Windows on train bathrooms - Yes or No?

[Giugiaro]

I'm currently working on another railway project, and the engineers have been discussing whether or not it's worth keeping windows on train bathrooms.

Not only do we have stock in line for modernization that may or may not have the bathroom windows removed/reinstated, but we are also in the design phase of brand-new rolling stock.

Please leave also some comments about this issue. Are windows in the bathroom good or bad? Do they help alleviate the sense of claustrophobia? Or is it a breach of privacy, even when the window is frosted?

 

[gg1]

The main reason I can see for including them is lights do occasionally fail but as long is there is some redundancy (ie at least two lights plus an emergency light in case of power failure) I would have no objection to them being eliminated.

I don't personally have any privacy concerns about a frosted glass window, I don't suffer from claustrophobia so can't give an opinion from that point of view.

 

[deltic]

travelling in eastern Europe it was pleasant change to be able to open toilet windows to allow some fresh air in and remove smells

 

[spyinthesky]

I would be more interested where the doors function and don’t render the toilet out of use when they don’t.

 

[Sorcerer]

If I personally were designing a train, I wouldn't really include a window in the toilet area. That said I also wouldn't be bothered in the slightest if there was a frosted glass window, though I do question what purpose that might serve on a train with internal lighting (including possible redundancies) since you won't be able to see out of the window anyway. Some passengers might also have a reduced sense of privacy knowing there's a window, but that is just conjecture on my half.

 

[Gloster]

I am only very mildly claustrophobic, but I would prefer some sort of window, even if only a small one. I have travelled on some trains where the toilet has no window and I find it a bit unnerving to be in a completely enclosed box: there is always a slight feeling of, “What if…”

A small point, which I hope you won’t mind me raising. There is a difference in the use of the word bathroom between British and American English. In British English it means a room in which you can take your clothes off in order to wash your whole body: it no longer needs to have an actual bath in it as a shower will do. As far as the British are concerned, trains do not have bathrooms (except for a very few private coaches), they have toilets in which humans can empty themselves when necessary. In American English they often seem to use bathroom when the British would use the word toilet (or lavatory), although (I think) they also use bathroom for what we call a bathroom. I have never been to the USA, so comments from those who know it may add more information.

 

[Devonian]

I prefer train lavatories to have windows, because natural light is much brighter, makes the small compartment much less claustrophobic and often makes it feel cleaner. It's something that I miss in modern British trains. Even something as small as a 30cm round 'porthole' would be nice.

I've never thought of frosted windows being a privacy issue - unless the window is low and the WC bowl is too close to it.

Definitely don't use 'bathroom' as the English label on any bilingual signage.

 

[Essan]

Not that bothered - but given the choice I think I'd prefer a window. I certainly don't see any privacy issues.

 

[Starmill]

If I personally were designing a train, I wouldn't really include a window in the toilet area. That said I also wouldn't be bothered in the slightest if there was a frosted glass window, though I do question what purpose that might serve on a train with internal lighting (including possible redundancies) since you won't be able to see out of the window anyway. Some passengers might also have a reduced sense of privacy knowing there's a window, but that is just conjecture on my half.

The windows inside the toilets of British trains that have them are near-opaque glass without a gap, so you can't see anything through them at all. However during the daytime they do make it a lot easier to see inside the toilet, and they also make the small space feel larger. Class 158 was one of the later examples to include them that still does. The space saver toilet in a 166 may still have one? 323s and 365s and so on did too but all gone now.

 

[LowLevel]

I like having a bit of light from the window, but I wouldn't worry too much about it. In the UK we have replaced a lot of our toilets with new modules that don't have windows.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

At least opaque/frosted windows let in some light. Lots of stock in the UK had these and did not open

 

[satisnek]

Most definitely yes. With a little peep-hole of clear glass so that you can see where you are (if, for example, on the approaches to your destination station).

Because the higher quality coaches of yesteryear used to have such things

 

[Merle Haggard]

I've noticed that 'bathroom' for toilet or lavatory has crossed the Atlantic. Just as an aside, what's a room with a bath in called?

 

[hexagon789]

Just as an aside, what's a room with a bath in called?

In the US?

The bathroom.

In public places where we would use the label 'toilet(s)', the US generally uses 'restroom(s)'.

 

[urbophile]

So for something that is neither a bathroom nor a restroom, but a WC, windows (frosted) are better. Why not provide them?

 

[Merle Haggard]

In the US?

The bathroom.

In public places where we would use the label 'toilet(s)', the US generally uses 'restroom(s)'.

Thanks, I thought that the use of 'bathroom' for toilet originated in the U.S. It's just very odd; we have a lot of words for a lavatory in this country and only one word for a room with a bath in.

 

[CC 72100]

I suppose a window does also break up some of the wall and make it less of a blank canvas for any local graffiti aritists(!).

But generally speaking, I don't think it matters either way. I wouldn't go to any great length to install one that isn't there already, but neither would an effort to remove it be time or money well spent either.

 

[ac6000cw]

But generally speaking, I don't think it matters either way. I wouldn't go to any great length to install one that isn't there already, but neither would an effort to remove it be time or money well spent either.

I would agree with that.

It's pretty common today for public toilets inside buildings to be windowless, as they are often placed at the core of the building where all the 'services' are. It's the same in modern hotel rooms. So I suspect a lot of people wouldn't care...

 

[Gloster]

An additional factor is that in a train it is moving, whereas in a building it isn’t. That does add a small extra factor that might cause unease.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

From me... another vote for having a frosted window.

Out of interest, does having a window make any difference from a long term refurbishment perspective? I'm thinking, in the sense that, if you have a window there, you have more flexibility if - say - halfway through the train's lifetime, you decide during an internal refurbishment to change the usage of that space to something else (like seating)? Or is a toilet so much part of a train's core structure that you'd never do that?

 

[Yew]

Most definitely yes. With a little peep-hole of clear glass so that you can see where you are (if, for example, on the approaches to your destination station).

Because the higher quality coaches of yesteryear used to have such things

I did notice that on some Mk1's when I travelled recently.

I've tried to find a picture, but I just don't feel comfortable googling "toilet peep hole"; but for the avoidance of doubt, this is to allow people inside to see outside (for example, to see if you're in a station)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Oct 2023 ==

From me... another vote for having a frosted window.

Out of interest, does having a window make any difference from a long term refurbishment perspective? I'm thinking, in the sense that, if you have a window there, you have more flexibility if - say - halfway through the train's lifetime, you decide during an internal refurbishment to change the usage of that space to something else (like seating)? Or is a toilet so much part of a train's core structure that you'd never do that?

Offhand I can't think of any retention tank vehicles that have had toilets removed, otherwise maybe the 153 conversion could be the most recent?

 

[hexagon789]

Offhand I can't think of any retention tank vehicles that have had toilets removed, otherwise maybe the 153 conversion could be the most recent?

Perhaps not quite the same, but the refurbished HST trailers had one toilet removed/locked out of use when fitted with retention tanks. The underframe design only leaves room for a tank at one end anyway.

 

[43096]

Perhaps not quite the same, but the refurbished HST trailers had one toilet removed/locked out of use when fitted with retention tanks. The underframe design only leaves room for a tank at one end anyway.

It’s all Mark 3s, not just HST trailers.

 

[Zamracene749]

It's nicer with windows. Alongside fresh air, let some natural ultraviolet light in. There's a reason certain moulds, bacteria etc don't thrive where there is sunlight. I'm no toilet design expert, but WCs with no natural light always seem a bit nastier than those that have light.

PS please I don't want a list of exceptions that prove the point

 

[philthetube]

I've noticed that 'bathroom' for toilet or lavatory has crossed the Atlantic. Just as an aside, what's a room with a bath in called?

The op does reside in Portugal so maybe learnt English from an American, or at least an American source.

 

[DelW]

I prefer there to be a window, though it's not a big deal if there isn't. That's because generally I prefer natural light and ventilation where possible.

I agree that the little "porthole" of clear glass allowing a limited view out can be useful, especially if e.g. having to make a quick toilet visit when the train is approaching your destination station.

 

[Giugiaro]

Out of interest, does having a window make any difference from a long term refurbishment perspective?

The Arcos had the additional windows from their former life as RENFE 10000 coaches covered with a welded-in sheet of steel.
The frame was still there, so CP just sawed the sheets off and put them elsewhere when the layout of the bar coach was changed.

The existing 10000 coaches that are meant for the future Sud Express have windows on the bathrooms that make it impossible to fit the existing Arco livery.
Covering the windows not only will make it possible to paint the same livery in these coaches but also be 4 fewer windows per coach that engineering and maintenance will need to worry about.

I believe the new Class 800 have very obviously sealed windows for the diesel generator. This was probably done so that there wasn't a need to fully engineer a car specifically for that purpose.

 

[urbophile]

The op does reside in Portugal so maybe learnt English from an American, or at least an American source.

Italians often (usually) refer to a toilet as 'bagno' (literally 'bath[room]') so maybe it's a Southern European thing. Though I think the Italian usage is comparatively recent.

 

[py_megapixel]

I'd generally prefer there to be a window, but one disadvantage of this is that the space taken up by it can't then be used for something else. In particular, on trains with a window for the toilet, the hand wash sink is generally small and hidden behind the door, while omitting the window provides a convenient bit of wall for a large basin and possibly a wall mounted mirror too.

That said, Desiros if I recall have no window and a tiny basin squeezed in at one end, so make of that what you will...

 

[Merle Haggard]

Possibly then reason that coaching stock up to Mk1 and possibly the Mk2z had lav. windows was because otherwise the cubicle would have to be permanently illuminated and that would rely on the belt driven dynamo and batteries always working - dim lamps more of a problem in a windowless cubicle than in the main area.
I have a hazy recollection that the MML HST coaches (also possibly the ex GC ones) had their lav. widows replaced by solid panels - originally, the lower half was for a destination display and this was obviously solid but I think I remember the whole former window area being solid towards the end.