Window Seats

[43096]

Interesting to see this piece (https://news.sky.com/story/delta-an...-sued-over-window-seats-with-no-view-13415546) about a class action lawsuit in the US over non-window window seats on certain airlines (text is below). There is an obvious read-across to the railway industry with the notorious Pendolino and IET window seats that have the view of a bit of plastic. Might we see such a legal case brought here?

Two major US airlines are being sued by passengers who say they paid extra for "window" seats, only to find themselves given seats next to a blank wall.

Delta Air Lines and United Airlines each face proposed class action lawsuits representing more than a million passengers each.

The damages being sought number in the millions of dollars.

Passengers said Delta and United do not flag these non-window seats during the booking process, unlike rivals such as Alaska Airlines and American Airlines, even when charging tens or occasionally hundreds of dollars for them.

The lawsuits say people buy window seats for several reasons including to address fear of flying, keeping children occupied or just to enjoy the view.

"Had plaintiffs and the class members known that the seats they were purchasing (were) windowless, they would not have selected them - much less have paid extra," the complaint against United said. The Delta complaint contained similar language.

Neither Delta or United immediately responded to requests for comment by the Reuters news agency.

Passengers can use websites such as SeatGuru to find advantages and disadvantages of specific seats, including those that don't have windows.

But Carter Greenbaum, a lawyer whose firm filed the two lawsuits, said this doesn't excuse Delta's and United's conduct.

He said: "A company can't misrepresent the nature of the products it sells and then rely on third party reviews to say a customer should have known that it was lying."

 

[MCR247]

Wouldn’t an equivalent lawsuit need a TOC to charge for seat reservations and also charge different fees depending on the seat chosen? Sounds like something National Express East Coast would’ve tried

 

[stuu]

No, as already stated, reservations are free. A ticket and reservation doesn't even legally guarantee a seat on a train, let alone a window

 

[Bletchleyite]

Probably not because a seat reservation is free so there is no contract for the provision of a specific seat.

 

[urbophile]

More of a design problem for trains rather than aircraft I guess. From a plane you mostly don't see anything anyway. Whereas on a train you could be stuck for hours next to a blank wall instead of a scenic (or otherwise) view. But since the majority of people these days never look out of the window and are glued to phones or laptops, the solution is quite simple: on the reservations web page differentiate between seats with a view and seats without, rather than using 'window' to refer to any of the outermost seats. On the blank walls perhaps they could paste photographs of hordes of wildebeest sweeping majestically across the plain, or similar.

I have seen some seating plans which clearly mark the actual windows, but the default (at least on Avanti) seems to be to reserve 'window' seats at random whether or not they have a view. Often they do this while leaving the real window seats unreserved.

 

[philosopher]

Probably not because a seat reservation is free so there is no contract for the provision of a specific seat.

Seat reservations I have never known to be enforced on trains. If your ‘window’ seat turns out to be windowless, you can move to another seat that does have a window, providing the train is not too busy.

 

[irish_rail]

On Eurostar, I believe the reservation is compulsory and standing not permitted. I have been bitten by specifically booking a window seat and being given zero window whatsoever on one of the "glorius" class 374 trains. Was a very unpleasant journey on a completely full train. I complained to Eurostar who simply dealt with it by ignoring me. A window seat reservation should guarantee a window seat on a service where reservations are compulsory.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On Eurostar, I believe the reservation is compulsory and standing not permitted. I have been bitten by specifically booking a window seat and being given zero window whatsoever on one of the "glorius" class 374 trains. Was a very unpleasant journey on a completely full train. I complained to Eurostar who simply dealt with it by ignoring me. A window seat reservation should guarantee a window seat on a service where reservations are compulsory.

Doesn't Eurostar's seat picker show window positions? I seem to recall it does?

Doesn't work in the event of a stock swap I suppose.

 

[MCR247]

Doesn't Eurostar's seat picker show window positions? I seem to recall it does?

Doesn't work in the event of a stock swap I suppose.

I’m not sure it shows the window positions themselves but when you click on a seat it will say ‘limited view’

 

[BerkshireRails]

No, as already stated, reservations are free. A ticket and reservation doesn't even legally guarantee a seat on a train, let alone a window

How I have interpreted the national rail conditions of carriage suggests otherwise.

 

[duffield]

The key thing in the lawsuit is paying *extra* for window seats and not getting them; that presumably forms some sort of contract which the airlines are failing to deliver. This just does not apply on UK trains.

So the answer to the original question is "No".

 

[L+Y]

the majority of people these days never look out of the window and are glued to phones or laptops,

While I don't dispute this, I've noticed that even so, passengers will always move to avoid seats without a window view, be it to avoid a pillar or a Pendolino blank wall. On a quieter train I'd say it's unusual to see passengers ever pick anything *but* a window seat, unless travelling with company. There's clearly a strong preference for windows, even if as you say, the passenger then doesn't really look out!

 

[urbophile]

While I don't dispute this, I've noticed that even so, passengers will always move to avoid seats without a window view, be it to avoid a pillar or a Pendolino blank wall. On a quieter train I'd say it's unusual to see passengers ever pick anything *but* a window seat, unless travelling with company. There's clearly a strong preference for windows, even if as you say, the passenger then doesn't really look out!

As only an occasional passenger on long-distance trains my impressions are very likely not typical. You've noticed people avoid blank-walled seats, which I m sure many or most people do. I've just been struck with how so many do the opposite.