Without HS2 Phase 2b, how can frequencies be increased through South Manchester?

[Purple Orange]

With HS2 phase 2b delivery seemingly light years away, what can be done now to increase frequency on the lines from Stoke & Crewe in to Manchester? At Cheadle Hulme station there are just 3 tph to Piccadilly, with a further 6 tph passing through that do not stop.

In an ideal world, I would like to see 4 tph Manc-Macclesfield/Stoke and 4 tph Manc-Alderley Edge/Crewe, all stops. But alas I know we can’t have everything and a proper metro service is one of them.

 

[Ianno87]

No other credible option than adding two entirely new tracks from South of Cheadle Hulme somewhere to central Manchester with platform capacity to match.

Sounds familiar...

Seriously, the only even potentially viable alternative I can think of would be tram-training the Mid-Cheshire line and sending it via Sale. Which buys a mighty one path per hour.

Maybe doing the same for the Buxton line and sending via East Didsbury (with a hefty journey time impact).

Or re-routeing the Hope Valley fasts via Marple and either into 1-4 at Piccadilly or via Philips Park into Victoria 1/2.

 

[miami]

I guess the problems are

• Capacity at Picadilly
• Tracks from Stockport to Picadilly
• Tracks from Stoke to Stockport
• Tracks from Crewe to Stockport
• Mixing fast trains (2tph to Crewe, 4tph to Stoke?) with stopping trains

You might be able to run a Stockport-Macclesfield service into platform 0 if there's enough room? Or a Stockport-Crewe with a new south facing bay platform? But you'll still be adding problems with the WCML, XC and Wales services.

Is there room to reroute the Wales service from Crewe up via Chat Moss into Victoria, reroute a XC via Crewe, and add a stopper from Picadilly, Stockport, then all stops to Macclesfield? How much extra time would that add to the Wales service?

Just thinking about it makes me realize how critical HS2 is.

 

[Purple Orange]

I wonder if a tram line was built from Manchester to Stockport via Levenshulme and Heaton Chapel would help? This would be giving those residents 12 trams per hour (a longer journey time) and would be better than the 4 tph they currently see and often are unable to board.

In addition to tram-train on the Marple lines would, in that scenario enable more services from Stockport to run?

 

[JonathanH]

Is there room to reroute the Wales service from Crewe up via Chat Moss into Victoria

Isn't there just as much congestion on that side of Manchester (if not more) than on the existing route via Wilmslow?

 

[Ianno87]

I wonder if a tram line was built from Manchester to Stockport via Levenshulme and Heaton Chapel would help? This would be giving those residents 12 trams per hour (a longer journey time) and would be better than the 4 tph they currently see and often are unable to board.

Wouldn't enable more trains, just free up space on existing ones.

In fact, closing the stations would remove alot of the point of Stockport-Slade Lane being 4 tracks! Trains still need to squeeze north of Slade Lane and through the Edgeley junctions

 

[Chester1]

Wouldn't enable more trains, just free up space on existing ones.

In fact, closing the stations would remove alot of the point of Stockport-Slade Lane being 4 tracks! Trains still need to squeeze north of Slade Lane and through the Edgeley junctions

Piccadilly to Slade Lane could be 6 tracked, the 4 track section is about half a mile + through Longsight. If Heald Green was rebuilt as a Manchester Airport Parkway with 4 platforms then that might be enough to divert the TfW and Avanti (via Crewe) to avoid Stockport. Not good value for just 2 paths!

 

[Bletchleyite]

One option to increase capacity on the slows would be to have all slow-line trains call at Levenshulme and Heaton Chapel. Same towards the Airport. If all trains do the same thing, you can just keep feeding them in - look at the 1-2 minute intervals on the Tube.

Another way is skip stopping rather than having all-stations locals (which is what is done on the Airport line).

But if you mean "how do we get more trains stopping at Cheadle Hulme" is there any reason for that? 3tph seems adequate, you could possibly go to 4 but I don't see why you'd go any further, I don't see why it needs more than a typical suburban Merseyrail station.

 

[Purple Orange]

One option to increase capacity on the slows would be to have all slow-line trains call at Levenshulme and Heaton Chapel. Same towards the Airport. If all trains do the same thing, you can just keep feeding them in - look at the 1-2 minute intervals on the Tube.

Another way is skip stopping rather than having all-stations locals (which is what is done on the Airport line).

But if you mean "how do we get more trains stopping at Cheadle Hulme" is there any reason for that? 3tph seems adequate, you could possibly go to 4 but I don't see why you'd go any further, I don't see why it needs more than a typical suburban Merseyrail station.

I would argue that the market for train services in to Manc from Cheadle Hulme is far larger than 4 tph. Stations south of it should have 4 tph, let alone cheadle hulme itself. The area is akin to Sale and Altrincham, which if it was still heavy rail would likely just have as poor a service as Cheadle Hulme, when rather it enjoys a far greater service with metrolink.

 

[Ianno87]

One option to increase capacity on the slows would be to have all slow-line trains call at Levenshulme and Heaton Chapel. Same towards the Airport. If all trains do the same thing, you can just keep feeding them in - look at the 1-2 minute intervals on the Tube.

Another way is skip stopping rather than having all-stations locals (which is what is done on the Airport line).

But if you mean "how do we get more trains stopping at Cheadle Hulme" is there any reason for that? 3tph seems adequate, you could possibly go to 4 but I don't see why you'd go any further, I don't see why it needs more than a typical suburban Merseyrail station.

Homogenising capacity only adds capacity if north of Slade Lane were 6 tracks, and the Edgeley Junctions were sorted out. And there were platform capacity at Piccadilly. And south of Cheadle Hulme.