Why the excessive sitting time at Derby on Nottingham-Birmingham route?

[LTJ87]

Apologies if this has been covered before (I did search). I regularly travel from Nottingham to Birmingham and this journey seems to take longer and longer due to excessive sitting time at Derby station.

For example, last year the 07.10 from Nottingham to Cardiff was moved to an earlier departure time of 07.00, even though it is timetabled to arrive to Birmingham at the same time of 08.25. The train now spends approximately 10 minutes sitting at Derby station.

Travelling back from Birmingham it can be even worse. For example the 17.09 train from Birmingham takes 1 hour and 28 minutes and normally sits at Derby station for at least 15 minutes. This is just ridiculous! (Though more recently, it has been possible to take the 17.30 Birmingham to Newcastle service which goes directly to Derby and catch-up with the 17.09 at Derby, but it is a very tight connection.)

Now XC have taken over the franchise, does anyone know if there is any prospect of shorter journey times on this route?

 

[me123]

I'm going to take a guess at this: it's deliberate slack timing. By building in this huge wait, XC will reduce the effect of any delays and improve their reliablity figures. It's unfair on the passenger, but the XC timetable has always had large slack thrown on to reduce the impact of any delays. It can also allow for crew changes, but I do not know if this effects this portion of the route.

 

[Nick W]

Not to mention that the driver has to change ends at Derby.

 

[P156KWJ]

bearing in mind they have to reverse at derby, and then pass Etches park, which can be very busy at peak with NR stock in the sidings on the down line, and the depot on the up line, and also, with Derby being a crew changeover location, they will allow slack just in case they don't turn up on time.
Also, it can be to do with connections to/from the north, for example, they'll bring in the train to allow passengers to alight and go, and then, say, a voyager will come in after and there's no huge crowds of people

 

[Kneedown]

Pretty much all trains on this run have around a 10 min reversal at Derby. I'm an EMT Driver, but we still work a couple of these jobs (until December) On the 17.09 Ex New St you get nearly 20mins at Derby if you have a clear run. Unfortunately you don't always get a clear run. There is some numpty in Saltley Powerbox who insists on running freights from Camp Hill, or off the Bescot line at Water Orton directly in your path, and have to follow them on yellow signals all the way to Burton, there being no loops or slow lines. Why they don't hold them back, or run them via Whitacre-Kingsbury is beyond me!

 

[O L Leigh]

I'm going to take a guess at this: it's deliberate slack timing. By building in this huge wait, XC will reduce the effect of any delays and improve their reliablity figures. It's unfair on the passenger, but the XC timetable has always had large slack thrown on to reduce the impact of any delays. It can also allow for crew changes, but I do not know if this effects this portion of the route.

There's always two ways of looking at a problem.

You may not consider it fair to the punter who joins before Derby to be hanging around for ages, but to the punter who joins after Derby it is a real boon. Given the apparent inconsistencies in pathing and regulating XC services, building in a bit of recovery time at a central point like Derby means that the service is more likely to be running to time which makes the service more punctual, reliable and attractive to punters along the entire length of the route. Without this the service would always be 10-20 minutes late, which is to no-one's advantage.

I can also see the benefit to the driver, but perhaps I won't spell that out.

This isn't a new phenomenon. Even under BR, XC services could be found hanging around waiting time at locations across the Midlands (and elsewhere). It might pad the total journey time out a bit, but at least you knew that there was a decent chance the train would actually turn up at the time they said it would.

O L Leigh

 

[LTJ87]

For example, last year the 07.10 from Nottingham to Cardiff was moved to an earlier departure time of 07.00, even though it is timetabled to arrive to Birmingham at the same time of 08.25. The train now spends approximately 10 minutes sitting at Derby station.

Travelling back from Birmingham it can be even worse. For example the 17.09 train from Birmingham takes 1 hour and 28 minutes and normally sits at Derby station for at least 15 minutes.

Having looked at the December timetable, I am pleased to note that the 17.09-18:38 service (which as I should have made clear in my post actually starts in Birmingham) has been replaced with a 17.21-18.35 service, which will make life a lot easier for me.

Disappointingly, the 07.00 service now leaves Nottingham even earlier at 06.56.

 

[LilLoaf]

haha don't you just love the XC timetable. I think its so that the train can make up for any delays on route. So for example if its a Cardiff - Nottingham service and its 15 mins late into Birmingham then once the train gets around the obstacal course that is Birmingham it can make up time on the run to Derby and in Derby station.

 

[Coradia]

Like everyone else is saying, I agree it is probrably for slack, but there might be another reason in that they are given a specific departure time from Derby in order to not hold up any of the passing EMT express trains on the Long Eaton - Beeston cross lines. Probrably have to wait in Derby for the all clear, and since there is a driver end change and all other factors makes sense to have a longer stop.

 

[Phoenix]

I catch the 16.3? Derby-Cardiff and in the last week it has seemed to never leave at the correct time but also the engineers works havent been taken into consideration as there is daily TSR's so It can vary from on time due to catching up to being 15 late

 

[mumrar]

I believe some time was built in to the turn around at Nottingham to account for the disruption caused by the station refurbishment, but also to allow for padding.

After all would you rather they quoted an 82 minute journey but were late 90% of the time or a 90 minute journey on time 90% of the time? I'd sooner know when I'm going to arrive and have some margin for error built in, airlines don't run at maximum capability timetables for example.

It also seems there is a bit of OTT stick aimed at the new timetable, if the 07:00 now leaving at 06:56 really makes that much difference to your life you must surely have to be very pressed for time