Will Britain's Railways Ever Be Renationalised?

[Class08Shunter]

Hey guys do you think that Britain's Railways will ever be renationalised?

 

[Bletchleyite]

A fair whack of them already has been, i.e.:

Network Rail
Northern
Southeastern
LNER

In financial terms all of it is, though it's a bit more like Councils outsourcing bin emptying than true nationalisation.

 

[Intercity110]

2023 GBR is halfway there

 

[RailWonderer]

The railways are too much of a public burden for the government to ever want to be involved in the ins and outs ever again. They will subcontract some of the duties to private companies and pull the strings, as they are doing now with direct award and OLR, and even a few OLR operations are proving too much for them to want to handle. Whatever organisation is politically and practically convenient in the day will be the favourite one. I think the 1948-1996 nationalisation era was just a post war anomaly of a time where the government wanted and needed to run everything because a) it could afford to, the economy was rebuilding and growing astoundingly and b) the private pre-war railway companies were bankrupt or near bankrupcy and there was no other choice.

Every reorganisation since has been about finding the correct way to handle a unique problem that the railway is to the government. It can't survive without subsidy and investment, but cannot be left to private companies because they take the weight off government's shoulders when it comes to the day to day mundane running.

 

[Class08Shunter]

2023 GBR is halfway there

I thought GBR was cancelled.

 

[Intercity110]

I thought GBR was cancelled.

it is?

 

[Class08Shunter]

A fair whack of them already has been, i.e.:

Network Rail
Northern
Southeastern
LNER

In financial terms all of it is, though it's a bit more like Councils outsourcing bin emptying than true nationalisation.

Maybe Avanti West Coast will go into public ownership with trains being cancelled. The contracts been extended to April next year so they can improve services.

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it is?

I read a few articles saying GBR was cancelled.

 

[Simon11]

GBRTT team still going strong and in fact are still recruiting with 5 vacancies currently live

Job Search | GBRTT Jobs

jobs.gbrtt.co.uk

 

[william.martin]

Hey guys do you think that Britain's Railways will ever be renationalised?

I hope so however I find it unlikely. Imagine a BR large logo 390

 

[Class08Shunter]

I hope so however I find it unlikely. Imagine a BR large logo 390

I think it would look alright in Large Logo livery but I think it would look better with a small logo.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2022 ==

I don't think it would be a good idea to put the new BR into sectors again. My dad worked for BR when sectorisation happened. He didn't like the idea of it being put into sectors. It meant you wouldn't be able to use one sectors loco for another sector. E.g. An Intercity loco cannot be used for Regional Railways. When my dad worked for BR, a Speedlink loco broke down while pulling freight, so they had to get a loco from another sector to pull the freight. My dad preferred the rail network to be split into regions.

 

[eldomtom2]

I think the 1948-1996 nationalisation era was just a post war anomaly of a time where the government wanted and needed to run everything because a) it could afford to, the economy was rebuilding and growing astoundingly and b) the private pre-war railway companies were bankrupt or near bankrupcy and there was no other choice.

Well, I think the main point there is c) the Attlee government was ideologically committed to public ownership. I certainly think if the Tories had won the 1945 election they would have found some other method of dealing with the railways.

I thought GBR was cancelled.

GBR the organisation is still going on, but the process of creating it can only go so far without an Act of Parliament, and progress on that has apparently stalled among all the recent chaos.

 

[Energy]

In financial terms all of it is, though it's a bit more like Councils outsourcing bin emptying than true nationalisation.

I think this is where it is going, day to day operations are run by contracted companies, with the DfT/GBR making executive decisions.

 

[Class08Shunter]

Well, I think the main point there is c) the Attlee government was ideologically committed to public ownership. I certainly think if the Tories had won the 1945 election they would have found some other method of dealing with the railways.

GBR the organisation is still going on, but the process of creating it can only go so far without an Act of Parliament, and progress on that has apparently stalled among all the recent chaos.

A link says it won't go ahead in 2024 due to the scrapping of the transport bill.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A link says it won't go ahead in 2024 due to the scrapping of the transport bill.

Primary legislation is needed to create GBR itself, but I don't see why you couldn't create a "shadow GBR" within DaFT because that's just corporate reorganising - you can do that when you like.

 

[sprinterguy]

I think it would look alright in Large Logo livery but I think it would look better with a small logo.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2022 ==

I don't think it would be a good idea to put the new BR into sectors again. My dad worked for BR when sectorisation happened. He didn't like the idea of it being put into sectors. It meant you wouldn't be able to use one sectors loco for another sector. E.g. An Intercity loco cannot be used for Regional Railways. When my dad worked for BR, a Speedlink loco broke down while pulling freight, so they had to get a loco from another sector to pull the freight. My dad preferred the rail network to be split into regions.

BR under sectorisation was the most efficient and accountable that it ever was - And a good deal more economical than the privatised railway ever has been since.

it is?

I read a few articles saying GBR was cancelled.

It certainly seems to be under quite a thorough review at present - I always suspected it to be a project likely to be stillborn, although it seems possible that, much like many train services at present, we might eventually see it arrive delayed and smaller than expected:

Great British Railways plan to oversee rail network delayed

Transport secretary says scrapping of transport bill means plan will not go ahead in 2024

www.theguardian.com

Great British Railways (GBR), which would take over from the infrastructure management company Network Rail and be responsible for handing out rail contracts, will not go ahead in 2024 owing to the scrapping of the transport bill.

The transport secretary, Anne-Marie Trevelyan, told the Commons that the bill was being abolished because of the need to prioritise legislation to deal with the energy crisis.

She said a lighter version of the bill could be put forward looking at legislation around transport technologies such as e-scooters.

 

[Class08Shunter]

BR under sectorisation was the most efficient and accountable that it ever was - And a good deal more economical than the privatised railway ever has been since.

Anything to do with BR (except the Beeching Cuts) was better than the privatised network. But I thought BR before sectorisation was better than after sectorisation.

 

[Arkeeos]

Basically inevitable at this point, it will probably look different to British Rail though.

 

[Class08Shunter]

Basically inevitable at this point, it will probably look different to British Rail though.

You're probably right about that.

 

[Benters]

I think it would look alright in Large Logo livery but I think it would look better with a small logo.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2022 ==

I don't think it would be a good idea to put the new BR into sectors again. My dad worked for BR when sectorisation happened. He didn't like the idea of it being put into sectors. It meant you wouldn't be able to use one sectors loco for another sector. E.g. An Intercity loco cannot be used for Regional Railways. When my dad worked for BR, a Speedlink loco broke down while pulling freight, so they had to get a loco from another sector to pull the freight. My dad preferred the rail network to be split into regions.

So do l

 

[RobShipway]

I believe that a form of GBR will go ahead within the next 4 years.

 

[Chester1]

Those who want BR back will be disappointed but I think if Labour win next election the system will mostly be in state hands. BR cannot come back because of Scottish and Welsh devolution. Even trying to intergrate TfL services, Northern, Merseyrail or WMR into a national operator would be very politically risky. Freight is unlikely to be nationalised because its the big success of privatisation and open access will likely continue. I think Network Rail will stay as it is, there will be a Deutshe Bahn style British intercity operator, TfW, Scotrail and regional English operators, all owned by various branches of government. Labour won't want to fund buying the Roscos but they could be abolished slowly by government buying new trains.

 

[skyhigh]

Anything to do with BR (except the Beeching Cuts) was better than the privatised network.

Anything? Very much rose tinted glasses there I think.

 

[Wynd]

Scotrail services are now under national control, and in time, the infrastructure may well go the same way. Its an anomaly that NR isn't already fully accountable to Holyrood.

As for Rosco's, that feels like a stretch. Huge sums of capital tied up in depreciating assets may well be a bridge to far for governments of all colours.

 

[Ken H]

The government will shy away from nationalisation. They like being able to blame a private company for the 08:30 from Angmering being 10 late last Thursday. Unless they put the railway in a big QUANGO, like Highways England (or whatever they are called this week)
They will also keep leasing. There is no way the treasury can afford to buy out the ROSCOs, nor can it afford stacks of new trains. Leasing takes rolling stock out of government capex.

 

[Irascible]

I think this is where it is going, day to day operations are run by contracted companies, with the DfT/GBR making executive decisions.

Yes, otherwise how else is public money going to be filtered out of the system without any return.

 

[Western Lord]

Well, I think the main point there is c) the Attlee government was ideologically committed to public ownership. I certainly think if the Tories had won the 1945 election they would have found some other method of dealing with the railways.

If the Tories had won in 1945 they would have had to deal with the fact that the railways were broke and clapped out by six years of war. When they returned to power in 1951 they kept almost all the nationalised industries in state hands. Iron and steel returned to private ownership and road haulage was opened up but the state owned British Road Services continued and they maintained state ownership of Tilling group buses and things which the government had no business to be in such as hotels and Thomas Cook. The state owned airlines also continued, largely protected from competition.

 

[RailWonderer]

Maybe Avanti West Coast will go into public ownership with trains being cancelled. The contracts been extended to April next year so they can improve services.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2022 ==


I read a few articles saying GBR was cancelled.

Or the army will learn to drive the Pendolinos

 

[dk1]

2023 GBR is halfway there

Is that even a thing anymore?

 

[william.martin]

Or the army will learn to drive the Pendolinos

Imagine: Dear passengers welcome aboard HMS pendolino calling at f18, f22 and f35