Windsor lines platform extensions - update

[Goldfish62]

Work has now started in earnest on platform extensions at Ashford and North Sheen, with some preparatory work in evidence at Whitton.

There must, surely, be an announcement from DfT soon on the extra rolling stock.....

 

[Urban Gateline]

Work has now started in earnest on platform extensions at Ashford and North Sheen, with some preparatory work in evidence at Whitton.

There must, surely, be an announcement from DfT soon on the extra rolling stock.....

Is Sunnymeads getting extended too? I always remember that as being the station where only about 4 coaches would have their doors on the platform!

Why the extensions anyway? Are they planning on running longer trains on the Windsor line?

 

[Ivo]

Unless something has changed, the 458s to Reading are being supplemented with former Gatwick Express coaches from the near-identical 460s. These services will run at 10 car length (five per set).

 

[jopsuk]

That's never, ever, been confirmed. Merely proposed ( I think it is an official bid- possibly, oddly, by Siemens?) but there is a competing proposal that involves 456s (not sure what Southern would get in return!).

 

[wibble]

Work has now started in earnest on platform extensions at Ashford and North Sheen, with some preparatory work in evidence at Whitton.

There must, surely, be an announcement from DfT soon on the extra rolling stock.....

Didn't Network Rail have to make provision in its budget for the platform extensions? In which case, they might be carrying out the work irrespective of when, or if, the DfT make a decision...

 

[swt_passenger]

Didn't Network Rail have to make provision in its budget for the platform extensions? In which case, they might be carrying out the work irrespective of when, or if, the DfT make a decision...

Platform lengthening for the entire SWT suburban network is budgeted for, and I believe that if it is starting there must now be a plan agreed for rolling stock.

My reasoning is this - if you go through the December 2010 update to NR's CP4 enhancements plan, there are a number of projects listed that are explicitly postponed 'pending agreement about rolling stock to be used' - mainly in the NW and NE. However the SWT area projects aren't described this way - and if starting now they are running to the current planned dates.

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Is Sunnymeads getting extended too? I always remember that as being the station where only about 4 coaches would have their doors on the platform!

'Use of SDO will continue'

Why the extensions anyway? Are they planning on running longer trains on the Windsor line?

Yes - by Dec 2011 according to the plan (mentioned above)
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...nhancements Document December 2010 update.pdf
Pages 79-83 lists all the affected stations, and those where SDO will continue - it's a lot of work...

 

[jrhilton]

What about the 455s going from four to five car units to then give ten car trains? Where were/are the extra carriages going to come from, or is that idea now scrapped?

 

[SWT_USER]

I'm about to move to Isleworth so if they could kindly extend the platforms to take at least 8 coaches on a Desiro it would be appreciated.

 

[wibble]

What about the 455s going from four to five car units to then give ten car trains? Where were/are the extra carriages going to come from, or is that idea now scrapped?

That would require significant remodelling at Waterloo. To lengthen the Main Suburban platforms (1-4), they would lose a platform and have to remodel the points outside the station. If SWT lose a platform, it would have an impact on performance (i.e. less flexibility) so would require platform 20 at Waterloo International. Nothing wil happen at International until the DfT makes a decision!

 

[Goldfish62]

H

That would require significant remodelling at Waterloo. To lengthen the Main Suburban platforms (1-4), they would lose a platform and have to remodel the points outside the station. If SWT lose a platform, it would have an impact on performance (i.e. less flexibility) so would require platform 20 at Waterloo International. Nothing wil happen at International until the DfT makes a decision!

Well, actually platform 20 is available should SWT wish to use it, but I believe this work would require more of the international platforms.

 

[bnm]

My reasoning is this - if you go through the December 2010 update to NR's CP4 enhancements plan, there are a number of projects listed that are explicitly postponed 'pending agreement about rolling stock to be used' - mainly in the NW and NE. However the SWT area projects aren't described this way - and if starting now they are running to the current planned dates.

Call me cynical, but in what part of the country do most of the DfT civil servants and NR bigwigs live? Might explain why CP4 enhancements are coming along nicely in the south.....

 

[jrhilton]

That would require significant remodelling at Waterloo. To lengthen the Main Suburban platforms (1-4), they would lose a platform and have to remodel the points outside the station. If SWT lose a platform, it would have an impact on performance (i.e. less flexibility) so would require platform 20 at Waterloo International. Nothing wil happen at International until the DfT makes a decision!

True, but SWT have already submitted a proposal to the DfT to run ten car trains on much of their suburban route, so the extra stock for the 455s which cover most of the routes involved must be coming from somewhere, hence my original question, where?

 

[swt_passenger]

Call me cynical, but in what part of the country do most of the DfT civil servants and NR bigwigs live? Might explain why CP4 enhancements are coming along nicely in the south.....

Surely if they were 'coming along nicely' there'd be some rolling stock involved though - as it is the infrastructure has been delayed a couple of times since it was first mentioned in the route business plan a few years ago.

Still no confirmation of trains - and of course neither the '458/460' proposal or the various '455/456' proposals provide the 140 carriages that were originally quoted - even if they do both.

There was a rumour, following a trial run a couple of years ago, that they could adjust some 455s into 3 and 5 car sets and run 3+3+4 or 5+5. But of course that still reduces the overall number of unit 'sets' that could be diagrammed.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That would require significant remodelling at Waterloo. To lengthen the Main Suburban platforms (1-4), they would lose a platform and have to remodel the points outside the station. If SWT lose a platform, it would have an impact on performance (i.e. less flexibility) so would require platform 20 at Waterloo International. Nothing wil happen at International until the DfT makes a decision!

Despite all the bad PR about the WIT the Waterloo work is clearly shown (and always has been shown - linked report above^^^) - same as all the various inner suburban stations - but work at Waterloo can be staged differently, because there are already some 10 car platforms on the 'high side'.

 

[Bastiaan]

There was a rumour, following a trial run a couple of years ago, that they could adjust some 455s into 3 and 5 car sets and run 3+3+4 or 5+5. But of course that still reduces the overall number of unit 'sets' that could be diagrammed.

They could reform all 91 sets into 46 three car sets en 45 five car sets, so they could run combinations of 3, 5, 6, 8 or 10 cars long.

 

[Matt Taylor]

There are no proposals to lengthen the platforms at either Sunnymeads or Isleworth. The problem at Isleworth is that the existing platform is raised on a bridge and it has significant bridges at either end. Sunnymeads is, frankly, a PITA from an operating perspective as you cannot see the signal from the platform in the up direction, and because the station is an island platform it will be impossible to lengthen to ten cars without altering the track layout. Unfortunately the low patronage at Sunnymeads simply does not warrant the expenditure.

 

[swt_passenger]

They could reform all 91 sets into 46 three car sets en 45 five car sets, so they could run combinations of 3, 5, 6, 8 or 10 cars long.

Yes, but that doesn't provide any extra overall capacity. The 91 units provide 364 carriages, if for every train increased to ten car you have a balancing one running as 6 car there's no point. You have to look at the whole 3 hour peak period, if trains are of different sizes at different times people will gravitate towards the longer trains, so there'd be no real benefit.

Increasing most or nearly all the 455 diagrams to ten car needs either another 70 compatible carriages - or you change a couple of the inner suburban routes over to a different type of stock that is yet to be ordered...

 

[ChampsRacing]

Regarding the suburban side only being able to hold 8 car 455s i did hear a thought at one point of making them 10 car platforms and moving the network rail hut near the south sidings to make the track more direct into them but nothing came of that.
As for extra stock im at a loss and thats from an swt employee

 

[swt_passenger]

Regarding the suburban side only being able to hold 8 car 455s i did hear a thought at one point of making them 10 car platforms and moving the network rail hut near the south sidings to make the track more direct into them but nothing came of that.

Depends what you read really, most NR documents available online for the last few years refer to closing the current P1 and P2, and remodelling the S&C in the throat so that current 3-6 become the main suburbans, at 10 car length. Then every other platform's 'normal allocation' would step over by two - with two on the Windsor side bumped into the international station.

However another NR report in April 2010 then reckoned that 1-4 could be extended in situ, at least to ten car - which obviously has less implications for the international platforms.

It seems to me they need to make a big decision on the relative costs of altering things for 10 car now and then having to do it all again for 12 car in the future, or just do it properly in the first place.

The latest March 2011 update to the enhancements plan still has P1 & 2 closing.