WMR Class 196 Build and Implementation

[william.martin]

Try Googling 'West Midlands Trains customer service' or 'WMT contact us' or some such. They are a customer facing organisation, it won't be hard to give them feedback, especially if there's some positives involved!

And do you think I should mention the driver letting me in the cab, I don't want him to get in trouble?

 

[newtownmgr]

And do you think I should mention the driver letting me in the cab, I don't want him to get in trouble?

Probably best not to mention it as it will get them in trouble. Shouldn’t really have mentioned it on here to be honest.

 

[AlexNL]

And do you think I should mention...

No, better to leave that out.

 

[92002]

Sadly sitting around waiting is not an option as I need to get to Shrewsbury by 10:30 although I was just wandering if there was any patterns.

The 1140 departure from Shrewsbury to Birmingham yesterday was 196108. So presumably arrived around 1100.

 

[subk2010]

Can confirm that 2J16 is operated by 196110 today. Saw another BHM-Shrewsbury Train today in the morning around 10am, but sadly it was operated by 2 coupled 170s.

 

[william.martin]

The 1140 departure from Shrewsbury to Birmingham yesterday was 196108. So presumably arrived around 1100.

I rode the 09:44 from Oakengates.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Had my first ride on the 196's today, I would score them a generous 8/10.

Pros:
• Beautifully quieter compared to there predecessor
• Gentle rocking helped me relax.
• quick acceleration
•Lovely new seats.
• Large almost TV like P.I.S's.
•Obviously being more modern
• Overall, they are just generally better than the 170's.


Cons:
• Ride is rough over junctions.
• No armrests!!!!
•Speakers playing announcements stupidly loud.
•196107 vibrating vigorously after being at a stand still for a long period of time. (Most likely a issue with this particular unit as 196102 was fine.)


I rode the trains (196102 outbound and 107 inbound) imbetween Oakengates and Shrewsbury resulting in a 20 minute journey.

Huge thanks to the lovely crew I met:

•The driver who let me have a look round the cab!
• The lovely senior conductor (whom hosted the video by WMR introducing these new trains.)

I miss the arm rests as well compared with the 170s. On Friday I had 110 from Birmingham New Street to Wolverhampton and we were late departing because the guard didn't have a driver (as the driver from Tyseley who drove it in left instantly) but apart from that the journey was fine no problems. However, it was meant to be another unit (not 110) but it failed so 110 was the replacement and due to the late off it the service was express from Wolverhampton to Shrewsbury only. I did notice like you mentioned that the automatic announcements were extremely loud. I also had 107 on my way home from New Street to Telford Central and the journey was fine no problems to report. Three 196's I've been on now. 101/107 and 110.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Interesting to hear someone else say they like the seats - I despise them. They seem to be a real marmite case.

I was on 102 several months ago and also noticed vibrations when stationary, is this something to do with the train being left in forward or would that never happen?

Off topic but was the Senior Conductor still wearing his 170 badge?

I like the seats as well. Deffinatley not "ironing board" seats like on the 700s. Much more comfortable in comparison.

 

[Liam L]

196109 is out in service today, I believe it’s first day in service?

 

[meld3]

Been out on these midday yesterday / today. 001 failed today and later replaced by 170's, 102 had no heating yesterday but ran with tannoy apologies.
Otherwise
PRO - ride quality infinitely better than the 195's. It like they discovered suspension was a real thing and built it into the 196's...
CON - the seats are a bit too narrow to sit next to someone else without shoulder rubbing, and just too upright to be comfy, compared to the 172/170 seats anyway.

7/10. good effort but no big step forward over a 170.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Been out on these midday yesterday / today. 001 failed today and later replaced by 170's, 102 had no heating yesterday but ran with tannoy apologies.
Otherwise
PRO - ride quality infinitely better than the 195's. It like they discovered suspension was a real thing and built it into the 196's...
CON - the seats are a bit too narrow to sit next to someone else without shoulder rubbing, and just too upright to be comfy, compared to the 172/170 seats anyway.

7/10. good effort but no big step forward over a 170.

170 fair enough, I’m not sure how anyone can say a 172 has comfortable seating

 

[Bletchleyite]

170 fair enough, I’m not sure how anyone can say a 172 has comfortable seating

I was about to say that, the seats in the 172s are horrid.

The FISA LEAN is just a Grammer E3000 Desiro seat on the cheap, almost but not quite as good. Quite thick backed, though, so bad on legroom unless you have skinny legs so can put them together and forward into the "niche". A nice idea but not the best design. Comfortable in a table or priority row though.

However the 196's decor is truly excellent, feels really nice and homely, like someone thought about it.

There are things that are better than the 170 - more luggage space, big overheads and no stupid thick windowsill pressing into your arm, plus the WMT 170s are quite tatty now with collapsed seat foams etc. I'd probably take one over a 170 overall.

 

[AlexNL]

However the 196's decor is truly excellent, feels really nice and homely, like someone thought about it.

That'd be down to Schoenemann Design and Sam Jessup.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Having had a couple of rides on these recently, there's not a great deal to add that hasn't already been said. I'm also lamenting the lack of arm rests, but find the interior finish generally pretty good. There are clearly some teething troubles. One odd observation from the other night - the carriage I was on was pretty warm/humid and strangely, on the overhead luggage shelves, they had positioned chemical dehumidifiers every couple of meters!
Like these:



I've never seen anything like it on a train in service. Presumably something with the air conditioning etc. on that unit was making it particularly humid?

Oh, the other thing I noted on one the other day was the screen in the carriage showing "NO HEADCODE ENTERED" in big block letters, instead of the usual helpful graphics. Whether that was a failure or someone just forgetting to key it in was not clear, but it didn't seem like it's the kind of message that would normally be customer-facing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is a problem with condensation on the door windows on CAF units as they're single glazed, but that seems overkill. Maybe it had a leaky roof?

 

[100andthirty]

There is a problem with condensation on the door windows on CAF units as they're single glazed, but that seems overkill. Maybe it had a leaky roof?

Single glazed doors? That sounds like an economy too far.

 

[Class172]

There is a problem with condensation on the door windows on CAF units as they're single glazed, but that seems overkill. Maybe it had a leaky roof?

I have to wonder why the door windows would only be single glazed, heat can escape just as easily from the vestibule as it can the seating area, even if the windows are smaller. It's not something I tend to look at on trains, but (CAF excepting) what has been the trend on other recent classes of stock, or even the 170s?

 

[MDB1images]

196109 is out in service today, I believe it’s first day in service?

Loooks like it, any idea what the first train 196109 worked?

Edit it was 2J02 05:56 New St-Shrewsbury

 

[Jammy Dodger]

Can't say what the stock is like (never been on a WMR train), but the bodyshells look very similar to the 730's! Will help with creating a uniform style I assume...

Also, that face... looks very droopy, from which the lights are slowly sliding towards the ground!

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Can't say what the stock is like (never been on a WMR train), but the bodyshells look very similar to the 730's! Will help with creating a uniform style I assume...

Also, that face... looks very droopy, from which the lights are slowly sliding towards the ground!

They're different manufacturers and are very different bodyshell... 730s seem to be a bit less tall.

 

[Jammy Dodger]

They're different manufacturers and are very different bodyshell... 730s seem to be a bit less tall.

I'm aware of that, CAF vs Bombardier/Alstom! They just seem to be very similar shapes, with near identical doors. I know it's just by chance, but seemed to funny not to mention!

Also, in terms of height, you are correct: 196 = 3.85m, 730 = 3.76m

 

[Techniquest]

I was about to say that, the seats in the 172s are horrid.

The FISA LEAN is just a Grammer E3000 Desiro seat on the cheap, almost but not quite as good. Quite thick backed, though, so bad on legroom unless you have skinny legs so can put them together and forward into the "niche". A nice idea but not the best design. Comfortable in a table or priority row though.

Bit In Bold - Really? I wouldn't say they were my favourite seat, right now that is the First Class seat on GWR in their 80x fleet. I haven't any major complaints about the seats on a 172 though, I've spent plenty of time sat on them in the time they've been on the Birmingham to Hereford route, and not insignificant amounts of time on them since they first entered service.

Thankfully I don't have the issue of legroom in any airline seat, with possible exception to those on a 150/1. I haven't used an airline seat on that class in a long time, so I can't comment fairly. I wouldn't say my legs are skinny, good gravy no. They're not enormous either! I often prefer the airline seats, just so I don't end up clashing with someone sat opposite me.

I've still to try the 196s, and indeed the 197s. So my opinion on them remains as neutral as is possible. I already like them for the colour scheme, so there is a bit of bias, but in terms of the journey I fully expect to make a balanced opinion. I'm surprised I haven't gone to try one out yet!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have to wonder why the door windows would only be single glazed, heat can escape just as easily from the vestibule as it can the seating area, even if the windows are smaller. It's not something I tend to look at on trains, but (CAF excepting) what has been the trend on other recent classes of stock, or even the 170s?

Always double glazed on anything since the Mk3 DMUs and EMUs bar the CAFs. I'd not look out for it in particular (I didn't for instance know my Ford Kuga has double glazed side windows until someone told me) but the steaming-up is quite obvious, a bit like you get on the opening bits on the Mk3 units.

 

[Liam L]

I was about to say that, the seats in the 172s are horrid.

TBF they are alright on short journeys which the units are designed for (on the snow hill lines), I did a return journey to Hereford on a 172, wasn't great but it wasn't bad at the same time. But each to their own.

 

[Liam L]

Anyone got any updates on how the progress of the fleet introduction is going? How many 'All day' diagrams are now covered by 196s on the Shrewsbury side?

 

[newtownmgr]

I have to wonder why the door windows would only be single glazed, heat can escape just as easily from the vestibule as it can the seating area, even if the windows are smaller. It's not something I tend to look at on trains, but (CAF excepting) what has been the trend on other recent classes of stock, or even the 170s?

They are NOT single glazed. All passenger & door windows are double glazed as per safety requirements!! The dehumidifiers are on the units that haven’t been in service yet as they got cold whilst stabled.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They are NOT single glazed. All passenger & door windows are double glazed as per safety requirements!! The dehumidifiers are on the units that haven’t been in service yet as they got cold whilst stabled.

They are single glazed. They may be laminated, though, which is what safety regulations require (at least as far as road vehicles go). Actually look at them when you see them.

 

[Class172]

They are NOT single glazed. All passenger & door windows are double glazed as per safety requirements!! The dehumidifiers are on the units that haven’t been in service yet as they got cold whilst stabled.

As I mentioned in an earlier post I have not seen these units in the flesh, so am only offering my thoughts based on anecdotal evidence. You seem to have interpreted my comment as factual which I assure you it is not.

Have the dehumidifiers been required much since, or was it a symptom of being unused specifically during the sub-zero cold snap we had recently?

 

[Halish Railway]

On the topic of humidity, I do notice that Northern's Class 195s always seem to be quite stuffy, whilst the electric Class 331 equivalents seem to be fine. Perhaps there's a common issue with Diesel Civities that makes them quite humid inside.

 

[newtownmgr]

They are single glazed. They may be laminated, though, which is what safety regulations require (at least as far as road vehicles go). Actually look at them when you see them.

The units i trained on last week certainly looked double glazed to me. Yes they will have a protective coating but a stone can still penetrate the outer skin.