Windows

[Fred26]

Question - How can people sit on a hot train with the windows closed? Twice yesterday I boarded an FCC train to find most, if not all the windows in the carriage closed. If I had been one of the first on, I'd have opened them all, but I wasn't so had to content myself with just opening the window above my head.
It was very warm yesterday and the train coming back from Kings Cross was hot and stuffy. In the section where I was sitting three of the four windows were open and it was fine... until the couple sitting opposite decided to close all the windows. They did ask and no-one else had a problem with it, but I was hot and didn't want to get any hotter. I refused. She closed the window anyway, but I reopened it. Her other half then tried to stare me out. It was pathetic.
I wouldn't have minded so much if they were pensioners, but they were in their late twenties maximum! She ended up putting her coat on. It made me feel hot just looking at her.
I really don't understand how people can merrily sit in the heat of a train with no fresh air and no cooling breeze. It's bad enough this time of year, but the problem will still be there in July.

 

[starrymarkb]

This is why new stock has Aircon. However, the hoppers do cause draughts which affect people not directly by them..

 

[Zoe]

I have been on trains before where it has been a hot day but when I opened a window, another passenger asked for it to be closed. Would be interested to know if there are ever any arguments about the use of the blinds on Voyagers and Pendolini.

 

[philjo]

On the FCC fast services from KX you can get some extreme draughts and also variable air pressure due running at 100mph through the number of tunnels between Alexandra Place and Potters Bar plus the 2 at Welwyn.
Unless the weather is more than 25 degrees outside I find it is preferable for most of the windows to be closed as inside the 365s the draughts can be too strong - especially though a couple of the tunnels where the fast tracks share the same bore (e.g. Welwyn & one near Barnet) when an East Coast train is going the other way at the same time! (in these cases a lot of the windows slam shut anyway due to the pressure difference) The rapid pressure changes can cause problems with my ears.

The main exception is in the evening peak hours during the summer some 365 sets come in to Kings Cross with all of the windows closed & have obviously been in Hornsey sidings in the sun all day as they are like an oven inside & then you do want to cool down!

In the 317s it doesn't make much difference if they are open or closed as the windows are so small they don't create much draught & the doors leak air anyway in the tunnels!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I find it quitre comfortable in hot weather - would prefer the heat to a draught any day; quite often if there is one carriage on the train with the aircon not working, that'll be the one you find me in...

 

[HST Power]

I find it quitre comfortable in hot weather - would prefer the heat to a draught any day; quite often if there is one carriage on the train with the aircon not working, that'll be the one you find me in...

I agree. Rather be hot than be cold every day of the year!

 

[yorksrob]

Personally I prefer a droplight for ventilation. One thing I've never understood was why sliding ventilators were replaced in favour of hoppers. The hoppers always seem to be much more draughty.

 

[Fred26]

Blimey, I thought I'd get resounding support! It's not about hot vs. cold, but being comfortable sitting in a stuffy atmosphere. I don't want to be cold anymore than the next passenger.

 

[Flamingo]

I was once on a bus (20+ years ago) on a steaming hot summers day, no air-con, but every time anybody opened a window, a nasty old woman closed it and gave them a mouthful about she'd just had her hair done and wasn't having it messed up by the wind.

Everybody sat there sweltering until we were nearly at the final destination, when some woman leaving the bus put her hand down and muzzed the old bats hair as she walked past!

There was a muffled cheer, and many sniggers. When the old bat went down to get the driver, everybody denied having seen anything!

 

[Bald Rick]

The hopper windows also let in quite a lot of wind noise when the train is near top speed - that's why I prefer them closed in anythng short of about 25C.

A linked issue though is trans with the heaters still on when it is a perfectably reasonable temperature wthout.

 

[Fred26]

The heaters were on yesterday, but that's neither here nor there. My train yesterday was like an oven from Kings Cross. 25C will be horrific.

 

[Goldfish62]

Travelling on a 365 at speed with the windows open is a pretty unpleasant experience, IMO, not only because of the draft, but also because the noise levels can be horrendous. On the services they operate they really should have air-con.

 

[Fred26]

Travelling on a 365 at speed with the windows open is a pretty unpleasant experience, IMO, not only because of the draft, but also because the noise levels can be horrendous. On the services they operate they really should have air-con.

They should have aircon, but they don't, so the windows are better than nothing.

 

[asylumxl]

I do not mind one or two windows being open, but when someone opens manyl, I'll be honest, it irritates me. Just because they are hot it does not mean everyone else is, and they will probably not appreciate the noise or the draft.

 

[87015]

Travelling on a 365 at speed with the windows open is a pretty unpleasant experience, IMO, not only because of the draft, but also because the noise levels can be horrendous. On the services they operate they really should have air-con.

Prefer windows open to drown out loudmouths/phones/iPods etc which are much more off-putting than wind noise. 'horrendous' seems massively OTT.

 

[Greenback]

Blimey, I thought I'd get resounding support! It's not about hot vs. cold, but being comfortable sitting in a stuffy atmosphere. I don't want to be cold anymore than the next passenger.

No doubt you did think that Fred, or you wouldn't have posted it! But not everyone may be as hot or find it as stuffy, it's very much a personal thing. Someone's pleasant breeze may be extremely irritating to someone else. I'v ebeen on buses whcih have been hot one minute, then freezing cold when they;ve got going as all the windows have been opened while it was stationary.

 

[Flamingo]

Prefer windows open to drown out loudmouths/phones/iPods etc which are much more off-putting than wind noise. 'horrendous' seems massively OTT.

You have never gone through Patchway tunnel in a 143 then!

 

[Fred26]

No doubt you did think that Fred, or you wouldn't have posted it! But not everyone may be as hot or find it as stuffy, it's very much a personal thing. Someone's pleasant breeze may be extremely irritating to someone else. I'v ebeen on buses whcih have been hot one minute, then freezing cold when they;ve got going as all the windows have been opened while it was stationary.

Indeed. Freezing cold may be a bit far-fetched though.

 

[causton]

I require a constant breeze - and love standing next to the ventilation window at the end of tube carriages to achieve this

 

[LE Greys]

Blimey, I thought I'd get resounding support! It's not about hot vs. cold, but being comfortable sitting in a stuffy atmosphere. I don't want to be cold anymore than the next passenger.

We may be in a minority, but I support you on this. Heat is not only uncomfortable, it makes things rather odoriferous. I'd much rather be on a cold, draughty train than a warm one smelling of sweat.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Travelling on a 365 at speed with the windows open is a pretty unpleasant experience, IMO, not only because of the draft, but also because the noise levels can be horrendous. On the services they operate they really should have air-con.

I actually find that rather exhilarating, but then I'm the sort of person who would drive with the roof down in November.

 

[SS4]

Question - How can people sit on a hot train with the windows closed? Twice yesterday I boarded an FCC train to find most, if not all the windows in the carriage closed. If I had been one of the first on, I'd have opened them all, but I wasn't so had to content myself with just opening the window above my head.
It was very warm yesterday and the train coming back from Kings Cross was hot and stuffy. In the section where I was sitting three of the four windows were open and it was fine... until the couple sitting opposite decided to close all the windows. They did ask and no-one else had a problem with it, but I was hot and didn't want to get any hotter. I refused. She closed the window anyway, but I reopened it. Her other half then tried to stare me out. It was pathetic.
I wouldn't have minded so much if they were pensioners, but they were in their late twenties maximum! She ended up putting her coat on. It made me feel hot just looking at her.
I really don't understand how people can merrily sit in the heat of a train with no fresh air and no cooling breeze. It's bad enough this time of year, but the problem will still be there in July.

Finally, someone who agrees with me! Commuter trains are often warm all year round due to body heat yet nobody understands this, if it's cold outside it must therefore be cold inside :roll:. The worst weather of the year will be coming soon so perhaps TOCs could simply lock them open (end wishful thinking since there are probably myriad reasons why they don't)

The second post is correct which is why I always open windows ahead and/or behind if I can't get away with the whole carriage yet I'm always considerate as to others when opening windows further.

That being said I'm one of the few people that enjoy the cold and soon I will have to suspend going outside for non-essential tasks due to poor weather until the clocks go back
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

We may be in a minority, but I support you on this. Heat is not only uncomfortable, it makes things rather odoriferous. I'd much rather be on a cold, draughty train than a warm one smelling of sweat.

Add me to that minority. Cold is relative anyway - if there's no snow or ice, it's not cold

 

[Greenback]

Indeed. Freezing cold may be a bit far-fetched though.

That's the point! People's perceptions may be quite different - I am more susceptibel to cold than I used to be, and my personal preferenc eis that I'd rather be too warm than too cold!

I wa son an Itlain train in my youth which was absolutely stifling (even by my standards). Every time I opened the window in the corridor one of the other passengers shut it again! There were no words exchanged, it just became obvious that no one else wanted any ventilation!

 

[starrymarkb]

For Daughty hoppers I noticed that TGV-Sud-Est sets have been fitted with hoppers - 300 km/h with hoppers open anyone?

 

[387star]

Ah those tunnels on the ECML. I took a WAGN 365 to Kings Lynn (sp/) in 2001 and newspapers flew everywhere was quite something- pretty much a whirlwhind

 

[BestWestern]

I have to say on a hot day I'd much rather be sat on a 150 with the hoppers open than on a 158 with hopeless air-con and a maximum of four windows (depending on how many of the hoppers have bent brackets! :-/ ) to let in a tiny amount of air. It's noisy, but the ability to sit in some degree of comfort more than makes up for it!

 

[Bittern]

I use the Argyle Line often, and having the windows on a 334 or 318 open is fine until you reach Dalmarnock, because that's when you begin sink into the abyss that is the Argyle Street Tunnels with two breaks - one for Bridgeton station and another for the former Glasgow Green station, and that's even worse when you're on a Larkhalll express which doesn't call at Dalmarnock or Bridgeton.

Passing through that tunnel at that speed is loud as hell, so windows tend to get closed until the train clears it at Finneston.

 

[12CSVT]

Hopper ventilation is totally unsuitable for trains that run at high speeds due to the extreme draughts. I don't understand why the TOCs don't go back to using sliding windows (such as on the mk1s and mk2s) where this wasn't such a problem.

Perhaps an example of where railway technology has gone backwards since the 1950s.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Wasn't that because the HSE were worried about people sticking their heads out of the sliding vents? Although of course you could always have narrow vents that won't open beyond about 6 inches?

 

[button_boxer]

The trouble with hopper windows is that opening the window above a given seat doesn't really affect the occupant of that seat but it causes a gale about two or three seats behind. Somebody who feels too warm will naturally open their window when what they should really do is ask the person two seats in front of them to open theirs instead. But psychologically this is a very difficult thing to ask...

 

[Hydro]

Wasn't that because the HSE were worried about people sticking their heads out of the sliding vents? Although of course you could always have narrow vents that won't open beyond about 6 inches?

Just have new sliders restricted to open as far as the lines that indicated "For draught free ventilation...." on old Mk1's and 2's.

Having an opening window is sometimes preferable to air con for me, because I like the movement of the air. I work some non-air con vehicles with droplights and sliding vent windows, and on a sweltering day it's nice to get a few open. It does get a bit loud through tunnels sometimes, especially with a pair of 37's on. I quite like that though!