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Windows or Chromebook?

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birchesgreen

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And adverts for Chromebooks (and any google advert that just seems to be saying that we are the best when they are far from it) that say how they are always updated and safe, yeah pull the other one, if I want a phone i'll buy a phone, otherwise I will stick with my much more versatile windows laptop.

Split from this thread:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/annoying-television-adverts.215491/


For many people a Chromebook is a much better choice than a Windows laptop, especially if they arn't very tech savvy and will rely on someone else to maintain it for themselves.

When my mum switched from Windows to Chromebook... ah was nirvana. :lol:
 
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dgl

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For many people a Chromebook is a much better choice than a Windows laptop, especially if they arn't very tech savvy and will rely on someone else to maintain it for themselves.

When my mum switched from Windows to Chromebook... ah was nirvana. :lol:
See for my mum it would be the complete opposite, plus I have a great distrust for Google, and don't trust the security of a google powered device.
Personally at the moment my only google powered device is my Grans Kindle Fire HD10, and that's only really used for the Ikea Smart app and the apps to control my digital mixers.
Naturally the one thing I like about Windows 10 is that I can have the latest version of Windows 10 running acceptably for web/email on a 13 year old machine!, naturally I have something much, much newer, my laptop is an i7 evo 2-in-1 that I only got a coupe of months ago, but my mums old boss has one of my old desktops that replaced an XP machine that got locked by scammers (though she lost no funds) and despite the hardware being from ~2008 it is still usable.
 

birchesgreen

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Chromebook security is fine, it is basically just a web browser anyway. I used a Pixel for years myself without any trouble. You can even install a proper Linux on it if so inclined.
 

py_megapixel

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See for my mum it would be the complete opposite, plus I have a great distrust for Google, and don't trust the security of a google powered device.
You must be the first person I have spoken to who has a great distrust for Google but apparently not for Microsoft.
 

AM9

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You must be the first person I have spoken to who has a great distrust for Google but apparently not for Microsoft.
Anybody who has a real distrust of a supplier of an operating system really should move over to Linux in one form or another. It's not that Linux is inherently safe for any technical reason, as the criminal community would happily move their nefarious activities to focus on it if thre wasn't such a large untapped supply of victims with commercial OS. What makes Linux relatively much safer is that it is used, maintained and tested by a huge user base of expert users. News of weaknesses, vulnerabilities and their consequential fixes travels fast. With no real commercial protectionist secrecy issues, there is a constant conversation across the expert user world to ensure that these fixes are implmented, - all at zero cost to the user.
Now I put my hands up here as I am a Microsoft user and at times resent some of the protection that is forced upon me by Microsoft and others, which probably has a commercial agenda that I am not aware of, but I am increasingly trying to use Linux based systems where they are practical, the primary thrust at the moment being with Raspberry Pi hardware.
 

najaB

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"Full fat" laptops are overkill for a very large percentage of users - they log on to social media, chat in an instant messenger, join video calls, stream videos and send/receive email. Pretty much all of which is going to be done in a browser or app. Why bother with a complete OS like Windows and the requirements that come with it? I did consider getting a Chromebook for my parents, it was only the fact that my remote support solution doesn't fully support them that kept them on Windows (for now).
 

Farang

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"Full fat" laptops are overkill for a very large percentage of users - they log on to social media, chat in an instant messenger, join video calls, stream videos and send/receive email. Pretty much all of which is going to be done in a browser or app. Why bother with a complete OS like Windows and the requirements that come with it?

100% this, but IMHO chromebooks have lost their way. It used to be possible to buy a budget chromebook with a decent IPS screen - not any more. And despite having 4Mb of memory, my latest chromebook hangs more frequently than older chromebooks with just 2Mb.

There's no longer any incentive for manufacturers to produce something which punches above its weight because they want to move consumers upmarket. Is there such a thing as a chromebook lite? I'm not aware of such a thing but I live in hope.
 

py_megapixel

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Anybody who has a real distrust of a supplier of an operating system really should move over to Linux in one form or another.
Which I have done :)
1640966973321.png

Now I put my hands up here as I am a Microsoft user and at times resent some of the protection that is forced upon me by Microsoft and others, which probably has a commercial agenda that I am not aware of, but I am increasingly trying to use Linux based systems where they are practical, the primary thrust at the moment being with Raspberry Pi hardware.
Unfortunately the operative phrase there is "where they are practical". Microsoft has done an excellent job of tying people into their platform and - at least in the past - bribing hardware manufacturers so that it is almost the only thing they will support, despite the fact that Windows is not actually a very good piece of software.

In my opinion this gives Microsoft a dangerous amount of control over personal computing, particularly with the ever-increasing integration of network functionality dependant on their backends. Everything I need to do on my home computer can be done on a Linux system, so that's what I use. I appreciate that's not the case for everyone, but for me - if Microsoft want me back using Windows they will have to make it a nice experience to use and also relinquish the undeserved control it gives them over what MY hardware. I can't see that happening any time soon though.
 

AM9

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Which I have done :)
View attachment 108047


Unfortunately the operative phrase there is "where they are practical". Microsoft has done an excellent job of tying people into their platform and - at least in the past - bribing hardware manufacturers so that it is almost the only thing they will support, despite the fact that Windows is not actually a very good piece of software.

In my opinion this gives Microsoft a dangerous amount of control over personal computing, particularly with the ever-increasing integration of network functionality dependant on their backends. Everything I need to do on my home computer can be done on a Linux system, so that's what I use. I appreciate that's not the case for everyone, but for me - if Microsoft want me back using Windows they will have to make it a nice experience to use and also relinquish the undeserved control it gives them over what MY hardware. I can't see that happening any time soon though.
It's a combination of laziness and complication for me. I have two main PCs, the one I am using here is a low spec i3 desktop which is an 'office' machine in that it has most general purpose programs installed including Office 13 Enterprise (courtesy of my wife's employer's staff scheme to buy for about £10). It's easy, familiar for me, but I'm also quite happy to use Libre Office. Unfortunately her preference is MS and she doesn't want to try the freebie and 'renting' office software for domestic use is not the way to go. One program that isn't available to Linux is Sony/Magix Vegas Pro which I sometimes use for quick video editing. There doesn't seem to be any equivalent that runs under Linux.

The other PC is an i7 workstation specifically configured for video work which not only also has Vegas on it but also Blackmagic DaVinci Resolve Studio. This does the heavy lifting on video and is capable of editing UHD/4K video at a usable speed. There is a Linux version of Resolve Studio, and as I use a dongle, it would be licensed the same but it requires CENTOS Linux with is quite difficult to install judging by those on the Blackmagic forum. So apart from working up a lightweight Raspberry Pi 4b 'office' platform, there doesn't dseem to be an easy way to ditch jolly old windows..
 

bspahh

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When my kids were in secondary school, there was a constant hassle where they would lose work either from a crash before having saved the file, having saved the file to a disk at home or school, or saving it to a USB drive that then was lost. With a Chromebook, they switched on, typed a password and carried on with their work. My mum still uses a Toshiba Chromebook 2 from 2014, which is nearing the end of the support from Google, but still works fine, certainly when plugged into the mains.

The only issue was that my old printer wasn't supported, so I got another one.
 

AndyCK

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What makes Linux relatively much safer is that it is used, maintained and tested by a huge user base of expert users. News of weaknesses, vulnerabilities and their consequential fixes travels fast. With no real commercial protectionist secrecy issues, there is a constant conversation across the expert user world to ensure that these fixes are implmented, - all at zero cost to the user.

Whilst the many eyes principal does help, from a security perspective it can also be flawed. An example is the Heartbleed bug from a few years ago, which was introduced to the OpenSSL public repository in 2012 and wasn’t spotted until April 2014.


Heartbleed was a security bug in the OpenSSL cryptography library, which is a widely used implementation of the Transport Layer Security (TLS) protocol. It was introduced into the software in 2012 and publicly disclosed in April 2014

Windows was not affected, as it was a vulnerability in the in the OpenSSL's implementation of TLS rather than in the protocol itself. It did affect several Linux distributions.

And no, I'm not a Windows user before you ask!

Whether someone is a Windows user or not, one key thing that will improve security is user education - update systems regularly, don't reuse passwords, use a good antivirus program, use multi-factor authentication, etc. It obviously won't stop all security issues (like with Heartbleed) but will still have an impact in raising security in general.
 

david1212

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Anybody who has a real distrust of a supplier of an operating system really should move over to Linux in one form or another. It's not that Linux is inherently safe for any technical reason, as the criminal community would happily move their nefarious activities to focus on it if thre wasn't such a large untapped supply of victims with commercial OS. What makes Linux relatively much safer is that it is used, maintained and tested by a huge user base of expert users. News of weaknesses, vulnerabilities and their consequential fixes travels fast. With no real commercial protectionist secrecy issues, there is a constant conversation across the expert user world to ensure that these fixes are implmented, - all at zero cost to the user.
Now I put my hands up here as I am a Microsoft user and at times resent some of the protection that is forced upon me by Microsoft and others, which probably has a commercial agenda that I am not aware of, but I am increasingly trying to use Linux based systems where they are practical, the primary thrust at the moment being with Raspberry Pi hardware.

"Full fat" laptops are overkill for a very large percentage of users - they log on to social media, chat in an instant messenger, join video calls, stream videos and send/receive email. Pretty much all of which is going to be done in a browser or app. Why bother with a complete OS like Windows and the requirements that come with it? I did consider getting a Chromebook for my parents, it was only the fact that my remote support solution doesn't fully support them that kept them on Windows (for now).
Unfortunately the operative phrase there is "where they are practical". Microsoft has done an excellent job of tying people into their platform and - at least in the past - bribing hardware manufacturers so that it is almost the only thing they will support, despite the fact that Windows is not actually a very good piece of software.

In my opinion this gives Microsoft a dangerous amount of control over personal computing, particularly with the ever-increasing integration of network functionality dependant on their backends. Everything I need to do on my home computer can be done on a Linux system, so that's what I use. I appreciate that's not the case for everyone, but for me - if Microsoft want me back using Windows they will have to make it a nice experience to use and also relinquish the undeserved control it gives them over what MY hardware. I can't see that happening any time soon though.


While I am using a laptop ( although ~ 10 years old 3rd Generation i5, 8GB RAM & 1366 x 768 display so I can read it ) whatever the OS it is simply a platform to run Firefox browser, PDF viewer, docx & xlsx editor, VLC player, a basic graphics / photo editor to crop & resize. I can not justify the cost of anything Macintosh.

Part of my role at work is IT support. At home want to use my PC/laptop when I want not when Microsoft decide they don't want to update something. I kept with XP for a long time by when fewer Windows 7 updates. Once Windows 10 announced I decided time to swap to Linux. The first I tried was Kubuntu as more applications included. The second was Mint Cinnamon which struggled with the Core2Duo platform. The third was Mint Mate that I have kept with. When there are updates just a notification then I install when convenient to me.

As any who read this and follow some of my other posts e.g. ticketing know I am only an occasional Android smartphone user. So far I have managed without subscribing to Google Play.

If only a version of Linux Mint was available to replace Android .... the essential functionality beyond phone calls & texts being Firefox mobile or similar, a PDF viewer, file & folder manager, integration with the phone cameras, photo viewer ( video could even just viewed on the PC ), mp3 player.
 
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One thing I find with Linux distros is that the lighter-weight ones are very good at keeping old kit going, and not heading to landfill. Not in use right now, but still regularly fired up, is a mid-2000s Sony Vaio laptop that struggled with its original Windows Vista install but absolutely flies along with Xubuntu 20.04 long-term support edition.
 

najaB

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If only a version of Linux Mint was available to replace Android .... the essential functionality beyond phone calls & texts being Firefox mobile or similar, a PDF viewer, file & folder manager, integration with the phone cameras, photo viewer ( video could even just viewed on the PC ), mp3 player.
There are at least a couple of Android phones out there.
 

Dent

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I never really understood the point of a Chromebook. A laptop with any major operating system can run Chrome and lots of other programs, so what is the purpose of a machine with less functionality.

There would be a case if Chromebooks were a lot cheaper/lighter/more energy efficient/more responsive than the closest other laptop capable of running Chrome, but from what I can see most of the Chromebooks available are not really.

I can do what I need on any operating system, but I use Linux by choice.
 

birchesgreen

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A Chromebook indeed just runs Chrome, for many people thats all they need and so they are far better suited with that than a Windows laptop with it's assorted problems and bloat.
 

najaB

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I never really understood the point of a Chromebook. A laptop with any major operating system can run Chrome and lots of other programs, so what is the purpose of a machine with less functionality.
The idea is that Windows is overcomplicated for what the vast majority of people need. They are very suitable for educational purposes where the "limited functionality" is actually an advantage. One of my friends is the de-facto IT admin for her school and she spends a lot of her time uninstalling applications that the students have downloaded and installed.
There would be a case if Chromebooks were a lot cheaper/lighter/more energy efficient/more responsive than the closest other laptop capable of running Chrome, but from what I can see most of the Chromebooks available are not really.
They used to be. But then hardware manufacturers realised that it was cutting into their profit margins and started adding features (read "increasing prices significantly").
A Chromebook indeed just runs Chrome
Chrome OS to be precise. It's a bit more than just the browser.
 

birchesgreen

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Chrome OS to be precise. It's a bit more than just the browser.
Indeed mine also runs a sandboxed Linux install though i meant from the point of view of a normal user not a geek weirdo like me.

Some Android apps can be used but they are, in my experience, as painful to use as iOS apps on a Mac.
 

Dent

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The idea is that Windows is overcomplicated for what the vast majority of people need. They are very suitable for educational purposes where the "limited functionality" is actually an advantage. One of my friends is the de-facto IT admin for her school and she spends a lot of her time uninstalling applications that the students have downloaded and installed.

Are institutionally managed machines the target market? It could make sense in that situation, but it doesn't explain why they are sold by retailers to consumers.
 

dakta

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I never really understood the point of a Chromebook. A laptop with any major operating system can run Chrome and lots of other programs, so what is the purpose of a machine with less functionality.

There would be a case if Chromebooks were a lot cheaper/lighter/more energy efficient/more responsive than the closest other laptop capable of running Chrome, but from what I can see most of the Chromebooks available are not really.

I can do what I need on any operating system, but I use Linux by choice.
I'm of the same opinion, I can see the point about the chromebook being a bit more simple and if web-browsing and a few apps etc is about the limit of what you're ever going to do it might make sense.

But, computers are small, agile and powerful and IMO somewhat wasted when so closed off, the one thing I like about windows is there's an app for every problem, and for the ones there aren't there's compilers.

No real opinion on Linux, i should get around to spending some more time on it given my occupation, but a lot of tools I use are for windows so whilst I could likely get them to work it'd be linux trying to be windows
 

dgl

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The idea is that Windows is overcomplicated for what the vast majority of people need. They are very suitable for educational purposes where the "limited functionality" is actually an advantage. One of my friends is the de-facto IT admin for her school and she spends a lot of her time uninstalling applications that the students have downloaded and installed.
If a Windows computer is set up correctly for institutional/work use then installing apps can be prohibited, and to be honest with Windows 10 I wouldn't have thought it was any more bloated than Chrome OS or any mobile OS now given how complicated phones are now. I would say there is nothing bloated about any of my Windows 10 installs (some Pentium dual-core machines that were upgraded from XP) and even variants of W10 will run on ARM processors, my old lumia 950 windows phone can even emulate a windows desktop. My mum had one of the dell XPS 10 windows 8 ARM based systems and that worked fine for her use.

Remember MS has been in the lightweight/mobile OS game for longer than most, with Windows CE running in the background of a lot of older mobile devices (like Sat-Navs).

Admitedly there were issues with Vista but that was mainly down to maufacturers using minumum hardware requirements and expecting to make a usable machine out of it, my Dad's Celeron D Vista desktop originally only had 512mb of RAM and was VERY slow, replacing that with 2GB completely changed the experience.
 

bspahh

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I'm of the same opinion, I can see the point about the chromebook being a bit more simple and if web-browsing and a few apps etc is about the limit of what you're ever going to do it might make sense.

But, computers are small, agile and powerful and IMO somewhat wasted when so closed off, the one thing I like about windows is there's an app for every problem, and for the ones there aren't there's compilers.

No real opinion on Linux, i should get around to spending some more time on it given my occupation, but a lot of tools I use are for windows so whilst I could likely get them to work it'd be linux trying to be windows
You don't get the flexibility and agility for nothing. You have the risk of installing malicious software by clicking a link in an email. If you run a virus scanner, then this will lock up your machine sometimes when it runs a scan. When the operating system supports a wide range of hardware and software, then operating system updates are more frequent, and more complex.

Google does do updates for Chromebooks, but most of these just happen and every so often (every year or two), do these need a reboot.

I bought a Toshiba Chromebook 2 https://www.laptopmag.com/uk/reviews/laptops/toshiba-chromebook-2 for £250 in 2014 for my daughter. My mum is still using it. A Chromebook, starts up quickly within 10 seconds from opening the case. The CPU is rather weedy, but its fast enough and it means that it doesn't use much power, it had good battery life even with a light weight. By now I'm sure the battery will be dead, but its used on mains power, so its not a problem. My mum likes that its light to carry around. She likes that she doesn't have updates, virus scans, prompts for installing addons.

Once with a Windows laptop, she was worried by a warning from the free AVG virus scanner, so she paid for an add on, which gave her loads of more worrying messages.

When my kids were at school, they wanted to be able to type stuff for their homework, and have the documents at any computer. Chromebooks were perfect for this.
 

najaB

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If a Windows computer is set up correctly for institutional/work use then installing apps can be prohibited...
Hahahaha... Oh, wait, you're serious? You can try, but there are almost always workarounds.
 

dakta

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"You don't get the flexibility and agility for nothing. You have the risk of installing malicious software by clicking a link in an email. If you run a virus scanner, then this will lock up your machine sometimes when it runs a scan. When the operating system supports a wide range of hardware and software, then operating system updates are more frequent, and more complex."

Everything is a risk and no system has absolute security, even chromebooks have had flaws, and flaws will continue to emerge, most likely at a slower pace due to a variety of reasons but at the tradeoff of their reduced versatility.

I'm not particularly concerned about clicking malicious links and getting a virus, whilst the risk isn't zero it's mitigated to completely acceptable levels by a reasonable degree of savviness (which is actually as good as having a good AV a lot of the time) and a decent paid for AV which doesn't display a lot of worrying messages (which is one good reason to not use a free AV). I've never had any AV lock my system up during a scan.

Bootup speeds for regular PC's/laptops aren't bad, I can get into windows faster from cold than I can my android though my pc is quite powerful, but not the fastest. I never buy the latest.

There is a degree of horses for courses in it, but for me buying something like a chromebook, which will have quite a capable set of specs feels a bit like buying a swiss army knife with all the accessories bar one rounded off with a grinder so you get the stubs and one or two useful accessory but not much nothing else.

I feel the same way about the ipad I have (it was given and i thought what the hecK), it's actually quite capable computationally of doing a lot but it never will because it's so locked down and well, it wouldn't surprise me if any day now I stop being able to do even what it can do because of it being told 'you're too old to live' by apple HQ... am I paranoid? :D

Microsoft windows does get its fair share of criticism from me - If I give google and microsoft a comparison in terms of reputation I'd once say google were far better but they are pretty much the same. And there's nothing I love more than a forced update when I'm like, flashing firmware on stuff.
 
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najaB

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And there's nothing I love more than a forced update when I'm like, flashing firmware on stuff.
And that phrase right there makes it clear that you are definitely not the target audience for a Chromebook.
 

dakta

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well that's the thing, I probably do several days of web browsing for every 3 seconds spent programming firmware, but that ratio doesn't help at all does it - one does one thing well, and the other does, well anything mostly well.

Not bashing the chromebook of course :) but I would agree, I want so much more out of my gear than a chromebook would ever entertain, but I don't put it down to hardware limitation as small mobile processors are actually quite power friendly and potent
 

takno

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well that's the thing, I probably do several days of web browsing for every 3 seconds spent programming firmware, but that ratio doesn't help at all does it - one does one thing well, and the other does, well anything mostly well.

Not bashing the chromebook of course :) but I would agree, I want so much more out of my gear than a chromebook would ever entertain, but I don't put it down to hardware limitation as small mobile processors are actually quite power friendly and potent
I think the point is that the vast majority of users spend absolutely none of their time programming firmware. Not just a little bit, but absolutely none.

As a dedicated IT professional I have dabbled with it my myself, but even then that was 10 years ago, and it's thoroughly out of my system now.

I can't do all of what I need with a Chromebook, but it's certainly good enough for me to cope for a week on holiday. For the rest of my family it would be fine for everything
 

dakta

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Well we pick on firmware but that's just my sidegig and personal potion.

We could go a bit further:

- ##There's whole communities of people writing music with their mobile gear with a lot of hardware produced exclusively for the mobile side (i.e compact keyboards and controllers)
- on the same note, photo editing, film editing, desktop publishing (Lots of people edit movies and quite professionally too for youtube etc)
- 3d printers/cam and homebrew devices are gettingy common, just a couple of hundred pounds now and whilst not as common as an epson yet its getting to the point where a lot of people know someone whos got one.
- development - not everyone's a coder but there's loads of people dabble with it at home, many are not iT Professionals and just do it for the love of things and create downloadable content where they're not doing original software
- automotive diagnostics - interesting one with the elm usb devices you can now do homebrew vehicle diagnostics with a variety of downloadable software. ill admit apps are starting to appear that are compatible but wasnt always the case
- anyone who runs their own business that uses any kind of proprietary business software or have any specific needs and works from their own device
- most non-browser based games - forget battlefield :)
- and a random one, if you just want to design a railway layout or link your controller to your pc

Now that list could go on, it really could, and not all the examples are great as new apps are coming out for things - but we don't need to focus on it that much more the issue that actually there's a lot of ordinary home users for which a chromebook or windows choice isn't really going to work, or at least be a suitable first choice.


Of course that's assuming from opening post that the context is having a chromebook instead of a windows machine. i'd happily have one alongside :)

'especially if they arn't very tech savvy and will rely on someone else to maintain it for themselves.'

My sister fell into this trap (Not with a chromebook though) it was an amazon fire iirc bought for my mum as she hates computers. It was far too closed off (Even more so than android) ad ridden and didn't have apps for what she wanted to use it for. Queue some awkward frustration as she was grateful for it but genuinely couldn't find a purpose - I managed to mod it to improve things a bit but on the quiet we got a laptop. in all fairness she dislikes that too but less.
 
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