/1s.
That has been while the 196/1s are modified to cope with the curve of the platform at University (extra guards panel being fitted mid unit to allow the guards to be on the train at a position that allows them to see the whole train length before dispatch).

Then it seems the 196/0s will have very little to do (just two on NuCLe - Nuneaton/Leamington-Spa) until late next year.

Thanks to @newtownmgr or the info and now I know why 109 and 112 have been eluding me !.

I have been more concerned with bagging the 196/0s before only 2 out of 12 are in use daily though !. So get the 196/0s while you can folks - probably very little time between 9 December (Post overtime bans etc) and full switchover (time table change maybe ?).

Correct. It’s the diagram that goes to Tyseley during the off peak so obviously the best way of swapping the units ready for the new timetable.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Correct. It’s the diagram that goes to Tyseley during the off peak so obviously the best way of swapping the units ready for the new timetable.

Does this mean units have been fitted with GOPs now, or just altered the stopping position temporarily?

 

[AJDesiro]

Does this mean units have been fitted with GOPs now, or just altered the stopping position temporarily?

They will be temporarily stopping at the 5-6 stop marker at University, which solves the issue, without needing GOPs to be installed. Whether they're still going to be getting GOPs or not, I do not know.

 

[Liam L]

They will be temporarily stopping at the 5-6 stop marker at University, which solves the issue, without needing GOPs to be installed. Whether they're still going to be getting GOPs or not, I do not know.

I would of thought GOPs would still be installed.

Stopping at a different stop marker shouldn't be a permanent solution imo. Mind you, it will be closer to the new entrance when it's ready for use.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Correct. It’s the diagram that goes to Tyseley during the off peak so obviously the best way of swapping the units ready for the new timetable.

So I take that to mean that by the time the new timetable starts there should be no 196/0s hanging around in the system (New St / Worcester / Hereford). Currently every day there has been 3 diagrams with pairs of 196/s and 2 diagrams with 172s in. So that is next week 4-8/12/2023 the daily 3 : 2 ratio dying away over those five days ?.

I assume that means there are going to be a lot of 196/0s with little to do for quite a while ?.

EDIT
removed

 

[newtownmgr]

So I take that to mean that by the time the new timetable starts there should be no 196/0s hanging around in the system (New St / Worcester / Hereford). Currently every day there has been 3 diagrams with pairs of 196/s and 2 diagrams with 172s in. So that is next week 4-8/12/2023 the daily 3 : 2 ratio dying away over those five days ?.

I assume that means there are going to be a lot of 196/0s with little to do for quite a while ?.

Thats the plan. Obviously the 2 cars will still be used between Leamington - Nuneaton and will fill in as required for the 4 cars on both Herefords & Shrewsbury’s. With 6 presumably still going to EWR at some point that will only leave 6 at WMT

 

[Peter Sarf]

Thats the plan. Obviously the 2 cars will still be used between Leamington - Nuneaton and will fill in as required for the 4 cars on both Herefords & Shrewsbury’s. With 6 presumably still going to EWR at some point that will only leave 6 at WMT

Thanks.

Also when EWR uses six 196/0s then the Camp Hill line will probably be up and running and using some (two ?) 196/0s. So with Nuneaton / Leamington using two 196/0s that will leave two 196/0s as spares for cover and maintenance.

With five 196/1s on Shrewsburys and Five (?) on Worcester/Herefords that leaves four 196/1s spare.

So I guess my understanding of above is a little wrong. I vaguely recall Nuneaton / Leamington eventually going over to 196/1s ?. Or is it Camp Hill I am wrong on ?.

Checking my understanding re Worcester :-
I have assumed there are five diagrams (some/all pairs of units) running Birmingham / Worcester / Hereford. Three using 196/0s and two using single/paired 172s. Will the end result be five single diagrams running a 196/1 on each ?. Or will there still be the odd (two ?) 172s in the mix ?.

 

[GWVillager]

So I guess my understanding of above is a little wrong. I vaguely recall Nuneaton / Leamington eventually going over to 196/1s ?. Or is it Camp Hill I am wrong on ?

Nuneaton - Leamington will remain /0s as far as I know, the platforms aren't long enough for 4 cars and the demand isn't really there.

Checking my understanding re Worcester :-
I have assumed there are five diagrams (some/all pairs of units) running Birmingham / Worcester / Hereford. Three using 196/0s and two using single/paired 172s. Will the end result be five single diagrams running a 196/1 on each ?. Or will there still be the odd (two ?) 172s in the mix ?.

That is the current situation (though the 172s are almost never paired). I've interpreted the new one as just /1s, too.

 

[newtownmgr]

Nuneaton - Leamington will remain /0s as far as I know, the platforms aren't long enough for 4 cars and the demand isn't really there.


That is the current situation (though the 172s are almost never paired). I've interpreted the new one as just /1s, too.

The knuckle services will stay as 2 car sets due to platform lengths.

As regards the 172 diagrams they are single 3 car sets. Obviously if required 172’s can still be used on New St - Herefords as & when needed.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Seems there are no 196/0s out today (Monday 04/11/2023) at all ?.

Presumably due to the strikes but I am wondering if there is any service at all out to Hereford ?.

 

[newtownmgr]

Seems there are no 196/0s out today (Monday 04/11/2023) at all ?.

Presumably due to the strikes but I am wondering if there is any service at all out to Hereford ?.

No strike on West Mids today or this week, just an overtime ban. Obviously with yesterday’s strike there were no overnight shed drivers at Worcester.

At the end of the day, drivers this week are merely working to their contract. Any delays & cancellations are down to the company not employing enough staff & ultimately the government for not allowing them to!

 

[GWVillager]

Seems there are no 196/0s out today (Monday 04/11/2023) at all ?.

Presumably due to the strikes but I am wondering if there is any service at all out to Hereford ?.

Yes, there is. However, cancellations are widespread and a diagram is operated by buses.

 

[Peter Sarf]

No strike on West Mids today or this week, just an overtime ban. Obviously with yesterday’s strike there were no overnight shed drivers at Worcester.

At the end of the day, drivers this week are merely working to their contract. Any delays & cancellations are down to the company not employing enough staff & ultimately the government for not allowing them to!

Thanks for the info.

So the strike is behind us (yesterday). I agree the level of reliance on overtime within the railways seems to have become unhealthy - both for the employer and for the staff. Not forgetting the passengers of course !.

I guess the Worcester/Hereford diagrams have got off to a slow start rather than being totally dead ?.

Yes, there is, I have just travelled on one! However, cancellations are widespread and a diagram is operated by buses.

Probably info not updated in the wee hours.

 

[172007]

Regarding what services are 196 or are going to be

Snow Hill drivers are going to sign 196's next year in anticipation of a few extra set ices to Great Malvern that will require 196 operation.

Camp Hill line services also sit with Worcester and Snow Hill train crew depots as the Camp Hill line services will only temporarily terminate at Birmingham New Street whilst the Midlands Rail Hub and Camp Hill chords are built allowing Moor Street to be the main Camp Hill Line city centre station.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Regarding what services are 196 or are going to be

Snow Hill drivers are going to sign 196's next year in anticipation of a few extra set ices to Great Malvern that will require 196 operation.

Camp Hill line services also sit with Worcester and Snow Hill train crew depots as the Camp Hill line services will only temporarily terminate at Birmingham New Street whilst the Midlands Rail Hub and Camp Hill chords are built allowing Moor Street to be the main Camp Hill Line city centre station.

I did not realise the 196s were going to get to the Snow Hill lines. Do you know when (roughly) ?. There was me thinking how logical it was that all the 196 services were centred on New Street (ignoring Nuneaton/Leamington) !.

 

[GWVillager]

I did not realise the 196s were going to get to the Snow Hill lines. Do you know when (roughly) ?. There was me thinking how logical it was that all the 196 services were centred on New Street (ignoring Nuneaton/Leamington) !.

They won’t be the dominant traction by any means, it’ll just be a few services mainly for operational convenience, like with the 170s.

 

[172007]

They won’t be the dominant traction by any means, it’ll just be a few services mainly for operational convenience, like with the 170s.

Correct.

The North Warwickshire line will not have 196's on Stratfrod OA services as wheel chair ramps cam only be used at the designated disabled area so services will not be able to call at the lakes as even a 2 car 172 is slightly too long to accommodate both carriages.

Nieve design I think as being able to use disables ramps at all doors would help in removing passengers who may have been taken ill on a train.

 

[newtownmgr]

As regards the unit swaps for 196’s at Worcester. Nothing has happened yet due to cancellations.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Morning,

Current/next workings are:

196001 and 012:
1V24 0950 Birm NS - Hereford

196102:
2J14 0956 Birm NS - Shrewsbury

196103:
2G09 0940 Shrewsbury- Birm NS

196105:
2J12 0856 Birm NS - Shrewsbury

196111:
2G06 0810 Shrewsbury - Birm NS

Thought I would add this info from the Non-Urgent TOPS request thread.

Looks like a slim service on the Hereford arm unless its a lot of 172s ?.