Wick/ Thurso to Penzance, by Sprinter

[Butts]

Never mind the semantics...whats the answer please ?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

You'd struggle non-stop as it'd be a hell of a drive for the driver

A HST could do it, yes, with a dead clear run (as in it got priority over every train) I'd guess 15 hours, but that's a very rough guess. That's working off the basis of Inverness-Stirling-Cumbernauld-Motherwell-WCML-Crewe-Birmingham NS-Exeter St Davids-Penzance, but I'm not sure if HSTs are cleared via Cumbernauld. If not it'd have to run via Edinburgh and reverse, probably adding an hour or more.

 

[Butts]

You'd struggle non-stop as it'd be a hell of a drive for the driver

A HST could do it, yes, with a dead clear run (as in it got priority over every train) I'd guess 15 hours, but that's a very rough guess. That's working off the basis of Inverness-Stirling-Cumbernauld-Motherwell-WCML-Crewe-Birmingham NS-Exeter St Davids-Penzance, but I'm not sure if HSTs are cleared via Cumbernauld. If not it'd have to run via Edinburgh and reverse, probably adding an hour or more.

Thanks - you could have a spare driver...that would be quite a sight an HST pulling into Thurso rather than the usual "tonka trains"

If David Cameron wished to make this journey who has the authority to "clear all the tracks" to enable the journey to be non-stop ?

 

[richw]

Could it be done on one tank of fuel? I am assuming so from the diagrams fgw hsts work in a day. What range does a tank of fuel have in a hst

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[junglejames]

But would it have enough fuel? Whats the longest diagram EC HSTs do? That is still a push to do on a single tank, and so the power cars get refuelled during the day.

For a rough guestimate as to whether it could make it. Its 920 miles Wick to Penzance going via Cumbernauld and Lancaster.
A single power car holds 990 gallons according to wiki. Im pretty sure the power cars use less than 1 gallon per mile nowadays, so yes, they should manage it. But would they let the power cars run so low?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Thanks - you could have a spare driver...that would be quite a sight an HST pulling into Thurso rather than the usual "tonka trains"

If David Cameron wished to make this journey who has the authority to "clear all the tracks" to enable the journey to be non-stop ?

Just realised I based all that on starting from Inverness and not Thurso, I don't know if HSTs are cleared on the Far North AFAIK trains need to be halted for a driver changeover, that would twart a non-stop run :P

I would assume the planners would have the authority to do so (and relevant overlords of course), it would just be a pain to do. I think the only train to get priority over anything is the royal train (with royalty onboard), but the operation of that is a really complex affair.

 

[junglejames]

Sorry Rich. Never saw you asking the same question.
Im pretty sure ECs longest diagram is over 1000 miles.
So yes, you should manage Wick to Penzance on a single tank. Just.

 

[richw]

Think it will be touch and go. A bit of eco driving should make it.

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[Butts]

Sorry Rich. Never saw you asking the same question.
Im pretty sure ECs longest diagram is over 1000 miles.
So yes, you should manage Wick to Penzance on a single tank. Just.

Can you imagine the sight of "The Highland Chieftan" using a fully decked out HST and carriages pulling into Penzance...lording it over FGW units that have to give it a clear pathway !!
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Think it will be touch and go. A bit of eco driving should make it.

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I want top speed all the way as weve cleared the lines ...lets take it to the limit with a fill up enroute if necessary !!!

 

[ainsworth74]

Can you imagine the sight of "The Highland Chieftan" using a fully decked out HST and carriages pulling into Penzance...lording it over FGW units that have to give it a clear pathway !!

Yes. Seeing as the only significant external difference between an East Coast HST and an FGW HST is the colour scheme

 

[Drsatan]

I want top speed all the way as weve cleared the lines ...lets take it to the limit with a fill up enroute if necessary !!!

Good question. Where would you fill it up though? I'd have thought an HST could be fuelled from a road tanker at Taunton Fairwater Yard (assuming an HST could make it there from Wick on one tank), or from Crewe LNWR, if there's a fuelling point there.

I wish RailUK had an unlimited budget to carry out all these challenges in real life!

 

[sprinterguy]

Could it be done on one tank of fuel? I am assuming so from the diagrams fgw hsts work in a day. What range does a tank of fuel have in a hst

HSTs have a fuel range of around 1500 miles on a full tank. Of course, you would want to make sure that you used a good set for a run as long as this one to ensure the best fuel economy. It'd probably be best to use a shortened set as well.

 

[Butts]

Yes. Seeing as the only significant external difference between an East Coast HST and an FGW HST is the colour scheme

Pedant.......don't forget the catering (or lack of it !!!)

 

[sprinterguy]

For a rough guestimate as to whether it could make it. Its 920 miles Wick to Penzance going via Cumbernauld and Lancaster.
A single power car holds 990 gallons according to wiki. Im pretty sure the power cars use less than 1 gallon per mile nowadays, so yes, they should manage it. But would they let the power cars run so low?

Virgin Crosscountry's longest HST diagram used to be around 1,200 miles, presumably on one tank of fuel.

 

[junglejames]

HSTs have a fuel range of around 1500 miles on a full tank. Of course, you would want to make sure that you used a good set for a run as long as this one to ensure the best fuel economy. It'd probably be best to use a shortened set as well.

A 2+7 with very few stops may manage close to 1500 miles, but ECs sets certainly dont manage that in a normal day. But the 9th coach has made a big difference
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Virgin Crosscountry's longest HST diagram used to be around 1,200 miles, presumably on one tank of fuel.

What with the old Valentas? I know they only had 7 coaches, but I doubt they attempted a 1200 mile diagram on a single tank.
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Briefly getting away from HSTs. What is Aberdeen to Edinburgh/ Glasgow like for 158s? Just in case the Inverness to Edinburgh trains fail me, I may need to make a detour and go via Aberdeen.

 

[sprinterguy]

What with the old Valentas? I know they only had 7 coaches, but I doubt they attempted a 1200 mile diagram on a single tank.

Yep, that was with the old Valentas. Perhaps it wasn't on a single tank, but I can't think of where Virgin XCs' HSTs used to lay over long enough for refuelling during the course of a 1,200 mile diagram and when the trains were knew 1,500 miles on a single tank was definitely possible, although this performance no doubt degraded over time. Certainly, Aberdeen to Plymouth on a single tank of fuel was undertaken on a daily basis at one time while working the "Devon Scot".

 

[Butts]

Yep, that was with the old Valentas. Perhaps it wasn't on a single tank, but I can't think of where Virgin XCs' HSTs used to lay over long enough for refuelling during the course of a 1,200 mile diagram and when the trains were knew 1,500 miles on a single tank was definitely possible, although this performance no doubt degraded over time. Certainly, Aberdeen to Plymouth on a single tank of fuel was undertaken on a daily basis at one time while working the "Devon Scot".

Was the Devon Scot a superior service and more comfortable than Xc's Vomiters ?

 

[Blindtraveler]

going painfully back on topic - James, watch out for the Jen on INV GLQ 158s, got bowled twice this week on the surposed 14:47 working. The morning run however to EDB is a 158. Another pitfall is the 156/158 worked EDB GLC via Shots Semi fasts (56 past the hour) and there connectivitty with the GSW service to CAR, Or rather the lack of it
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Youve got me wanting to do this now, very much. I would far rather go to PNZ0on a 15x than a vomiter any day.

 

[sprinterguy]

Was the Devon Scot a superior service and more comfortable than Xc's Vomiters ?

I'm not sure what you define as a "superior service", but simply by using an HST it was that, and certainly more comfortable than a Voyager!

 

[Butts]

I'm not sure what you define as a "superior service", but simply by using an HST it was that, and certainly more comfortable than a Voyager!

Did it have a restaurant or buffet onboard and proper 1st Class acommodation and service ?

 

[starrymarkb]

I'd like to add a suggestion

Detour via Salisbury and wherever the 155s work these days then in theory you can get every sprinter variant...

 

[sprinterguy]

Did it have a restaurant or buffet onboard and proper 1st Class acommodation and service ?

I never travelled first class with Crosscountry in the pre-Voyager days, so I'm not sure. In an attempt to not drag this thread any further off topic, this thread might offer some information on the subject:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=61237
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I'd like to add a suggestion

Detour via Salisbury and wherever the 155s work these days then in theory you can get every sprinter variant...

I was thinking earlier that it would be interesting to aim to travel on the greatest variety of different Sprinters, so that's certainly a good idea. I think that the 155s are used on the Calder Vale route these days.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Yes, Calder Valley (Man Vic-Leeds via Bradford semi-fast I think is the usual) and Harrogate line trains.
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I think there's one booked for the West Yorkshire grand tour as well (Selby-Wakefield via Huddersfield).

 

[tbtc]

Yes, Calder Valley (Man Vic-Leeds via Bradford semi-fast I think is the usual) and Harrogate line trains.
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I think there's one booked for the West Yorkshire grand tour as well (Selby-Wakefield via Huddersfield).

AFAIK the Grand Tour interworks with the Manchester Victoria services (so one unit works a fast in one direction, a slow in the other direction and a long return to Wakefield and back)

 

[junglejames]

going painfully back on topic - James, watch out for the Jen on INV GLQ 158s, got bowled twice this week on the surposed 14:47 working. The morning run however to EDB is a 158. Another pitfall is the 156/158 worked EDB GLC via Shots Semi fasts (56 past the hour) and there connectivitty with the GSW service to CAR, Or rather the lack of it
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Youve got me wanting to do this now, very much. I would far rather go to PNZ0on a 15x than a vomiter any day.

Nice one sir. Much appreciated. Glad to see the 1045 is proving to be a 158. Now the question is. Do I want to leave Wick that morning on the first train?
Gives me 10mins in Inverness. If so, it'll mean stocking up with food in Wick the day before!

I actually just noticed the poor connectivity at Glasgow off of the Shotts fasts. However, another possibility which gets me into Glasgow a little earlier (6mins!!) is changing at Perth, Stirling, Falkirk Grahamston, Cumbernauld and Whifflet. But then there is the chance of getting hit with a 170 from Perth (the 1211), or from Stirling to Falkirk. Im pretty sure from Falkirk onwards is all 158s.

I think the best option is to go via Shotts, and hang around in Glasgow for 90mins (catching the 1742 instead of the 1611). Allows me to get something decent to eat (Can stock up on Edinburgh Rock in WH Smiths!!!) I still get to Carlisle at a reasonable ish hour.
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I'd like to add a suggestion

Detour via Salisbury and wherever the 155s work these days then in theory you can get every sprinter variant...

Great minds think alike!
Id already decided to detour via Salisbury so that I could take in a 158/159 from every operator using them (im cheating and counting 158/ 159 as the same for this case).
The 155s had also popped into my head, for the same reason as yourself (turn it into a proper Sprinter Fest). If I know for sure what they will be working, then thats a definite.
If they are regulars on the Leeds to Man Vic trains (the last time I did that, it was a 158), then it fits in quite perfectly.
Im needing to fit in an EMT 158 to complete my 158s, and so the original plan was Leeds to Sheffield, then onto Manchester via the Hope Valley (thanks to TBTC for reminding me of that route). However I could now go Leeds to Manchester Victoria on a 155. Then onto Liverpool, before coming back to Manchester Piccadilly with EMT. I should easily make Cardiff on day 2 still. (he says before remembering how many trains the HoW has!!)

Another option which made a brief appearance in my head, was to take in a Sprinter from every TOC using them. However I soon decided the detour to Norwich and Great Yarmouth was a little bit too big. Plus Ive a feeling LM will be a pain in the neck.
So I will just stick with all operators' 158/ 159s (despite what one member on here thinks, I still count them as the best DMU we have), and all types of Sprinter.
Thanks everyone. Sounding more and more appetising by the second.


If I can use this space to answer Butts (dont worry, I still count VXCs HSTs as on topic as Sprinters and HSTs are all trains!!!). 1st class was very nice. Lovely comfy seats, and a very pleasant atmosphere. The Mk2s were fantastic as well (especially when the 47 was the next vehicle in front)
Service wise. You never had free food. But you did get tea/ coffee I believe.
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Yep, that was with the old Valentas. Perhaps it wasn't on a single tank, but I can't think of where Virgin XCs' HSTs used to lay over long enough for refuelling during the course of a 1,200 mile diagram and when the trains were knew 1,500 miles on a single tank was definitely possible, although this performance no doubt degraded over time. Certainly, Aberdeen to Plymouth on a single tank of fuel was undertaken on a daily basis at one time while working the "Devon Scot".

Interesting that they managed 1500miles on a tank when new. Im assuming XCs could manage the same now then, with the MTU engine. The 2 extra coaches that EC have, make even more of a difference than I thought they did.

 

[Blindtraveler]

James, your plan via EDB is the best, Perth to Stirling is 99 percent 170 - the 158s rule the Perth to Edinburgh via Fife.
Inverness is worth missing as a much cheeper bed for the night can be had in Carlisle (the Premier Inn Central North is excillent) and if you döt mind a bit of DIY Catering there is a superb LIDL Store in Wick which I use and there was for a time a Far North guard who would recommend it to bashers going there and back in a day and in search of the makings of a substantial sandwitch and some cheep good qualitty beers.
I live in Edinburgh and its v handy to know its there if im up on a bash or visiting my better half in Orkney.

If you wanted a later start on day 2 there Cumbria Cost working just after 9 mon-Sat goes through to preston and is reliably a 156 with high back seating. Theres plenty Manchester bound sprinters from there although be warned many of the services from Blackpool can throw up a short notice pacer but almost always a 150 (X LM usually) behind it on the next train.

 

[D1009]

Interesting that they managed 1500miles on a tank when new. Im assuming XCs could manage the same now then, with the MTU engine. The 2 extra coaches that EC have, make even more of a difference than I thought they did.

I don't believe any XC diagrams even approach 1500 miles, overall average speeds are nowhere near as high as EC.

 

[junglejames]

James, your plan via EDB is the best, Perth to Stirling is 99 percent 170 - the 158s rule the Perth to Edinburgh via Fife.
Inverness is worth missing as a much cheeper bed for the night can be had in Carlisle (the Premier Inn Central North is excillent) and if you döt mind a bit of DIY Catering there is a superb LIDL Store in Wick which I use and there was for a time a Far North guard who would recommend it to bashers going there and back in a day and in search of the makings of a substantial sandwitch and some cheep good qualitty beers.
I live in Edinburgh and its v handy to know its there if im up on a bash or visiting my better half in Orkney.

Id be spending the night in Carlisle either way, as no matter what, im on the same train from Inverness.
But yes, I will miss out Inverness. I quite like Wick, so will spend a night there before coming down.
The LIDL store. Is that the one with the carpark right on the banks of the river virtually? Been in there a few times. The Wertherspoons is pretty good for something to eat in the evening as well.

If you wanted a later start on day 2 there Cumbria Cost working just after 9 mon-Sat goes through to preston and is reliably a 156 with high back seating. Theres plenty Manchester bound sprinters from there although be warned many of the services from Blackpool can throw up a short notice pacer but almost always a 150 (X LM usually) behind it on the next train.

Nice idea, but its no good for the latest idea of taking in a 155 somewhere. Plus could scupper my Northern 158. I will be going for a later start from Carlisle though. I cant make the last HoW from Shrewsbury on day 2, so will take the 2nd S&C service from Carlisle to Leeds, instead of the first one. Then spend the next night in Shrewsbury.

Going by timetables I have from 2011, I reckon I could do Shrewsbury to Penzance in one day. Take the first HoW service (0519?), which apparently goes onwards to Cardiff, arriving at 1017 (luckily I like 153s!!). I could then give myself a break in Cardiff, getting the 1130 to Salisbury. Then the 1347 to Exeter. Ive then apparently got a 1608 from Exeter to Plymouth, changing onto a 1755 from there to Penzance. Of course, assuming the times are still about the same. Internet here is too slow to go playing about with National Rails website!!
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I don't believe any XC diagrams even approach 1500 miles, overall average speeds are nowhere near as high as EC.

No, I know. I was just saying their HSTs (with 7 coaches) should be able to manage 1500 miles now.
True the speeds are nothing compared to EC. Although the extra stations would make a difference. Take out the station stops on XC, and the HSTs would hardly come out of notch 1

 

[D1009]

Going by timetables I have from 2011, I reckon I could do Shrewsbury to Penzance in one day. Take the first HoW service (0519?), which apparently goes onwards to Cardiff, arriving at 1017 (luckily I like 153s!!). I could then give myself a break in Cardiff, getting the 1130 to Salisbury. Then the 1347 to Exeter. Ive then apparently got a 1608 from Exeter to Plymouth, changing onto a 1755 from there to Penzance.

I believe the 1605 Exeter to Plymouth is also a single 153. I believe it's one of the trains FGW were asked to run when SWT withdrew services west of Exeter.

 

[Blindtraveler]

james, a plan defo. Yes that is the same shop!