Why people don't travel by train...

[Segedunum]

At least it gives those with knowledge the info on getting a better seat.
Still I find it disappointing the 802 -> 185 downgrade even had to be made (especially when there's now no longer the OLE's power behind the train).
Did everyone make it back on or were any left behind?

A bike and a couple with a lot of luggage were left on the platform.

The train had most seats taken already by the time I got to it - security on the platform basically said to find what I could in the back carriage, as that was my lot. I'd say that maybe 10 seats were left before you even got around to packing a hundred or so off the 802 on board.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

A bike and a couple with a lot of luggage were left on the platform.

At least (Assuming non-advanced tickets) there's decent substitute trains except for Chester-le-Street.
- Northallerton - LNER - 8 mins behind
- Darlington - XC - 4 minutes behind the 185
- Durham - XC - expected 3 mins behind (but the 185 is in platform 2)
- Chester-le-Street - TPE - expected 1 hour 50 minutes later
- Newcastle - XC - expected same time as 185 (likely will be held back by the 185)

 

[Butts]

Travelling from Scotland it is far quicker and often cheaper to Fly down to England.

Also you can book much further in advance than you can on a Train and not have to worry about potential strikes disrupting your travel arrangements.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Travelling from Scotland it is far quicker and often cheaper to Fly down to England.

Also you can book much further in advance than you can on a Train and not have to worry about potential strikes disrupting your travel arrangements.

You don't often get airline strikes, but air traffic control strikes do disrupt flights from time to time, and they're generally less punctual than trains.

 

[Butts]

You don't often get airline strikes, but air traffic control strikes do disrupt flights from time to time, and they're generally less punctual than trains.

This Morning I flew down from Edinburgh to London City for the princely sum of £50.

I had a better hot breakfast in the Lounge at EDI than you would get on a Train - the big plus being it is self-service.

I also had an Orange Juice and a couple of Cappuccino's rounded off with a Double Talisker and three bits of Tablet.

On the Embraer I was in an Exit Seat and offered a Coffee and packet of crisps in ET.

As for the journey just under an hour !!

 

[75A]

This Morning I flew down from Edinburgh to London City for the princely sum of £50.

I had a better hot breakfast in the Lounge at EDI than you would get on a Train - the big plus being it is self-service.

I also had an Orange Juice and a couple of Cappuccino's rounded off with a Double Talisker and three bits of Tablet.

On the Embraer I was in an Exit Seat and offered a Coffee and packet of crisps in ET.

As for the journey just under an hour !!

That's a complete no brainer.

When I was working I had to go to Belfast for a day a month & then Edinburgh the next, I'd drive the 25 minutes to Birmingham Airport I was met @ both Airports and it couldn't have been simpler. Trains just can't compete with that sort of speed & simplicity.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's a complete no brainer.

When I was working I had to go to Belfast for a day a month & then Edinburgh the next, I'd drive the 25 minutes to Birmingham Airport I was met @ both Airports and it couldn't have been simpler. Trains just can't compete with that sort of speed & simplicity.

Trains can quite easily compete for Edinburgh to London, in particular because it's possible to work on the way unlike the bitty nature of time on a flight.

 

[75A]

Trains can quite easily compete for Edinburgh to London, in particular because it's possible to work on the way unlike the bitty nature of time on a flight.

Rather depends on what job you do and if you happen to live in London.
I lived 25 minutes from Birmingham International and there's no train service remotely useful for a 10 am meeting in Edingburgh, let alone Belfast.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I lived 25 minutes from Birmingham International and there's no train service remotely useful for a 10 am meeting in Edingburgh

Yes, I'd agree the "via Birmingham" WCML Scotland services don't start early enough, there needs to be an 05something off Euston. Or Caledonian Sleeper need to actually implement the once-considered plan of adding a stop at New Street.

But if you live near an airport air is generally going to win, that's the nature of the beast. I've weekly commuted to Edinburgh from MK and flying from Luton works out best unless I go Sunday night.

However far more people live near railway stations than major airports, as there are relatively few of them.

let alone Belfast.

If there's sea in the way air is pretty much always going to win because trains aren't very good at floating.

 

[AndrewE]

another (set of) good reasons...

‘No one knew anything’: rail passenger’s 11-hour London to Edinburgh odyssey

Comedian James Nokise tweets long train and taxi journey after track fault that also stranded school group

www.theguardian.com

‘No one knew anything’: rail passenger’s 11-hour London to Edinburgh odyssey​

​

There are many ways to cope with a rail journey from hell. Some raid the onboard shop for mini bottles of wine; others forge new friendships amid the misery. The really unlucky ones end up urinating in empty Pringles pots, or climbing over 2-metre high fences (complete with spikes) when they arrive so late that the station has been closed.

But when the comedian James Nokise found himself on an 11-hour odyssey between London and Edinburgh on Monday night, he live-tweeted the misery.


Twitter may have gone out of fashion since Musk’s meddling, but it remains the perfect medium for a short story full of intrigue that takes in 11th-hour cancellations, hundreds of passengers competing for taxis, and a directionally challenged cab driver jacked up on Red Bull apparently driving from Preston to Edinburgh for the first time.

Nokise took the 4.40pm Avanti West Coast service from London Euston to Edinburgh, expecting to arrive at 22.21. All was well until the Pendolino was approaching Preston and Nokise received an email telling him his train – the one he was sitting in – had been cancelled. And so began his masterclass in social media storytelling...

etc. Also a school party on board, where of course the children couldn't be packed off in different taxis because of obvious safeguarding issues. Who cares? Not avanti.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Yes, I'd agree the "via Birmingham" WCML Scotland services don't start early enough, there needs to be an 05something off Euston.

The first two Avanti services to Scotland start at New St; the first Edinburgh leaves there at 06.05. Obviously no use from London, but there is a service from International that connects into it.

 

[Butts]

Trains can quite easily compete for Edinburgh to London, in particular because it's possible to work on the way unlike the bitty nature of time on a flight.

You can work in the lounge in Edinburgh and enjoy decent food and drinks gratis !!

 

[Failed Unit]

You can work in the lounge in Edinburgh and enjoy decent food and drinks gratis !!

I guess we often get into the train versus plane debate, but it is generally cheaper. The other thing is that you often don't know what is possible to do by rail at weekends in particular until 2-3 weeks before the date you want to travel. If I have an event I need to attend you have the gamble. £50 on Lazy jet or wait to see if it is possible to go by train. By the time the rail system opens Lazy jet is now £150 and they trians are actually replacement busses. So I tend to fly as I am more certain it will run.

I don't fly to London City in the Autumn/ Winter because of frequent long delays because of visitility - but that is the worse implacted airport for that. My other rule is avoid BA as the London - Scotland are the first flight to be cancelled if any air traffic restrictions exist.

 

[Kite159]

I guess we often get into the train versus plane debate, but it is generally cheaper. The other thing is that you often don't know what is possible to do by rail at weekends in particular until 2-3 weeks before the date you want to travel. If I have an event I need to attend you have the gamble. £50 on Lazy jet or wait to see if it is possible to go by train. By the time the rail system opens Lazy jet is now £150 and they trians are actually replacement busses. So I tend to fly as I am more certain it will run.

I don't fly to London City in the Autumn/ Winter because of frequent long delays because of visitility - but that is the worse implacted airport for that. My other rule is avoid BA as the London - Scotland are the first flight to be cancelled if any air traffic restrictions exist.

Although these days its less engineering works more the risk of strikes on the railway throwing a large spanner into the works

 

[Starmill]

That said people who are really fussy about forward facing seats and attentive levels of First Class service are always going to be difficult to satisfy!

To be fair to them if you've paid the kind of money that first class Advance tickets from Edinburgh to Birmingham International on Avanti West Coast generally cost, you'd expect seat preference and dining service to be all but perfect.

I'd advise anyone in that situation to book a Standard ticket, bring a picnic, and take the risk of sitting in Standard Premium, paying the upgrade onboard. Unfortunately not every service has Standard Premium so that won't work every time.

 

[Failed Unit]

Although these days its less engineering works more the risk of strikes on the railway throwing a large spanner into the works

Very true, it is interesting now when planning journeys as someone that uses this site is more likely to be pro-railway anyway. I tend to drive if my journey would involve Avanti or Transpennie express. I can't believe that I am using Northern to cross the pennies. For a normal passenger they probably have just given up. Saturdays on GTR also used to be a lottery (may still be come December)

 

[Russel]

All of the above, plus the risk of being treated like a criminal for a minor ticketing issue, such as boarding the wrong train with an advance...

 

[AndrewE]

and for people who think the "Why people DO travel by train" thread is more important, I suggest you look at RTT for somewhere on the WCML this afternoon... An absolute shambles, made worse for people travelling early to try to get ahead of tomorrow's strike.
I love travelling by train, but sadly almost every time I persuade people to come out with me the service collapses... cue red face and embarrassment. I have given up now.

The official excuse (today) is "A fault with the signalling system between Oxenholme Lake District and Penrith North Lakes means all lines are disrupted. Trains may be cancelled, severely delayed by up to 60 minutes or revised."
Can they really not adapt by putting a pilotman in between the two stations? A Stop-to-pass time of 23 minutes suggests that you could get an hourly train in each direction even if you pretended it was a single line section.

 

[Russel]

and for people who think the "Why people DO travel by train" thread is more important, I suggest you look at RTT for somewhere on the WCML this afternoon... An absolute shambles, made worse for people travelling early to try to get ahead of tomorrow's strike.
I love travelling by train, but sadly almost every time I persuade people to come out with me the service collapses... cue red face and embarrassment. I have given up now.

The official excuse (today) is "A fault with the signalling system between Oxenholme Lake District and Penrith North Lakes means all lines are disrupted. Trains may be cancelled, severely delayed by up to 60 minutes or revised."
Can they really not adapt by putting a pilotman in between the two stations? A Stop-to-pass time of 23 minutes suggests that you could get an hourly train in each direction even if you pretended it was a single line section.

Yeah, I get exactly what you're saying, almost every time I convince my partner that we will use the train over the car, something happens, either the service falls apart, we end up surrounded by drunks or we have to stand for the whole journey, to add to the insult, the train has usually cost me more that if we had used the car.

The WCML has fell apart at least once a week recently and it appears to generally be some kind of equipment failure north of Preston.

I was almost stranded at Penrith one evening in August, I'm really starting to consider not using the railway any more for long distance journeys, which is a real shame.

 

[Halwynd]

I'm afraid I've given up on the railway...

Poor reliability, strikes, cancellations, a hostile ticketing environment for passengers when mistakes or problems occur, and then uncomfortable journeys as a result of overly-busy trains, uncomfortable seating and often poor onboard toilet availabilty - all making the price of the tickets that I used to buy very poor value for money.

I walk a lot, but my unwalkable local journeys are now made by bus (which, after a few weeks of use, has been 100% punctual and reliable) and anything longer distance is now by car.

I'd really like to use the train and I'm sad to see the way the railway is going, but I've had enough.

 

[njamescouk]

once you've bought a car it's game over for the train.

saw a thread in which a rail employee was saying, re yellow line on platform, "if you don't want to get shouted at, don't cross the line"! no one with any self respect is going to pay through the nose for that sort of treatment.

 

[Russel]

saw a thread in which a rail employee was saying, re yellow line on platform, "if you don't want to get shouted at, don't cross the line"! no one with any self respect is going to pay through the nose for that sort of treatment.

All industries have jobsworths, the rail industry just seems to attract a lot more than most.

 

[uglymonkey]

I don't think a lot of them shout and scream at the public on a regular basis though.

 

[317 forever]

There is the risk of strikes and engineering works. I had the admittedly rare experience this time last year of a 3 hour delay and my Delay Repay claim declined, even on appeal.

Another drawback is that we sometimes get quiet trains formed of 2 multiple units and busy trains on the same routes formed by single units, making it hard to guarantee a seat.

 

[uglymonkey]

Another minor point, last weekend my son went and brought his first car, he is very happy with it. One of the many reasons he got it is to get to work on strike days and when the service is so unreliable. Another passenger ( sorry customer) lost to rail.

 

[Ianigsy]

Consider the following experience which happened to me three weeks ago:

I was travelling from Kings Cross to Leeds with an LNER standard advance on a service formed of 2x5 car Azumas and a reservation in Coach F. On boarding at Kings Cross, I noticed that Coach E was against the buffer stops and was expecting F to be next to it, however it turned out to be qt the opposite end, so from the front the coaches were F-G-H-K-M-A-B-C-D-E.

Along with everybody else with reservations in Coach F, I took my seat only for the reservation displays to be switched off a minute or two before departure and then back on again with the coach now Coach A, followed by the psssengers from the original Coach A demanding their seats. There was no announcement in the front set and no time for those of us in Coach F to claim our seats in the rear set, so I and several others ended up standing as far as Stevenage.

Unfortunately those LNER staff in the front unit didn’t exactly cover themselves in glory - comments included “I don’t make the trains” and (from the Customer Experience Leader no less) “I’m not getting into an argument “. To add insult to injury, LNER refused my claim under the Seat Guarantee, on the grounds that I was eventually able to claim my booked seat at Stevenage, entirely on my own initiative and with no thanks to their crew!

 

[AndrewE]

See

!

 

[Bletchleyite]

once you've bought a car it's game over for the train.

The large, busy car parks at South East commuter stations in particular would like to differ.

 

[Russel]

I don't think a lot of them shout and scream at the public on a regular basis though.

You don't use Crewe or Eustom on a regular basis, do you...

 

[Joe Paxton]

The large, busy car parks at South East commuter stations in particular would like to differ.

Though many do seem somewhat less busy than they were, pre-pandemic.