Why no ticket gates at Doncaster?

[Harlesden]

Just wondered.

 

[JonathanH]

Just wondered.

Two sets of stairs from the subway and possibly not quite enough space at the top of either in the booking hall. However, you could potentially put in a gateline downstairs between the stairs to the booking hall and those to platforms 1-3.

Previously discussed here http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=119737

 

[Harpers Tate]

They have on occasion been known to temporarily barrier in the subway between the concourse stairs and the first platform staircases.

 

[Starmill]

If they fit in gates at Stockport...

 

[brompton rail]

The subway is the only location where all passengers can be checked.

Barriers at the top of both staircases would not cover the lift to/ from the subway. Even by directing arrival passengers to use the north stairs (to Wh Smiths) where there is some room to avoid passengers queuing up the stairs (as done on race days) the space is very limited. Then departing passengers would need to be checked at the south stairs, and this would require Travel Centre / Booking Office users to use a different entrance (currently locked) to the Travel Centre. Two sets of staff would be required too.

In the subway space is very limited and I doubt that there is space for more than one outbound normal barrier, one inbound normal barrier and one wide gate (for both directions). At busy times the subway would be well filled and passengers queuing down stairs from platforms.

All in all, not an easy answer, and it is likely that many of those passengers caught without tickets would be short distance riders on Northern Trains where the Conductor was unable to sell tickets to all.... VTEC run the station, their passengers could be checked on the train before Doncaster.

 

[lineclear]

All in all, not an easy answer, and it is likely that many of those passengers caught without tickets would be short distance riders on Northern Trains where the Conductor was unable to sell tickets to all.... VTEC run the station, their passengers could be checked on the train before Doncaster.

Doncaster is a hotspot for fare evasion on VTEC trains as well. I have been told that, several years ago, two guards were rostered on some services between York and Donny to sell tickets to people who were hoping for a free ride.

 

[brompton rail]

Doncaster is a hotspot for fare evasion on VTEC trains as well. I have been told that, several years ago, two guards were rostered on some services between York and Donny to sell tickets to people who were hoping for a free ride.

Indeed. About ten years ago I used to catch the first East Coast train from Doncaster to Leeds - about 0750. A ticket inspector joined at Doncaster and it was common for him to collect over £200 in ticket sales in the front two coaches alone between Doncaster and Leeds. Leeds station, of course, still had barriers but were manual then, and the side gate from platform 8 was often in use.

From time to time now I travel Doncaster to York on 08.10 service, returning an hour or so later, and it is rare to experience any ticket chech on VTEC, but rare not to be checked on XC.

 

[JonathanH]

Is there really less space at Doncaster

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/NRE_DON/images/photos/800/o1707-0000775.jpg

than there is at Shrewsbury

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/NRE_SHR/images/photos/800/o3016-0009488.jpg

How far clear of stairs do you need to be?

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/NRE_WGC/images/photos/800/o3369-0000028.jpg

 

[trentside]

Doncaster is a hotspot for fare evasion on VTEC trains as well. I have been told that, several years ago, two guards were rostered on some services between York and Donny to sell tickets to people who were hoping for a free ride.

Doncaster is a place where you can pretty much guarantee that you'll sell tickets onboard after leaving, so I'd imagine it's tricky for VTEC guards. On occasions they'll be people who've travelled in from smaller stations, and who haven't yet been given an opportunity to purchase a ticket - it's amazing how many tickets I've sold from Thorne Stations later on in the evening, despite me not signing either station!

On the whole, most of the ones I get are "pay when challenged", hoping that we wouldn't be doing a check after a staffed station.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Just wondered.

Maybe because they're a massive over-reaction to the minor problem of fare dodging and VTEC would rather provide a pleasant and welcoming environment for customers instead of treating them all as potential criminals?

 

[Starmill]

Maybe because they're a massive over-reaction to the minor problem of fare dodging and VTEC would rather provide a pleasant and welcoming environment for customers instead of treating them all as potential criminals?

Just like at Peterborlugh, Grantham, Darlington, Durham and Newcastle

 

[yorkie]

Just like at Peterborlugh, Grantham, Darlington, Durham and Newcastle

DfT decides :P

 

[Senex]

Maybe because they're a massive over-reaction to the minor problem of fare dodging and VTEC would rather provide a pleasant and welcoming environment for customers instead of treating them all as potential criminals?

Isn't the whole British approach to ticketing and ticket-control based on treating all customers as potential criminals?

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Just like at Peterborlugh, Grantham, Darlington, Durham and Newcastle

But not Doncaster or York. Clearly VTEC have worked out that unlike Southerners and Geordies, Yorkshire folk are honest, decent and trustworthy.

 

[lincolnshire]

But not Doncaster or York. Clearly VTEC have worked out that unlike Southerners and Geordies, Yorkshire folk are honest, decent and trustworthy.

I will agree with you there we most be good in this area.

Also if they did put barriers in they would need more station staff to man them as well or again they will end up been left open like at some stations because they don,t have enough staff.

My self I think if that more than one TOC uses the station then unless the station is run by Network Rail barriers should not be allowed.

Also what would all the trainspotters do ? they would be up in arms about it.

 

[WestRiding]

Ticket gates run by VTEC are pointless, if used the same way as just up the line at Wakefield Westgate, which always seem to be open anyway, even yesterday at 17.30 rush. And 21.00 yesterday too. Just what is the point. Mind you, the booking office windows were all shut at 21.00 too.

 

[lincolnshire]

Another Question is who is paying for them all to be installed then? as said above post why put them in and leave them open at peak times even, not enough staff to man them?

York City Council would,t give them planning permission to install them as it block a recognised route to the National Railway Museum via the footbridge.

 

[6Gman]

Another Question is who is paying for them all to be installed then? as said above post why put them in and leave them open at peak times even, not enough staff to man them?

In the old days (pre "Open Stations") Crewe had two little back-to-back huts each containing a single ticket examiner. Late at night one would be closed off reducing staffing to one.

It worked.

Then we had Open Stations.

Now we have barriers, which seem to need at least 3 staff (on one occasion I noticed 7 there !) who spend rather too much time talking to each other rather than watching the barriers ... or passengers. Oh, and they're rarely manned at all after 18.00 ...

 

[syorksdeano]

I might be wrong but didn't Doncaster once trial ticket barriers?

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[lincolnshire]

I might be wrong but didn't Doncaster once trial ticket barriers?

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Back in the old days they had ticket snappers and only one entrance down the subway in them days. But never remember barriers of the style today.