Will Birmingham ever see later night departures

[centraltrains]

All the transport in Birmingham seems to rapidly come to a very infrequent slump past around 7PM and is then is all nearly gone past 11PM. It makes the cheap Network West Midlands super-off peak evening fare look like a joke as there is hardly any services it can actually be used on!

There are very few night bus services in Birmingham making it very hard to get around at all during unsociable hours.

Places like Witton seem to have loads of activity going on during the late hours - yet no transport to supplement this activity.

I know they new franchise agreement is going to improve our Sunday services drastically, but what about the evenings. It seems very limiting if the transport won't be progressing towards a 24-hour city status until the next franchise!

As the 2nd city and part of the 2nd biggest county, It surely should follow that some of Londons late night activity should follow to us soon!

 

[ChrisHogan]

All the transport in Birmingham seems to rapidly come to a very infrequent slump past around 7PM and is then is all nearly gone past 11PM. It makes the cheap Network West Midlands super-off peak evening fare look like a joke as there is hardly any services it can actually be used on!

There are very few night bus services in Birmingham making it very hard to get around at all during unsociable hours.

Places like Witton seem to have loads of activity going on during the late hours - yet no transport to supplement this activity.

I know they new franchise agreement is going to improve our Sunday services drastically, but what about the evenings. It seems very limiting if the transport won't be progressing towards a 24-hour city status until the next franchise!

As the 2nd city and part of the 2nd biggest county, It surely should follow that some of Londons late night activity should follow to us soon!

It's the other way around; weekday evening frequencies are generally enhanced from December 2018 while the Sunday enhancements generally don't start until December 2021. See Appendix F of the Stakeholder Briefing or the TSR issued with the ITT last year.

 

[the sniper]

Places like Witton seem to have loads of activity going on during the late hours - yet no transport to supplement this activity.

Stabbings, shootings and the occasional rape aren't activities that need to be supplemented by additional public transport...

Seriously, other than Villa home games, what activities are going on in Witton in the evening that the railway need to serve better? There's very little outbound traffic after 1900, even without narrowing the criteria to fare paying passengers.

 

[route:oxford]

It's shocking given Birmingham's supposed hub status.

The last train from Birmingham to Oxford/Reading is just after 10pm. Not ideal for business dinner, let alone anyone connecting from a West Coast or Cross Country Service that left Edinburgh after 5pm

From Birmingham to Bicester, it's a staggering early 21:15.

I've missed the connetion twice due to late running inbound services, never again. It meant grabbing the 23:10 to London, then walking to Marble Arch to get the Tube back to Oxford.

This is why I park and fly.

 

[ooo]

It's shocking given Birmingham's supposed hub status.
.

I've missed the connetion twice due to late running inbound services, never again. It meant grabbing the 23:10 to London, then walking to Marble Arch to get the Tube back to Oxford.

This is why I park and fly.

Is that what staff tell you to do then when you've missed the connection?

 

[Llanigraham]

It's shocking given Birmingham's supposed hub status.

The last train from Birmingham to Oxford/Reading is just after 10pm. Not ideal for business dinner, let alone anyone connecting from a West Coast or Cross Country Service that left Edinburgh after 5pm

From Birmingham to Bicester, it's a staggering early 21:15.

I've missed the connetion twice due to late running inbound services, never again. It meant grabbing the 23:10 to London, then walking to Marble Arch to get the Tube back to Oxford.

This is why I park and fly.

Gosh!!
That's clever!!
When did the Tube extend out that far?

 

[sjoh]

Gosh!!
That's clever!!
When did the Tube extend out that far?

Oxford Tube is a 24hr coach operation between London and ...well... guess.

 

[Llanigraham]

Oxford Tube is a 24hr coach operation between London and ...well... guess.

Then perhaps he should have explained that! :roll::roll:

 

[Temple Meads]

Then perhaps he should have explained that! :roll::roll:

Calm down dear!

 

[Antman]

Then perhaps he should have explained that! :roll::roll:

The Oxford Tube is quite well known. Having said that some overseas tourists were under the impression that the District Line went to Oxford, I'm sure you've guessed it.................they were told to get the Oxford Tube from Victoria. Staff soon pointed them in the right direction.

 

[Llanigraham]

It might be well know to those in the wild south east of england, but sorry, I had never heard of it here in the civilised middle of Wales.

 

[Confused147]

I doubt anywhere North of dividing line from Bristol to Colchester will see improved late night services. The Dft are too South East biased.

 

[ChrisHogan]

I doubt anywhere North of dividing line from Bristol to Colchester will see improved late night services. The Dft are too South East biased.

Surely the whole point about the DfT franchise reletting process is that it goes through a lengthy and well-advertised consultation process and then draws up the ITT/TSR based on responses from passengers, what Network Rail thinks is deliverable, and how much franchise support is likely to be available?

For the WM franchise, the number of people asking for later trains on West Midlands local services was the smallest of all the WM service groups and this is probably why the DfT concentrated on more requested aspects such as longer trains and greater capacity. (Source DfT Stakeholder Briefing published last year).

 

[Starmill]

I doubt anywhere North of dividing line from Bristol to Colchester will see improved late night services. The Dft are too South East biased.

You may want to examine the December 2017 Timetable changes thread.

 

[sjoh]

Then perhaps he should have explained that! :roll::roll:

Perfectly understandable you weren't aware of it, but the assumption that someone claiming to use the tube to get to Oxford would seriously be claiming the underground goes to Oxford seems a little bloody minded when a quick google of "tube to oxford" throws up the Oxford Tube as the first result.

 

[AndyW33]

There are very few night bus services in Birmingham making it very hard to get around at all during unsociable hours.

Once upon a time there was a comprehensive night bus network in Birmingham, with synchronised hourly departures, all from the same City Centre street (Colmore Row) allowing you to connect there between routes. In those days it was seen as socially necessary for night workers and people having a night out, and also functioned as a staff bus for crews and depot staff. But it was never economic and survived by cross subsidy. Once this became politically unacceptable, goodbye night buses.

 

[sprinterguy]

The OP must be having a laugh? There's half hourly trains on the Crosscity until after 11pm, and hourly services on the Solihull and Shirley arms of the Snow Hill lines until a similar hour. Plus, a friend of mine who lives in Erdington appears to be able to catch buses home until after 1am, and I assume that this can't be the only bus route in Brum where this is possible.

After living there for eight years, I have always considered Birmingham to have excellent late night public transport links: If you're really intent on cruising around in the early hours of the morning, stump up the cash like everyone else and take a taxi.

 

[TheDavibob]

I'm not convinced a 23.15 final northbound train on the Cross City is particularly great for a high-frequency suburban line - it makes doing things in the evening in Brum somewhat tricky (e.g. returning from an evening football match is possible, but only just). From what I remember of that last train it's pretty busy (much much more so than a generic off-peak Cross City service) which suggests reasonable demand for a later service.

Maybe I'm spoilt these days by living in reasonable proximity to London, from which I can get a train back at well after midnight, and they have (heavy and underground) metro services leaving Zone 1 until, again, well after midnight. It does make the last CC service seem at least half an hour too early.

 

[The Planner]

It is that time as that train has to get back before the block comes on at 0025.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm not convinced a 23.15 final northbound train on the Cross City is particularly great for a high-frequency suburban line - it makes doing things in the evening in Brum somewhat tricky (e.g. returning from an evening football match is possible, but only just). From what I remember of that last train it's pretty busy (much much more so than a generic off-peak Cross City service) which suggests reasonable demand for a later service.

Well I don't know where you watch your football, but I would see the final whistle at Molineux, have a pint in the Western afterwards, and still be back at New St in time for what was then the 2239 to Lichfield.

The last train was always busy, particularly towards the end of the week - because it was the last train. The penultimate train was relatively empty. If you made the last train later, not that many extra people would use the services - just that those in the last one move to the new last one.

However that last train used to be reknowned for drivers giving it the beans and running early all the way up.

 

[bussnapperwm]

Why don't they send the last Worcester ex New Street via Stourbridge and an additional Stourbridge ex Walsall to run say 45-60 minutes later. It would be better than risking ones life on the NXWM 9

Especially with all these works affecting Bromsgrove at the moment.

 

[The Planner]

As long as it is clear before the block comes on at Hartlebury at 2350.

 

[greatkingrat]

As long as it is clear before the block comes on at Hartlebury at 2350.

But is that time really set in stone? There are many two track railways where the last train isn't until gone 0100 and they still manage to do the maintenance somehow, so what is so special about this line that it has to close at 2350?

 

[The Planner]

It depends on how much you want to erode that time by. Its a time agreed by both the maintainer and operator. You can ask the same question about any time in the EAS.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

The problem with later or even earlier services is the Network Rail Engineering Access. We at the Stourbridge Line User Group have been lobbying for earlier Sunday Morning services but NR seem to think that our route needs a nine hour block at the weekend when many other routes in the West Midlands can cope with six or seven. Getting frustrated!

 

[Bald Rick]

But is that time really set in stone? There are many two track railways where the last train isn't until gone 0100 and they still manage to do the maintenance somehow, so what is so special about this line that it has to close at 2350?

Because there are not an unlimited number of maintenance staff and machines.

Lines that have shorter blocks will have work on them most nights. Lines with longer blocks may only see work one night in 3 or 4, but in that time you might get as much done in that time as in 2 or 3 shorter blocks.

Now, you could shorten the overnight blocks on every line, but you would need about twice as many people and a lot more machinery. Which means twice the maintenance cost.

 

[Starmill]

Later trains (and by extension blocks that start later?) are already in place on a number of similar route for Friday and Saturday nights only. That would be much more use than nothing.

If it were up to me I would rather have more trains but more frequent replacement buses / diversions on late evening services. The Snow Hill lines are not the worst for it though.