Wind Power and UK Energy Use

[CdBrux]

must also remember the market is to some extent European thanks to the interconnectors, so even if the was overcapacity in UK, if someone on the continent was prepared to pay a high price for UK generated energy that can also help set UK prices
What the price does not do (or at least often do) is reflect the marginal cost of supply, it reflects the marginal demand / willingness to pay

 

[hwl]

although there is a new gas power station being built somewhere (I forget where), but immediately adjacent to a big battery storage system.

We now have open cycle turbines approaching the efficiency to the first generation combined cycle plants that make up the bulk of UK capacity. They've reached 43% or so.

Replacing those first gen plants would be highly attractive as capacity factors fall because you can shed a lot of maintenance costs.

As a related follow up there are three completed moderately sized OCGTs for balancing purposes that are awaiting grid connections (and gathering dust at the moment). Hence when these 3 get connected then there is unlikely to be the need for much new OCGT to be planned or built.

 

[Nottingham59]

Interesting to see that for the past month we've been exporting a lot of electricity to Norway (dark brown line in clip below from https://gridwatch.co.uk/Int). This is the opposite of the usual pattern of uninterrupted imports from Norway. I wonder if hydroelectric water levels are getting low?

 

[N1]

Interesting to see that for the past month we've been exporting a lot of electricity to Norway (dark brown line in clip below from https://gridwatch.co.uk/Int). This is the opposite of the usual pattern of uninterrupted imports from Norway. I wonder if hydroelectric water levels are getting low?

Fairly high wind output across Europe, including UK I think. Even Germany is exporting to Norway. The advantage of a high hydro capacity is that you can take wind when it is cheap and keep your hydro for when it is expensive

 

[Nottingham59]

Fairly high wind output across Europe, including UK I think. Even Germany is exporting to Norway. The advantage of a high hydro capacity is that you can take wind when it is cheap and keep your hydro for when it is expensive

Yes. That's why it's sad that interconnectors have become politicised in Norway. Holding hydro back on windy days (then running at double power on days without wind), is by far the cheapest form of long-term storage for electricity.

 

[N1]

Yes. That's why it's sad that interconnectors have become politicised in Norway. Holding hydro back on windy days (then running at double power on days without wind), is by far the cheapest form of long-term storage for electricity.

Yeah, adding export capacity in Norway hasn't necessarily given the benefits they hoped for, but this seems to me to be an issue of current market rules / forces. Having the interconnectors is better for overall emissions at least. Just noticed French electricity prices are right down close to zero and they are exporting in all directions.

 

[takno]

Interesting to see that for the past month we've been exporting a lot of electricity to Norway (dark brown line in clip below from https://gridwatch.co.uk/Int). This is the opposite of the usual pattern of uninterrupted imports from Norway. I wonder if hydroelectric water levels are getting low?

Norway did recently introduce electricity at a relatively low fixed price for domestic consumers. Their huge rise in exports in recent years has come at the expensive of really quite high floating domestic energy prices. That would likely have some impact on how much producers would want to produce and dump out of the country on days when European prices are quite low.

I'm not sure it's fair to bemoan interconnectors becoming "politicised" in Norway - they've fairly clearly driven huge increases in the price of energy for large chunks of the population. Some of the differences between specific party policies have been overblown by politicians who largely didn't understand them, but it was clear they needed a strike a better balance on how the European network interplayed with domestic demand.

 

[Nottingham59]

I'm not sure it's fair to bemoan interconnectors becoming "politicised" in Norway - they've fairly clearly driven huge increases in the price of energy for large chunks of the population.

Sure. That needs to fixed.

I'd suggest requiring any new interconnectors to balance imports and exports over any suitably long measuring interval, say 100 days. It would mean running a Scotland-Norway interconnector at a loss on some days, offset by being run at a high profit on others.

 

[Bald Rick]

Interesting to see that for the past month we've been exporting a lot of electricity to Norway (dark brown line in clip below from https://gridwatch.co.uk/Int). This is the opposite of the usual pattern of uninterrupted imports from Norway. I wonder if hydroelectric water levels are getting low?

It’s quite simple - it’s been flipping cold in Scandinavia recently (much colder than average for the time of year), so their demand has gone up considerably.

It’s warming up in the back half of this week, and our exports to them will fall.

 

[Nottingham59]

It’s quite simple - it’s been flipping cold in Scandinavia recently (much colder than average for the time of year), so their demand has gone up considerably.

And it's been windy here; significantly more than the same period last year.

Still it's good to see the balance of interconnector flows slowing moving from wholly imports (except from Ireland), to a more even balance between imports and exports as UK wind production grows.

 

[Bald Rick]

And it's been windy here; significantly more than the same period last year.

Still it's good to see the balance of interconnector flows slowing moving from wholly imports (except from Ireland), to a more even balance between imports and exports as UK wind production grows.

We’ve essentially been burning gas to supply Norway.

 

[brad465]

We’ve essentially been burning gas to supply Norway.

Like when we burnt gas to supply France while they did the nuclear power station equivalent of C4/6 overhauls to them in 2022. Does burning gas for export negatively impact UK domestic prices? In 2022 when we net exported to France, wholesale prices were at a record high, and while gas prices were also at a record high, France having a lower nuclear output and the UK having a higher gas power output can't have helped.

 

[Bald Rick]

Like when we burnt gas to supply France while they did the nuclear power station equivalent of C4/6 overhauls to them in 2022. Does burning gas for export negatively impact UK domestic prices? In 2022 when we net exported to France, wholesale prices were at a record high, and while gas prices were also at a record high, France having a lower nuclear output and the UK having a higher gas power output can't have helped.

Well, guess where we would have imported that gas from ?

 

[brad465]

Now got a geothermal plant online in the UK:

Earth's heat to produce electricity for homes in UK clean energy first

Water super-heated by rocks will also provide the UK's first domestic supply of the critical mineral lithium.

www.bbc.co.uk

The UK's first geothermal power plant is set to go live, providing a completely new type of renewable electricity using hot water from underground.

On Thursday morning, the Cornish plant will be switched on after nearly two decades in development which required Geothermal Engineering Ltd (GEL) to drill the deepest on-shore well in the UK.

The water, super-heated by rocks, will help drive turbines to generate electricity for 10,000 homes, but will also provide the UK's first domestic supply of lithium - a critical mineral used in green technology.

The British Geological Survey said it was a "major step forward" for geothermal but high drilling costs could make replicating the project difficult.

 

[N1]

Now got a geothermal plant online in the UK:

Interesting, although I believe it is specifically the UK's first geothermal power plant, as the Southampton District Energy Scheme is the UK's first geothermal combined heat and power plant.

 

[brad465]

At solar noon there is currently over 30GW of renewable energy being generated across the UK, nearly 19GW wind and just over 11GW solar, which is critical at this time of oil and gas trouble. I certainly hope there's plenty of battery storage coming online soon as this is the time to capture excess solar for the evening peak demand.

 

[telstarbox]

Great stuff.

 

[Bald Rick]

At solar noon there is currently over 30GW of renewable energy being generated across the UK, nearly 19GW wind and just over 11GW solar, which is critical at this time of oil and gas trouble. I certainly hope there's plenty of battery storage coming online soon as this is the time to capture excess solar for the evening peak demand.

Almost 32GW renewable I reckon, more if you include biomass (I don’t!)
Batteries have been sucking it up today, to pump it out this evening when the marginal price will be somewhat higher. There is now at least 13GWh of distribution / grid scale battery storage on line, plus plenty more domestic (which doesn’t register). I’s be surprised if they aren’t all close to fully charged by 1600, and a few full reservoirs in Dinorwig, Cruachan, Foyers etc.

Also we are exporting 4GW to Scandinavia, Belgium and Holland, whilst also importing 4GW from France.

 

[HSTEd]

My domestic battery was fully charged by 10am, albeit it was relatively full from yesterday's sun.

 

[AndrewE]

Almost 32GW renewable I reckon, more if you include biomass (I don’t!)
Batteries have been sucking it up today, to pump it out this evening when the marginal price will be somewhat higher. There is now at least 13GWh of distribution / grid scale battery storage on line, plus plenty more domestic (which doesn’t register). I’s be surprised if they aren’t all close to fully charged by 1600, and a few full reservoirs in Dinorwig, Cruachan, Foyers etc.

https://gridwatch.co.uk/demand shows pumped storage mopping up 0.84 GW at the moment... Surprisingly HEP is generating 0.46 GW too

My domestic battery was fully charged by 10am, albeit it was relatively full from yesterday's sun.

mine is almost full, so I am kicking myself (mildly) for putting so much into the battery at 2 a.m. this morning - after exporting down to 23% in yesterday's evening peak. I was expecting SWMBO to have done more washing today! Never mind, it's only an hour until peak rate export prices cut in again.

 

[Bald Rick]

https://gridwatch.co.uk/demand shows pumped storage mopping up 0.84 GW at the moment... Surprisingly HEP is generating 0.46 GW too

Yep the hydro position confuses me routinely, but I’m sure there‘s good reasons for it. It just seems odd that we constrain so much wind in Scotland but still have the hydro taps on. Perhaps the reservoirs are full!

 

[JamesT]

Yep the hydro position confuses me routinely, but I’m sure there‘s good reasons for it. It just seems odd that we constrain so much wind in Scotland but still have the hydro taps on. Perhaps the reservoirs are full!

Isn't that just the ongoing issue that the grid doesn't have enough capacity to take wind power from Scotland to where it's actually required?

 

[HSTEd]

Yep the hydro position confuses me routinely, but I’m sure there‘s good reasons for it. It just seems odd that we constrain so much wind in Scotland but still have the hydro taps on. Perhaps the reservoirs are full!

A lot of hydro generators will be unable to cut releases to zero because of downstream compensation requirements.

Don't want the river going dry.

 

[Bald Rick]

Isn't that just the ongoing issue that the grid doesn't have enough capacity to take wind power from Scotland to where it's actually required?

Most of the hydro is in Scotland…

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Mar 2026 ==

A lot of hydro generators will be unable to cut releases to zero because of downstream compensation requirements.

Don't want the river going dry.

of course (slaps head).

 

[brad465]

Almost 32GW renewable I reckon, more if you include biomass (I don’t!)
Batteries have been sucking it up today, to pump it out this evening when the marginal price will be somewhat higher. There is now at least 13GWh of distribution / grid scale battery storage on line, plus plenty more domestic (which doesn’t register). I’s be surprised if they aren’t all close to fully charged by 1600, and a few full reservoirs in Dinorwig, Cruachan, Foyers etc.

Various reporting sites need to get a move on and work out how to report battery data if we're already at that level. I don't know what peak discharge rates you can get, but if most large-scale installations discharge almost all capacity over a few hours, that's 3-4GW in the peak periods, large enough that it's comparable with import/exports with France (I assume they'll charge up more slowly to avoid suddenly overloading the grid, like the West Ealing battery bank for the 230).

 

[Class 317]

Quite a lot of battery and generation is not reflected in the figures on many sites because it's after the meter.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Mar 2026 ==

The next auction for CFD for renewables has been brought forward to July which should see significant Solar and Wind generation within the pipeline brought forward.

Various schemes to co locate BESS to reduce curtailment are also in advanced stages of planning.

Both these measures should see gas use drop significantly over the next few years.

 

[brad465]

Quite a lot of battery and generation is not reflected in the figures on many sites because it's after the meter.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Mar 2026 ==

The next auction for CFD for renewables has been brought forward to July which should see significant Solar and Wind generation within the pipeline brought forward.

Various schemes to co locate BESS to reduce curtailment are also in advanced stages of planning.

Both these measures should see gas use drop significantly over the next few years.

With oil and gas prices where they are, schemes in the next auction will certainly be much more attractive than the previous auction.

 

[Class 317]

With oil and gas prices where they are, schemes in the next auction will certainly be much more attractive than the previous auction.

Quite possibly. I have often thought it's not the actual cost but the sharp increases that cause economic problems and social hardship.

If the price was stable but higher it would be easier to support those on lower incomes and those on higher incomes would have more incentive to invest in efficiency, solar PV, Solar Thermal or batteries to reduce their costs.

 

[CdBrux]

Quite possibly. I have often thought it's not the actual cost but the sharp increases that cause economic problems and social hardship.

If the price was stable but higher it would be easier to support those on lower incomes and those on higher incomes would have more incentive to invest in efficiency, solar PV, Solar Thermal or batteries to reduce their costs.

and even more industry would close down and off shore

 

[Class 317]

and even more industry would close down and off shore

Some might but again it's the fluctuations that cause most problems and those using electric could either install their own generation or power purchasing agreement to buy at less than the market rate which many already do.