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Windermere cancellations 12/5/18 - split tickets

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Leisurefirst

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On a day trip from London to Windermere today. Due to travel back on 1906 to Oxenholme then 1929 to Euston which is the last train to London.
Completely by chance as I forgot what time the Windermere train left I checked at lunchtime on NRE to find that it's cancelled.
I called Northern to confirm this and was told this was the case and that the replacement bus would not get to Oxenholme in time so to get the 1803 instead.
I went upto Windermere station to double check and was told they MIGHT put on another direct bus to Oxenholme a bit earlier but not for definite so was told to get 1803 to be sure.
I wondered if we could get the earlier VT service if we got the 1803 rather than let it go and wait on Oxenholme for an hour plus (there's less than the minimum cinnecconn time but we might have got it if it was a bit late) but was told no.
We have railcard discounted day returns for the Northern leg of the journey and Promo Advance tickets for VT.
I was further told that if we had through tickets if we had missed the London train at Oxenholme we could have been given road transport to London from Birmingham but as we had split tickets we have no right so we would have to either get the 1803 or take our chances with no guarantee of getting back.
This as far as am I aware should NOT be the case...
VT web chat also would not permit travel on the earlier VT train as train manager permission required which I obviously could not get until we were already on it and basically blamed Northern for cancelling.
We are left having to cut short our day in Windermere to get the 1803 instead of the 1906.
Although we should get back to Euston at the correct time, the journey will have taken 63 minutes longer. Would delay repay apply here?
Very unhappy about this.
Again, only discovered this by chance whilst checking departure time or else would have rocked up to Windermere station just before 1906 to find we wouldn't have been able to get home tonight and not anyone's responsibility to get us back as we have split tickets apparently...
I have warned VT to expect possible stranded passengers at Oxenholme later.
 
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_toommm_

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Delay Repay would not apply sadly as it's based on your final arrival time at your destination - even though it may take you 63 minutes longer (whcih I don't doubt) there is technically no final delay.

As for the split ticket thing, that is rubbish - as long as you have observed the minimum connection time at Oxenholme then you're fine - the National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT) state you can use two or more tickets to make your journey i.e. Windermere to London. Unfortunately Transport Focus don't recognise this as true so if you do end up at a stalemate with Virgin, TF may not be much help - it's been documented on here a few times before.
 

Spartacus

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The split ticket thing is a red herring, it's the whole journey that counts, not what tickets you use to complete it.

I'd side with the VT web chat on the matter of getting the earlier train. Try and find the guard/TM BEFORE you get on, just in case. If not there's the Station Inn a short walk up the hill east of station or the delights of 66140 at 1853.
 

BestWestern

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Is the TOC not obliged to ensure that you get home, having cancelled a service for a replacement bus which won't make a scheduled connection? Or is this an advertised ammendment?
 

Leisurefirst

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Is the TOC not obliged to ensure that you get home, having cancelled a service for a replacement bus which won't make a scheduled connection? Or is this an advertised ammendment?

Service was running when I booked Northern leg on GWR website yesterday afternoon.
Apparently only if I had bought one ticket would it be Northern's fault I've just been told again by someone else here.
Anyway, damage is done as we couldn't take a chance and had to cut the lake part of the day short to get the 1803 and get up to the station.
Pity the poor passengers who didn't happen to check their phones...
Thanks for your advice everybody.
I will contact Northern to remind them of their responsibilities multiple tickets or not and let you know how I get on.
Anybody know why they would cancel the last train that connects with the London service rather than the services either side?
(Was hours in advance...Northern customer service said something about Driver training I thought...I didn't take it in...)
 

30907

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Anybody know why they would cancel the last train that connects with the London service rather than the services either side?
(Was hours in advance...Northern customer service said something about Driver training I thought...I didn't take it in...)

Everything is cancelled after the 1803 Up (as you probably know now) - it's an ongoing issue, see the Northern Lancashire Problems thread.
 

Leisurefirst

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Everything is cancelled after the 1803 Up (as you probably know now) - it's an ongoing issue, see the Northern Lancashire Problems thread.

I didn't know until they just announced it at Oxenholme as the departure board at Windermere only had the 1906 cancelled and the subsequent service running for some reason!

Incidentally, the asking to join the earlier VT service scenario didn't materilize as the 1803 got into Oxenholme a few minutes late and saw VT services in both the northbound and southbound platforms get despatched just as the doors were about to open (NB) and just after (SB)...
 

Leisurefirst

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The split ticket thing is a red herring, it's the whole journey that counts, not what tickets you use to complete it.

I'd side with the VT web chat on the matter of getting the earlier train. Try and find the guard/TM BEFORE you get on, just in case. If not there's the Station Inn a short walk up the hill east of station or the delights of 66140 at 1853.

I take it this was 66140?!

66.jpg
 
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janb

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We have railcard discounted day returns for the Northern leg of the journey and Promo Advance tickets for VT.
I was further told that if we had through tickets if we had missed the London train at Oxenholme we could have been given road transport to London from Birmingham but as we had split tickets we have no right so we would have to either get the 1803 or take our chances with no guarantee of getting back.

This is not true but sadly a lot of staff believe it.
 

yorkie

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....I was further told that if we had through tickets if we had missed the London train at Oxenholme we could have been given road transport to London from Birmingham but as we had split tickets we have no right so we would have to either get the 1803 or take our chances with no guarantee of getting back...
That needs challenging. Who told you this? Please be sure to ask for an apology, and assurance that correct advice will be given in future. I am happy to proof read a letter (PM me).

Unfortunately as you did not suffer any loss on this occasion, and you chose to take an earlier train (I would not have done), you may not be entitled to Delay Repay compensation, but you have been mislead and threatened and you should take that very serious matter further in a complaint.

Incidentally, did the Guard on the earlier Virgin service refuse? It is always worth asking.

A refusal would be disappointing and surprising as it would be incompatible with their job description to be focussed on customers, show empathy, provide excellent customer service by making a positive difference to your journey, delivering excellence and innovation and to identify and resolve any journey difficulties you have.


Again, only discovered this by chance whilst checking departure time or else would have rocked up to Windermere station just before 1906 to find we wouldn't have been able to get home tonight and not anyone's responsibility to get us back as we have split tickets apparently...
The train companies do have a responsibility to get you home. It makes no difference how many tickets you hold (some train companies will offer to sell you a combination of tickets without you asking for it, for some journeys)
 
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IanXC

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Incidentally, did the Guard on the earlier Virgin service refuse? It is always worth asking.

As the OP pointed out above they did not arrive in time to join the preceding Trent Valley service, and the next via Birmingham service would actually have arrived later than the booked train.
 

Bletchleyite

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As the OP pointed out above they did not arrive in time to join the preceding Trent Valley service, and the next via Birmingham service would actually have arrived later than the booked train.

Though sometimes that's preferable to sitting on a platform with few or no facilities for 59 minutes.
 
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