WILLESDEN MPD

[R Martin]

Is there anyone who remembers Willesden MPD in the early 1960's just before closure in 1965?

The depot serviced 10000/1,10201/1/3 type 24s,20s, Duchesses, black 5s and 'Crabs'.

Many good friends all gone now I suppose. I experienced flashovers due to using full power on the crossovers out of Euston, just before Hamstead Road Bridge.
I had a cab ride on 10000 on a summer working to Northampton 1962 or 1963. So many memories, happy days

 

[WesternLancer]

Is there anyone who remembers Willesden MPD in the early 1960's just before closure in 1965? 10000/1,10201/1/3 type 24s,20s, Duchesses, black 5's, crabs. Many good friends all gone now I suppose. Flash overs due to using full power on the crossovers out of Euston just before Hamstead Road Bridge. Cab ride on 10000 on a summer working to Northampton 1962?or 1963? So many memories, happy days

This post interested me! I’m too young to have enjoyed any of that but sounds like you have a few good stories to tell.

Even just seeing 10000 would have fascinated me.

My guess is a fair few on this forum would have recollections of those days at Willesden and the west coast main line. Hopefully people might post some stuff but feel free to post more. I’ll read it!

 

[Harvester]

Is there anyone who remembers Willesden MPD in the early 1960's just before closure in 1965? 10000/1,10201/1/3 type 24s,20s, Duchesses, black 5's, crabs. Many good friends all gone now I suppose. Flash overs due to using full power on the crossovers out of Euston just before Hamstead Road Bridge. Cab ride on 10000 on a summer working to Northampton 1962?or 1963? So many memories, happy days

I visited Willesden (1A) in August 1963 and August 1964, and on both occasions the shed was awash with Britannias. Quite a few Royal Scots and the odd Jubilee in 1963, but by 1964 it was mainly Brits, Black 5s and 8Fs. No Duchesses seen there, but I got round Camden(1B) in 1963, just before it closed to steam, and recorded 5 of them there, some in store. I can also remember seeing 46245 City of London at Euston in August 1963 and named EE type 4s. Happy memories from back then, and I must repair my old tatty notebook which is falling to pieces.

 

[R Martin]

I visited Willesden (1A) in August 1963 and August 1964, and on both occasions the shed was awash with Britannias. Quite a few Royal Scots and the odd Jubilee in 1963, but by 1964 it was mainly Brits, Black 5s and 8Fs. No Duchesses seen there, but I got round Camden(1B) in 1963, just before it closed to steam, and recorded 5 of them there, some in store. I can also remember seeing 46245 City of London at Euston in August 1963 and named EE type 4s. Happy memories from back then, and I must repair my old tatty notebook which is falling to pieces.

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They used to store Duchesses on a road outside our electricians messroom. I recall their immense size. I think I remember The City of Coventry in green. But City of London always seemed to be parked elsewhere, probably in the main shed. She seemed to be the service quite a lot, as if I needed to go down to Euston I could always get a lift.

I was also lucky to get a cab ride in 10000 or 1 to Watford. My foreman was a fan of the twins and wanted to keep them running as long as possible. Sorry, he wasn't a fan of the southern locomotives which were confined to Cross London ex southern or western freights. As an aside, I always thought that the twins were rated at 1550hp not 1600hp as in the publications, I could be wrong!

 

[Bevan Price]

Willesden MPD, 1963:

 

[R Martin]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Oct 2025 ==

They used to store Duchesses an a road outside our electricians messroom. I recall their immense size. I think i remember The City of Coventry in green. But City of London always seemed to be parked else ware probably in the main shed. She seemed to be the service quite a lot, as if I needed to go down to Euston I could always get a lift.
I was also lucky to get a cab ride in 10000 or 1 to Watford. My foreman was a fan of the twins and wanted to keep them running as long as possible. Sorry he wasn't fan of the southern locomotives which were confined to Cross London ex southern or western freights. As an aside I always thought that the twins were rated at 1550hp not 1600hp as in the publications, I could be wrong!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Oct 2025 ==

I'm not very good at the internet as I'm a bit old! However I did spend a bit of time on the twins as my foreman aways sent me to do repairs. What I do remember was the notched controller and banging my head on the turbo charger. If you go want me to post any further memories I will always oblige, but I'm off to be know!

 

[WesternLancer]

Willesden MPD, 1963:

That’s a great picture. Very well lit with great atmosphere

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Oct 2025 ==

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Oct 2025 ==

They used to store Duchesses an a road outside our electricians messroom. I recall their immense size. I think i remember The City of Coventry in green. But City of London always seemed to be parked else ware probably in the main shed. She seemed to be the service quite a lot, as if I needed to go down to Euston I could always get a lift.
I was also lucky to get a cab ride in 10000 or 1 to Watford. My foreman was a fan of the twins and wanted to keep them running as long as possible. Sorry he wasn't fan of the southern locomotives which were confined to Cross London ex southern or western freights. As an aside I always thought that the twins were rated at 1550hp not 1600hp as in the publications, I could be wrong!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Oct 2025 ==

Thanks for posting a bit more - am I right to conclude that you were working for BR at the depot in those days? Was that electrical work?

I was thinking, I guess there are still a good number of people around who would have seen the LMS diesel twins in operation, but I would think maybe not so many people about these days who had the chance to actually travel in one of them.

I expect you know already but it occurs to me to mention it just in case not, the group that are working to build a recreated one - LMS10000 - the Ivatt Diesel Recreation Society

They have a website detailing their plans and what they are up to - hope this link works ok so you can have a look if you don't know it already

www.lms10000.com

Ivatt Diesel Recreation Society

Reconstructing Britain's first mainline diesel locomotive, 10000

lms10000.com

 

[R Martin]

That’s a great picture. Very well lit with great atmosphere

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Oct 2025 ==


Thanks for posting a bit more - am I right to conclude that you were working for BR at the depot in those days? Was that electrical work?

I was thinking, I guess there are still a good number of people around who would have seen the LMS diesel twins in operation, but I would think maybe not so many people about these days who had the chance to actually travel in one of them.

I expect you know already but it occurs to me to mention it just in case not, the group that are working to build a recreated one - LMS10000 - the Ivatt Diesel Recreation Society

They have a website detailing their plans and what they are up to - hope this link works ok so you can have a look if you don't know it already

www.lms10000.com

Ivatt Diesel Recreation Society

Reconstructing Britain's first mainline diesel locomotive, 10000

lms10000.com

Yes I was an electrician and I worked on the 24's, 20's Twins, Southerns, and occasionally on the 40's. BR sent me on a course to train me as an electrical fitter at Stratford in (I think about 1964). The duchesses I mentioned in my last post were probably awaiting scrapping as the 25kV 0verhead wire was being energized at Crew and shortly afterwards between Tring and Watford for Driver training. I recall Willesden becoming crowded with steam loco's after they energized as far as Nuneaton. Yes there were plenty of Brits, plus Evening Star and her sisters. Also at that time Willesden DED was also being constructed between the DC Electric lines and the slow lines South of the old station. After that I was given a job in the AC Traction office at Euston so I lost touch with my mates as they were all transferred to The new DED shortly after. I'd love to heard from any of my mates from those times.

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes I was an electrician and I worked on the 24's, 20's Twins, Southerns, and occasionally on the 40's. BR sent me on a course to train me as an electrical fitter at Stratford in (I think about 1964). The duchesses I mentioned in my last post were probably awaiting scrapping as the 25kV 0verhead wire was being energized at Crew and shortly afterwards between Tring and Watford for Driver training. I recall Willesden becoming crowded with steam loco's after they energized as far as Nuneaton. Yes there were plenty of Brits, plus Evening Star and her sisters. Also at that time Willesden DED was also being constructed between the DC Electric lines and the slow lines South of the old station. After that I was given a job in the AC Traction office at Euston so I lost touch with my mates as they were all transferred to The new DED shortly after. I'd love to heard from any of my mates from those times.

Thanks for posting these memories. It must have seemed like a massive period of change with the 25kv on the west coast coming on stream during those days.

growing up in the south I thought the southern diesels you mention were interesting but I’m too young to have ever seen them. Just in pictures including near where I grew up. But I thought the LMS twins were visually more striking.

Presumably it’s likely some of your old colleagues are still about.

 

[R Martin]

Thanks for posting these memories. It must have seemed like a massive period of change with the 25kv on the west coast coming on stream during those days.

growing up in the south I thought the southern diesels you mention were interesting but I’m too young to have ever seen them. Just in pictures including near where I grew up. But I thought the LMS twins were visually more striking.

Presumably it’s likely some of your old colleagues are still about.

Yes, it was.

When the AC locos started running into Euston, the comparisons between a EE4 and a AL5 were staggering. Standard timing for a Type 4 to Willesden was 11 minutes for a standard and 13 minutes for a heavy train. AL5 with 12 or 14 behind did it in about 6 or 7 minutes, reaching 100 before Wembley.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Oct 2025 ==

That’s a great picture. Very well lit with great atmosphere

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Oct 2025 ==


Thanks for posting a bit more - am I right to conclude that you were working for BR at the depot in those days? Was that electrical work?

I was thinking, I guess there are still a good number of people around who would have seen the LMS diesel twins in operation, but I would think maybe not so many people about these days who had the chance to actually travel in one of them.

I expect you know already but it occurs to me to mention it just in case not, the group that are working to build a recreated one - LMS10000 - the Ivatt Diesel Recreation Society

They have a website detailing their plans and what they are up to - hope this link works ok so you can have a look if you don't know it already

www.lms10000.com

Ivatt Diesel Recreation Society

Reconstructing Britain's first mainline diesel locomotive, 10000

lms10000.com

There was a lot of electrical work on the diesels, don't forget they were electric dive and control. The steam heating boilers were also electrically controlled A funny thing that I always remember was that the twins always had the last part of the number on the door, which was always open, so if you if the approached from the wrong side you couldn't read the number. Sorry if I bored you with my "old man" memories

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes, it was.

When the AC locos started running into Euston, the comparisons between a EE4 and a AL5 were staggering. Standard timing for a Type 4 to Willesden was 11 minutes for a standard and 13 minutes for a heavy train. AL5 with 12 or 14 behind did it in about 6 or 7 minutes, reaching 100 before Wembley.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Oct 2025 ==


There was a lot of electrical work on the diesels, don't forget they were electric dive and control. The steam heating boilers were also electrically controlled A funny thing that I always remember was that the twins always had the last part of the number on the door, which was always open, so if you if the approached from the wrong side you couldn't read the number. Sorry if I bored you with my "old man" memories

Not at all boring! One of the interesting things on the site is always recollections from
Long serving or retired railway staff I always think.

I had no idea that the speed up from diesel to 25kv was as much as you describe. Fascinating. Must have seemed like a real transformation.

Your other comment reminds me I think I’ve seen a photo of one of the twins with door open and number thus not clear as a result.

I’ve seen an old LMS film unit film of them under construction which was interesting.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

When the AC locos started running into Euston, the comparisons between a EE4 and a AL5 were staggering. Standard timing for a Type 4 to Willesden was 11 minutes for a standard and 13 minutes for a heavy train. AL5 with 12 or 14 behind did it in about 6 or 7 minutes, reaching 100 before Wembley.

That doesn't surprise me in a way, although those days were before my time so to speak. My first visits as a teenager to Willesden (the new version over on the Up side) was about a year after the AL7s had entered service, which I always found to be an attractive looking design, similar (for me) to the Brush 4's, so probably something about just two windscreens and a reasonably clean front end appearance. That said in later years I did often take advantage of runs behind the earlier ALs when opportunity provided same, and even in their twilight years the AL5's could give one a good run for one's money.

 

[Taunton]

I had no idea that the speed up from diesel to 25kv was as much as you describe. Fascinating. Must have seemed like a real transformation.

When the first AC electrics were introduced, they were indeed driven in a manner that more recently became lost. Cecil J Allen, doyen train timer, headed his magazine article about his first electric departure from Euston "93 mph at Willesden - going Down !". For one of his experience it must have seemed like a parallel universe. It was almost unknown on the WCML at that time to reach 93 mph anywhere, steam or diesel.

Meanwhile I recall early 1960s on the Taunton to Liverpool day train, changing locos at Crewe, where after hours of diesel rumbling via Hereford, and still being late, the train, maybe 12 coaches or so, would set off from Crewe like a scalded cat, and quite readily reach 100 mph, if not more, by Winsford, then brakes hard on for the Hartford stop. At that time they still had main line drivers who were born in the 19th Century, for whom this must have all seemed almost unreal.

 

[thedbdiboy]

When the first AC electrics were introduced, they were indeed driven in a manner that more recently became lost. Cecil J Allen, doyen train timer, headed his magazine article about his first electric departure from Euston "93 mph at Willesden - going Down !". For one of his experience it must have seemed like a parallel universe. It was almost unknown on the WCML at that time to reach 93 mph anywhere, steam or diesel.

Meanwhile I recall early 1960s on the Taunton to Liverpool day train, changing locos at Crewe, where after hours of diesel rumbling via Hereford, and still being late, the train, maybe 12 coaches or so, would set off from Crewe like a scalded cat, and quite readily reach 100 mph, if not more, by Winsford, then brakes hard on for the Hartford stop. At that time they still had main line drivers who were born in the 19th Century, for whom this must have all seemed almost unreal.

I can imagine how phenomenal that must have seemed - the initial climb out of Euston required cable haulage when built so to witness that level of acceleration would have been incredible.
There are two comparable more recent experiences I can compare this too - the first was my first trip on a TGV in the early 90s. I was travelling from Geneva to Paris and for the first half of the journey the TGV used conventional tracks and meandered along. Then we accessed the LGV - the high speed line - and the acceleration I experienced took my breath away. It was not so much the top speed but the traction and ability to accelerate, as well as the design of the LGV, where gradients like a rollercoaster could be eaten up by the power-to-weight and sheer traction of the train. It made me aware of just how sub-optimal the WCML was for high speed running, where (Camden bank excepted) severe gradients were avoided because the little engines of the time couldn't cope with them, but the curves were too severe for sustained high speed running without tilting trains.
The second experience was my first trip out of Paddington on an IET 800 series under electric traction. HSTs were no slouches but the 800 took off like sh*t from a shovel....

 

[Rescars]

At that time they still had main line drivers who were born in the 19th Century, for whom this must have all seemed almost unreal.

A generation who had been brought up in a world where speedometers were a novelty.....

 

[D Mylchreest]

[...]

When the AC locos started running into Euston, the comparisons between a EE4 and a AL5 were staggering. Standard timing for a Type 4 to Willesden was 11 minutes for a standard and 13 minutes for a heavy train. AL5 with 12 or 14 behind did it in about 6 or 7 minutes, reaching 100 before Wembley.

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[...]

With 2000hp for the D200 vs 3300hp for the AL5 that really can't be a surprise

 

[The Crab]

With 2000hp for the D200 vs 3300hp for the AL5 that really can't be a surprise

It's rather worse than that - losses in the generator would only provide something like 1800hp to the traction motors. I'm sure someone can give a more detailed explanation.

 

[D Mylchreest]

Yes, I agree. I was only mentioning the high level, theoretical, power outputs. The power at the drawbar will be a lot less.