WMR Class 196 Build and Implementation

[LowLevel]

Internally EMR have been saying for a while that the next 170s they expect to arrive are the /2s from Wales so I don't expect anymore to transfer from WMR for a bit anyway - can't see any going back the other way either though, EMR have been cancelling trains due to fleet availability let alone shortforms.

 

[43102EMR]

196111 has now got 4 cars. It's a complete unit now.

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I've been told the 196s won't enter service until at least December 2023 now because of more problems and delays. Faults have been found apparently. Two units from EMR and Four units from ScotRail are apparently being brought back to help with the ongoing issues.

Yes would like to know your source? Unless you meant December 2022 which sounds more feasible…

 

[TrainTrackJack]

Reports of 2 units now on Worcester LMD.
Crew training about to begin?

 

[Sprinter107]

Reports of 2 units now on Worcester LMD.
Crew training about to begin?

I think its just lack of space at Tyseley. I only saw one there yesterday.

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The units

I have not heard anything, I immagine its a flippant remark from a member of staff over the 196's. I await @newtownmgr @Sprinter107 to reply.

I've not heard anything like that. The drivers I know who are doing route accumulation runs have said nothing to that effect.

 

[172007]

Reports of 2 units now on Worcester LMD.
Crew training about to begin?

Salop and New St crew first then Worcester is my understanding. A training plan has beem agreed from what I understand too.

 

[Liam L]

196101 is now at Worcester, presumably for storage?

Tyseley seems to have opened a another storage road for the 196s just next to main running lines.

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I've been told the 196s won't enter service until at least December 2023

where has this come from?

 

[duffman82]

Pure Wibble 2023. They will slowly be in service come mid/late 2022.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Wow, must be something pretty serious that's cropped up very recently given Head of Fleet only gave the Spring date in the last week.

Any idea of the nature of the faults?

I think the December 2023 think was a joke when I was having a conversation the other day which lead to my comment. I've been given false information about this so I apologies. Hopefully the 196s will be mid to late 2021.

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Whilst I’m not disputing the veracity of your claim, I’d be interested to know roughly where this information has come from as Dec 2023 is a huge leap — it’s nearly two years away! @newtownmgr @Sprinter107 anything you’d be able to corroborate?

I presume you’re referring to 170s when it comes to EMR and SR units.

I was lead with false information. My apologies. Hopefully mid to late 2021 for 196s.

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EMR doesn’t have enough units to run its Regional service as it stands; so it should not be handing back the relatively few 170s that it currently has.

If the 196 introduction is really this bad, WMR should have had foresight and either kept its 153s or taken some of EMR’s old 153s instead of poaching the newer stock that EMR has been so desperate to get its hands on. None of this is EMR’s fault; so EMR’s passengers shouldn’t have to suffer because of the 196 introduction issues.

I was lead false information sorry.

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Yes would like to know your source? Unless you meant December 2022 which sounds more feasible…

False information sorry.

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196101 is now at Worcester, presumably for storage?

Tyseley seems to have opened a another storage road for the 196s just next to main running lines.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jan 2022 ==


where has this come from?

False information sorry

 

[py_megapixel]

Hopefully the 196s will be mid to late 2021.
Hopefully mid to late 2021 for 196s

That would involve time travel, though I'm not quite sure how!

 

[Liam L]

I was lead with false information. My apologies. Hopefully mid to late 2021 for 196s.

It’s 2022 now btw…

 

[warwickshire]

EMR doesn’t have enough units to run its Regional service as it stands; so it should not be handing back the relatively few 170s that it currently has.

If the 196 introduction is really this bad, WMR should have had foresight and either kept its 153s or taken some of EMR’s old 153s instead of poaching the newer stock that EMR has been so desperate to get its hands on. None of this is EMR’s fault; so EMR’s passengers shouldn’t have to suffer because of the 196 introduction issues.

153s shouldn't be a issue as at nearby long marston there’s 6 ex wmt 153s and there’s at least 7 northern ones.
Off hand (unless I look at my list) at least around 6 or more ex emr 153 ones are in store there too.
Plenty of them in supply they can use.
However the only trouble is 153 wise, drivers and guards will need to relearn them which will take a while.
Never should have left.
However interesting to see iff 196 issues are the case how they will cope the games are now approaching.

 

[Nova1]

Weren’t the WMR/LM 153s non PRM compliant (no accessible toilet) so spent the last few months of their life in service just running behind 172s for spare capacity on peak?

 

[43102EMR]

Weren’t the WMR/LM 153s non PRM compliant (no accessible toilet) so spent the last few months of their life in service just running behind 172s for spare capacity on peak?

Not exactly - they were used all times of the day tagged to a 170 to operate whatever routes they operated (i.e. Hereford, Shrewsbury or to a lesser extent Snow Hill Lines)

 

[Wyrleybart]

EMR doesn’t have enough units to run its Regional service as it stands; so it should not be handing back the relatively few 170s that it currently has.

If the 196 introduction is really this bad, WMR should have had foresight and either kept its 153s or taken some of EMR’s old 153s instead of poaching the newer stock that EMR has been so desperate to get its hands on. None of this is EMR’s fault; so EMR’s passengers shouldn’t have to suffer because of the 196 introduction issues.

Assuming the 9th TfW 769 is now in the bin, they could still diagram two more 769s - ie six of the eight, freeing up at least two if not four 150/2s to release an equal number of TfW 170s to EMR.
Known as sweating the assets.

 

[craigybagel]

Salop and New St crew first then Worcester is my understanding. A training plan has beem agreed from what I understand too.

Presumably Wolves rather than New Street since they're the ones who work to Shrewsbury?

Assuming the 9th TfW 769 is now in the bin, they could still diagram two more 769s - ie six of the eight, freeing up at least two if not four 150/2s to release an equal number of TfW 170s to EMR.
Known as sweating the assets.

That would require getting 6 769s to reliably work every day.....

 

[newtownmgr]

Presumably Wolves rather than New Street since they're the ones who work to Shrewsbury?

That would require getting 6 769s to reliably work every day.....

All Traincrew at Shrewsbury,Wolves & Worcester to learn the 196’s plus top link only at New St

 

[craigybagel]

All Traincrew at Shrewsbury,Wolves & Worcester to learn the 196’s plus top link only at New St

Interesting - I was told last year (possibly by yourself?) on the driver knowledge thread there were no plans for New Street to learn 196s given that other than moves on and off Tysley they have little diesel work these days. I guess that plan changed.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Interesting - I was told last year (possibly by yourself?) on the driver knowledge thread there were no plans for New Street to learn 196s given that other than moves on and off Tysley they have little diesel work these days. I guess that plan changed.

Well if top link sign the route then they have no choice, unions won't let the work be taken off the depot!

 

[craigybagel]

Well if top link sign the route then they have no choice, unions won't let the work be taken off the depot!

My understanding was the top link were losing the route, but I did suspect as it was New Street that the Unions might be getting involved....

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

153s shouldn't be a issue as at nearby long marston there’s 6 ex wmt 153s and there’s at least 7 northern ones.
Off hand (unless I look at my list) at least around 6 or more ex emr 153 ones are in store there too.
Plenty of them in supply they can use.
However the only trouble is 153 wise, drivers and guards will need to relearn them which will take a while.
Never should have left.
However interesting to see iff 196 issues are the case how they will cope the games are now approaching.

WM Mayor and DofT won't want transport being an issue for games suspect other operators be directed to send them units.

 

[warwickshire]

WM Mayor and DofT won't want transport being an issue for games suspect other operators be directed to send them units.

Depending on which unit it is, they’ll need to sign and have knowledge of the units already. That said, other operators will be in the same position, they’re not going to be sending units due to the fact that they’ll need them themselves because tourists aren't here just for the two weeks of games. They’re here for the summer to see what Britain has to offer. So summer this year will be exceptionally busy.
It’s good to return leisure back to full demand but we all we know it maybe quite be possible that 196s are in place for the games (at least some of them) so maybe 170s can go afterwards when the demand drops?

 

[newtownmgr]

The plan regarding New St learning/not learning has changed repeatedly. The work was going back to Shrewsbury but as it stands now it isn’t. Things change. Originally Worcester was going to be the first depot to learn them but due to the delays & need to offload 170’s that changed to Shrewsbury etc! It’s the railway these things happen.

 

[craigybagel]

The plan regarding New St learning/not learning has changed repeatedly. The work was going back to Shrewsbury but as it stands now it isn’t. Things change. Originally Worcester was going to be the first depot to learn them but due to the delays & need to offload 170’s that changed to Shrewsbury etc! It’s the railway these things happen.

Indeed, and I'm grateful to people like you for keeping us updated! It also means I can keep the driver knowledge thread up to date.

 

[Class172]

Originally Worcester was going to be the first depot to learn them but due to the delays & need to offload 170’s that changed to Shrewsbury etc! It’s the railway these things happen.

Makes sense as Worcester additionally sign 172s so they can be used to cover a shortfall in units on the Hereford services, a luxury Shrewsbury doesn't have.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

That would involve time travel, though I'm not quite sure how!

2022 I meant.

 

[warwickshire]

Today 196106 196102 196109 196105 196108 are all parked on the tyseley Depot reception loop siding on the mainline outside the Depot after shunting around. Meanwhile in the yard opposite them was 172103.

 

[wobman]

I'm just wondering if anybody knows if wmt are going to use ASDO or SDO for door operations on their 196s???

I'm not sure what method of door working Northern use on their 195s.

 

[43102EMR]

I'm just wondering if anybody knows if wmt are going to use ASDO or SDO for door operations on their 196s???

I'm not sure what method of door working Northern use on their 195s.

I think it’s SDO for the 195s? Happy to be corrected though.

 

[jonnyfan]

I'm just wondering if anybody knows if wmt are going to use ASDO or SDO for door operations on their 196s???

I'm not sure what method of door working Northern use on their 195s.

Northern use a mix of both ASDO and SDO, depending on the station.

 

[wobman]

Northern use a mix of both ASDO and SDO, depending on the station.

I'm intrigued why don't Northern use ASDO on all stations ??