Why should I trust rail travel?

[Shrop]

I've spent a lifetime advocating rail travel, to colleagues, friends and family, often against their scorn, but as I write this I am sadly beginning to doubt my own lifelong faith in rail travel.

My wife and I are retired, heading for a cruise from Southampton. For reasons I won't detail here, our journey from Shrewsbury made sense to have an overnight in Birmingham last night, so we booked advance rail travel accordingly.

Yesterday our through train was cancelled at Wolverhampton, forcing a half hour delay and a change of train with large suitcases.
At least this morning we should have no problem with our through train to Southampton, after all these days even on Sundays, trains are planned many months in advance in order to avoid problems aren't they?

So why then, is our 09.03 from Birmingham this morning cancelled due to "shortage of staff"? This was advertised last night, over 12 hours before departure - are there actually no reserve staff available these days?

For our return in 2 weeks, we have a journey extension of over an hour due to engineering work. Okay, I accept this and I applaud the advance planning and notification, but what I don't enjoy is when, AFTER making our booking and planning around it, a later part of our journey is then replaced by a bus from Wolverhampton.

So that's four major disruptions so far, only one of which was foreseen in the huge planning that rail companies do, many months in advance.
And as yet, we still have three sections of our journey to undertake.

Just how should I defend rail travel to those I speak to, when it really does appear that their scorn is well justified?

 

[70014IronDuke]

Sorry to hear of your travel troubles and hope you make it for your boat for an enjoyable trip.

But just imagine trying to get to Shrewsbury yesterday from the southern half of the Heart of Wales line!

Take a look at RTT at, say, Llandovery.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G40086/2026-07-11/detailed#allox_id=0

Six of the ten scheduled trains (five each way on a Saturday) failed to make the trip. Only two trains made it through from Swansea - the 04.50 (which is not much use to most people south of Llandovery) and the 07.30. The rest, and the returns were cancelled.

Northern half service maintained by reversing at Llandod, of course. But pretty miserable for any through passengers.

 

[AndrewE]

I have had similar experiences, most times that I have arranged to have a rail-based day out with non-railway friends it has collapsed in ruins. Very embarrassing!

Now I only plan to go with non-railway friends to places reached by more than 1 train service and run by different TOCs (and with alternative routes permitted,) then we have several options to complete the day!

 

[dk1]

Unfortunately Cross Country due to the nature of their traincrew agreements frequently cancel services on Sundays. On the positive side (if you can call it that) they do as you say advertise this the previous day and allow travel on services either side of the booked train to allow passengers to replan their journey.

 

[Shrop]

Unfortunately Cross Country due to the nature of their traincrew agreements frequently cancel services on Sundays. On the positive side (if you can call it that) they do as you say advertise this the previous day and allow travel on services either side of the booked train to allow passengers to replan their journey.

Yes, they seem to operate in a skeleton staff basis, ie just one person notifies XC that they won't be turning up, and despite many hours of notice, they simply have no-one else to call on.

I thought big organisations had cover, precisely as an advantage of being a big company, but it seems they run so close to the wire that there is no contingency when anything fails.

And sadly, this is the point that others have made to me, but I tried to retain faith in the railways.

I just wish I was wrong, and that rail management were more competent.

 

[dk1]

Yes, they seem to operate in a skeleton staff basis, ie just one person notifies XC that they won't be turning up, and despite many hours of notice, they simply have no-one else to call on.
I thought big organisations had cover, precisely as an advantage of being a big company, but it seems they run so close to the wire that there is no contingency when anything fails.
And sadly, this is the point that others have made to me, but I tried to retain faith in the railways.
I just wish I was wrong, and that rail management were more competent.

It’s only really on weekends when that happens with XC but especially Sundays as it works on a voluntary basis rather than committed with many operators. You’ll notice it with Northern too depending which side of the Pennines you travel.

 

[Snow1964]

Unfortunately Cross Country due to the nature of their traincrew agreements frequently cancel services on Sundays. On the positive side (if you can call it that) they do as you say advertise this the previous day and allow travel on services either side of the booked train to allow passengers to replan their journey.

But that rather verifies the Ops can't be trusted to get you there on train that was booked.

Of course can also normally get from Shrewsbury to Southampton with one change at Newport (South Wales) to avoid XC, but not today because of a bus.

But why should any customer be expected to plan around an operator that has a 7 days a week operating contract, but fails to staff it properly.

XC have bad cancellation record
latest period 3 is 8.7%, previous period 2 was 9.6%

Key Business Performance Indicators | CrossCountry Trains

Discover CrossCountry's train performance, including delays and cancellation rates, passenger satisfaction, and complaints.

www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk

 

[AlterEgo]

There is no way I would trust the railway to get me anywhere on a Sunday unless I had no alternative. During the week it's a different prospect though.

 

[Shrop]

Here's another question. XC have publicly announced that the cancellation is due to driver shortage, but this suggests that the train could still go if it had a driver.

Now, surely the trainset will be in the wrong place, so why not couple it to the next service, which then only requires the second driver?

After all, we're expecting the next train to be full, so why not add the previous trainset to reduce overcrowding?

Or is this all about XC not telling us the full story, and their failures are actually even more than they're letting on?

 

[AlterEgo]

Here's another question. XC have publicly announced that the cancellation is due to driver shortage, but this suggests that the train could still go if it had a driver.
Now, surely the trainset will be in the wrong place, so why not couple it to the next service, which then only requires the second driver?
After all, we're expecting the next train to be full, so why not add the previous trainset to reduce overcrowding?
Or is this all about XC not telling us the full story, and their failures are actually even more than they're letting on?

What's the plan with the second unit, which may have to be somewhere different to the first unit at the end of the day to resume Monday service?

 

[dk1]

There is no way I would trust the railway to get me anywhere on a Sunday unless I had no alternative. During the week it's a different prospect though.

It’s not so bad at all here in the Wonderful World of Greater Anglia. Only the essential and well notified engineering blockades get in the way of a very reliable and efficient Sunday timetable.

 

[Shrop]

What's the plan with the second unit, which may have to be somewhere different to the first unit at the end of the day to resume Monday service?

I can't answer that, I can only guess. But ... both trains were heading for Bournemouth, and you might think one unit could be detached at Southampton if necessary.

Meanwhile, we're now on the second train, just 5 coaches and seriously overcrowded, with train manager asking people to try to head the doors early for the next station in order to be able to get through the crush.

He's being as helpful as he can, but in a very difficult situation. He needs a reward, but those in charge need forcing to actually experience what they preside over.

 

[Harpo]

It’s not so bad at all here in the Wonderful World of Greater Anglia. Only the essential and well notified engineering blockades get in the way of a very reliable and efficient Sunday timetable.

As happens with most TOCs serving London.

 

[mrcheek]

As happens with most TOCs serving London.

apart from GWR, which is atrocious on Sundays, and has been for many years

 

[jupiter]

I would never contemplate using the train for anything remotely important now. Brilliant when it's running, hopeless when it starts to fall apart. There's a local National Express which is only a couple of hours to Gatwick or Heathrow. I often try for the train back home again though, although if it's late I know the bus is going to get through.

 

[Farang]

Mrs. Farang also recently experienced disruption while trying to get to Southampton for a cruise. Her train (on a Saturday) was first delayed leaving Waterloo, then terminated early so she and friend had to lug their wheelies onto the next train. Embarkation deadline 3:00pm, they arrived 3:10 but v. fortunately were allowed on. By some quirk, SWR gave her more in Delay Repay than she'd shelled out on the tickets. In our experience, DR is by far the most reliable aspect of railway travel.

 

[swt_passenger]

I can't answer that, I can only guess. But ... both trains were heading for Bournemouth, and you might think one unit could be detached at Southampton if necessary.

Detached by a spare XC driver who happens to be in Southampton at the right time?

 

[dk1]

As happens with most TOCs serving London.

Of course. I find TSGN and GWR to be the worst offenders.

 

[Shrop]

Detached by a spare XC driver who happens to be in Southampton at the right time?

I'm not convinced by your willingness to find reasons to excuse XC. Perhaps you should have joined those passengers standing for over 2 hours and then see whether your point of view changes.

Meanwhile, as for your question, if I had all the facts I might be able to give you an answer. My consultancy fees are very competitive

 

[speedy1]

My elderly mother enjoys long distance travel up the ECML/WCML to see family, maintaining independence, but we've had to have a somewhat serious conversation about the increasing risk of getting stranded on a boiling train with no AC for 4 hours, or standing for 2-3 hours on a packed train, or receiving zero support during disruption, and have convinced my family to increase their visits to her instead.

The recent golden age is over. The railway is a mature and asset-intensive industry, and it seems more and more expenditure is just to maintain the current service. It's not a sinking ship but it's becoming very very leaky and less resilient to big crashing waves and is looking rather rusty and tatty.

With an increase in leisure travel on the railways, it's become less politically important to governments. No politician cares if a shopper is delayed 2 hours on a Saturday or a relatively well-off cruise-goer disrupted on a Sunday.

Why? Because good alternative exists and are very popular. Online shopping is huge. Working from home is still an option for many workers. Internet speeds are generally quite good for remote meetings and good technical solutions exist. The more well-off will just pay for a 'transfer' or 'chauffeur'.

The people who still have the nostalgia in their heads of a steam train with just 6 other passengers on board, a guard in a 3-piece suit with a pocket watch personally apologising to each passenger for a delay, arriving at a station with porters helping with luggage etc will continue to remain very very disappointed.

People need to see the railway for what it is and accept the reality. Venting here does nothing - we need to write to our MPs, try to get the attention of the media, and organise political movements.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm not convinced by your willingness to find reasons to excuse XC. Perhaps you should have joined those passengers standing for over 2 hours and then see whether your point of view changes.
Meanwhile, as for your question, if I had all the facts I might be able to give you an answer. My consultancy fees are very competitive

I’m not trying to excuse anyone. It’s already clear from earlier that there’s still a general shortage of traincrew on Sundays, so a spare driver is highly unlikely.

 

[LowLevel]

I'm not convinced by your willingness to find reasons to excuse XC. Perhaps you should have joined those passengers standing for over 2 hours and then see whether your point of view changes.
Meanwhile, as for your question, if I had all the facts I might be able to give you an answer. My consultancy fees are very competitive

Ultimately if you're going to propose a solution and someone tells you it's unworkable, it's up to you to explain why that isn't the case. XC's weekend resourcing issues are well known.

Personally I avoid using the train to Southampton for cruises wherever possible. It's a nightmare dragging your luggage around changing trains etc.

Cruise parking services at that port are excellent and it takes a good 2 hours less to drive from the East Mids than dragging myself around London or Birmingham making connections.

It's a market that the TOC doesn't care about. Cruise passengers bring huge amounts of luggage and their trains aren't and won't be set up for it.

A shame because it should be better, but it isn't.

 

[Ianigsy]

My mother reached this stage about 20 years ago, when she should have been about 60. Having an arthritic back and knees, she was limited in what she could carry, as my father would have to carry her clothes as well as his own, so her rule was that she would travel anywhere that had a direct train from Liverpool. They went to some interesting places like Winchester and Ely, but they started to change to coach firms for longer holidays.

 

[rmHawk765]

Of course. I find TSGN and GWR to be the worst offenders.

TSGN is an extremely mixed bag. GN doesn't really have acceptable frequencies in London suburbs but this is basically standard for them post-COVID, not just on Sundays. At least they've been sorting their driver situation out at last. For SN, I'm not sure, I think there's a similar situation there. And as for TL, GTR loves to cancel TL at the slightest whiff of disruption anyway, and it's even worse on a Sunday when there are less trains...

 

[Llandudno]

Sadly I would never trust the rail network to go to airport to catch a plane!

 

[marshlinker]

Not sure if you're aware but nearly every Cruise Ship departing Southampton will have a connecting coach from the North West. In the Birmingham area these pick up at Hilton Park Services on the M6 and the services on Junction 2 of the M42 (sorry cant remember the name). There's also a route down the M1.
Obviously not an easy pick up point to access by train but if you could get someone to drop you off or maybe a Taxi from Wolverhampton its the way to go, takes you direct to the ship.
The coaches are all in communication with Port Control in the event of delays etc.

 

[Snow1964]

I would never contemplate using the train for anything remotely important now. Brilliant when it's running, hopeless when it starts to fall apart. There's a local National Express which is only a couple of hours to Gatwick or Heathrow. I often try for the train back home again though, although if it's late I know the bus is going to get through.

Yes, complete lack of rapid contingency these days

- crews that don't know (or upto date with signing) alternative routes
- track simplification which has removed emergency reversing points
- non standard stock that cannot take alternative routes
- lack of standby trains (sometimes nearest spare is 2+ hours away)
- insufficient spare crew if someone is delayed or goes sick
- over use of do not travel (not once a decade exceptional, it's now multiple days a year)
- too many getting stranded for hours if no road alternative is available
- bad or poor information, because control seems to put keeping passengers informed as low priority during incidents
- automated information systems that haven't got last minute changes so misinform platform numbers, revised destinations, connection locations etc
- little attempt to ensure extra stops on other trains to replace cancelled trains leaving stations unserved for long time.
- negligible attempt to run shuttles if train cannot run small part of route, or running shuttle one end only if problem mid route
- little attempt to hold connections even when low frequency adding 2 or 3 hours to next train.

Basically ever since the (supposedly temporary during Covid) management contracts have continued, been a do as little as possible for passengers attitude (but to be fair the contracts were short term emergency fix, and were not supposed to become new normal for 6-8 years). So DfT continuing the emergency contracts rather than saying back to normal and start serving public (rather than doing what's easy) which should have happened a year or two ago is also a big reason.

 

[Shrop]

Well we made it to the ship on the next train. 1h3m late so roll on Delay Repay! Which makes the train trip a whole lot cheaper than driving and parking, or taking the coach!
A bit hand to mouth for the journey though - such a shame the railways aren't more reliable.

 

[Sonic1234]

People need to see the railway for what it is and accept the reality.

People don't believe it's worth the money. This thread confirms the "normie" view on rail travel, expensive and unreliable. The railway seems happy with it's niches - London, long distance for those that don't want to drive and suburban travel and it can barely fulfill the 5% of journeys it provides.

I've never found the trains too bad for reliability until recently. Expensive - can be. I rarely see anyone travelling without a railcard, admittedly I'm not a commuter.

For SN, I'm not sure, I think there's a similar situation there.

Much better since Crystal Palace - Victoria went back to 4tph. Gets overcrowded on weekends when they use 4-coach trains rather than 8- or 10-coaches.

 

[gazthomas]

I regularly travel to Heathrow from North Wales. Regardless of my flight time I'll always stay over the night before, that's how much I don't trust the railway