Why take double payment?

[northernrail2009]

I made a train booking online on South west trains website on tuesday and have found out today that they have taken the payment but also the same payment is sitting on my bank account as pending and i called the bank who say that the sum was done to test there was the funds in my account but now i will have to wait for 7 days for me to be able to touch the funds.

Why does this happen which seems only when booking train tickets? is it down to the banks or the TOC?

i rang the train line who was not very helpful at all but its made me so mad as i needed to use that money this weekend and now cant.

i have had this problem before but the funny thing is that i booked 3 tickets for 3 routes at the same time so it should have showed on my account as a total sum but it dont as it shows each sum for each ticket so i am right in thinking that when you pick tickets up from ticket machine that it takes the money again?

 

[dzug2]

It's certainly not confined to train tickets - I've had it happen with various purchases. It seems to be mainly where payments are authorised and taken in a two stage process - authorised at the time of purchase and taken when the tickets are printed (if sent by post) or the booking finalised. Not sure if it's the way the system is designed for whether the merchant is processing it incorrectly by starting a new transaction rather than confirming the authorised one.

Pay at the pump fuel - it nearly always happens, with a £1 pre-auth that is never taken

Recent multiple rail ticket purchases that I've made have shown up as a separate amount for each ticket - seems to be something new as it didn't in the past.

When you pick up the tickets at the machine it does NOT charge you again.

 

[Ticket Man]

I have it done by a van rental company before on a deposit. I think its a way of having access your money with out footing a transfer charge by the banks.

 

[Mvann]

Hotels used to authorize payment on arrival and take payment on departure. It worked fine until someone forgot to use the authorization number in the payment. It can be cleared, but needs the company who took the authorization to phone streamline or whoever they use to clear it.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

This a method used, notoriously, by hotels. There's been a lot of debate on the practice.
Typically, when you make the booking, they will pre-allocate a charge against your card for the cost of the booking plus and additional amount to cover any charges incurred in the bar, restaurant and even against possible repairs or replacements - its these additional charges which have led to the loudest outcry.
Of course the only amount actually 'taken' from the account are the actual and proper charges incurred by the stay, but it can be very frustrating if the hotel has pre-allocated so much to themselves beforehand; if a transport operator does the same then a simple few days away can lead to quite disproportionate loss of available credit in the meantime.

Its not a double payment, though.

 

[northernrail2009]

It's certainly not confined to train tickets - I've had it happen with various purchases. It seems to be mainly where payments are authorised and taken in a two stage process - authorised at the time of purchase and taken when the tickets are printed (if sent by post) or the booking finalised. Not sure if it's the way the system is designed for whether the merchant is processing it incorrectly by starting a new transaction rather than confirming the authorised one.

Pay at the pump fuel - it nearly always happens, with a £1 pre-auth that is never taken

Recent multiple rail ticket purchases that I've made have shown up as a separate amount for each ticket - seems to be something new as it didn't in the past.

When you pick up the tickets at the machine it does NOT charge you again.

Mine have showed up as separate amount for each ticket even when i paid the whole lot in one transaction.

 

[bnm]

This has happened to me with online grocery shopping. The retailer authorising the amount the online order is expected to be and then debiting the actual amount the goods have cost on the day they are picked and delivered. There can be differences in these amounts due to the purchase of products sold by weight and instore price changes between the day the goods are ordered and the day the goods are picked and delivered.

It is annoying to have an authorisation take so long to drop off an account though. I've waited a week before with no access to a large part of the available balance in my account due to an authorisation following an online grocery shop. Quite why the retailers can't (or won't) cancel authorisations immediately after processing a transaction and receiving the funds is beyond me.

 

[John @ home]

Quite why the retailers can't (or won't) cancel authorisations immediately after processing a transaction and receiving the funds is beyond me.

I would have used the word when rather than immediately after. The best retailers do. Those who do get my repeat custom.

 

[Bedpan]

This a method used, notoriously, by hotels. There's been a lot of debate on the practice.
Typically, when you make the booking, they will pre-allocate a charge against your card for the cost of the booking plus and additional amount to cover any charges incurred in the bar, restaurant and even against possible repairs or replacements - its these additional charges which have led to the loudest outcry.
Of course the only amount actually 'taken' from the account are the actual and proper charges incurred by the stay, but it can be very frustrating if the hotel has pre-allocated so much to themselves beforehand; if a transport operator does the same then a simple few days away can lead to quite disproportionate loss of available credit in the meantime.

Its not a double payment, though.

Yes, it works great when you go on holiday with £1000 credit on your card, book a hotel for £700 and then try to go out for a meal only to find that you can't pay because the hotel have pre-allocated the full £1000 on your account and you have no credit left. Theey should make it cleare whet they are doing when they do it, and how much they are pre-allocating, so that at least you then know where you stand.

 

[googolplex]

When I forgot my verified by visa password last year I ended up with about 4 pending transactions while trying to book a ticket from the East Coast website, as it took authorisation but didn't cancel the transaction when Verified by Visa failed.
Both East Coast and my bank said they were unable to help, which was rather frustrating - I had to borrow money off my parents just so I could buy food!

I think there should perhaps be a review of the system with authorisations being taken, funds being allocated and then not released when the payment is taken. Even if it's just to allow you to phone the bank and have them reduce some of the allocated funds back to your available balance (on the understanding that if the money is taken out, they can hit you with charges), it would be better than the current situation.

 

[SS4]

Wouldn't surprise me if banks did this on purpose since it would follow that more people are likely to go over an agreed limit and punitive charges will ensue.

 

[IanXC]

the merchant is processing it incorrectly by starting a new transaction rather than confirming the authorised one.

Almost always turns out to be this from the customer transactions I've dealt with over the years. Small retailers tend to be manually keying transactions a second time, large retailers tend to have systems which get a "main" transaction authorisation, then go through other verification such as verified by visa. If the other checks fail they decline the business, but their systems usually don't show operators that the card authorisation is in place, hence the "ping pong" between retailer and bank.

 

[185]

The pre-auth usually expires after 3/4 days. The original pre-auth is done to allow the transaction to proceed.

 

[island]

I think there should perhaps be a review of the system with authorisations being taken, funds being allocated and then not released when the payment is taken. Even if it's just to allow you to phone the bank and have them reduce some of the allocated funds back to your available balance (on the understanding that if the money is taken out, they can hit you with charges), it would be better than the current situation.

Some banks will do this. In general they will tell the customer that they need to call the merchant, and the merchant will need to phone their acquirer. And the merchant will tell you they don't know how to do it. :roll:

Regarding the hotel, if you are using a chip & PIN machine to pre-authorise a card, the amount of the pre-authorisation will show up on the pinpad so you can dispute it if you think it's too much.

Irrespective of authorisations, retailers will receive the funds from a card transaction around three days after the transaction (it may be longer for certain merchants if there is a high risk of fraud).

 

[merlodlliw]

When I book a service with Worcester Bosh for my boiler, we book a date,the amount on the debit card is then taken on the service day, but the amount is locked
to them by the system to that date, which may be 7 days hence.

A payment by debit card (Sains/Tessie) etc is taken within two working days from my account/

Bob

 

[northernrail2009]

Well it will be a week tomorrow that i booked the tickets with my Debit card so i am hoping that it goes back onto account tomorrow as that will be a week then.

I also booked more train tickets on Thursday and the same thing has happened but the funny thing is that if i get the tickets sent in the post it does not happen but only happens when i pick tickets up from station so i know people have said its nothing to do with picking the tickets up from station but im sure it is as why does it not happen when they are sent my post and why if i paid for the whole lot of tickets i booked(37.00) then it should show up on my bank account as that sum but it does not it shows each ticket up which were 3 tickets to the total sum of £37 which gets me thinking that when i put card into fast ticket thing at station its trying to take it out again.

 

[craigwilson]

Pay at the pump fuel - it nearly always happens, with a £1 pre-auth that is never taken

This £1 pre-auth business seems to be quite prevalent - iTunes, and Paypal IIRC also do this.

 

[northernrail2009]

its now a week and just checked bank account and still not gone back on.

 

[dzug2]

thinking that when i put card into fast ticket thing at station its trying to take it out again.

If that is the case why does the machine specifically tell you your card will not be charged when it asks you to insert it?

My guess as to the difference between post = 1 transaction//machine = several is that the postal tickets are posted to you together whereas you could if you wished pick up each of the machine tickets at a different station. Why they would want to do it that way - pass. Presumably something to do with accounting.

 

[MikeWh]

its now a week and just checked bank account and still not gone back on.

Yes, but how many working days have elapsed? There have been more bank holidays than working days in the last 11 actual days.

 

[northernrail2009]

Yes, but how many working days have elapsed? There have been more bank holidays than working days in the last 11 actual days.

True so how many working days will i have to wait? if i did it last tuesday?

 

[AlterEgo]

It usually takes around 7 working days. I'd give it until Wednesday morning (tomorrow) and then I would make some further enquiries.