As a frequent cross country walker, with and without dog, I have noticed that trains approaching footpath crossings - this is in the Stamford area on the Leicester to Peterborough line - often only give a 1 tone whistle instead of a 2 or 3 tone whistle. I find that when they are approaching the crossing I am about to cross I can easily tell that it is a train, but when they are further away and whistling at some other crossing, it's hard to tell whether it's a train, or a lorry on the nearby A1. Is it just driver preference or is there some policy? I always though the whole point of multi tones was to differentiate from road vehicles.
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Why no 2-tone?
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starrymarkb
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Standard is now Single Tone for Noise Abatement Reasons 
YorkshireBear
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Standard is now Single Tone for Noise Abatement Reasons
Interesting that near roads this could reduce safety for foot crossing.... All just for the tiniest bit of noise reduction.
I can't really see the logic, the various tones all seem to be as loud as each other, and presumably the single tone can be made to last for as short or as long a time as a 2 tone. Perhaps the single tone is preferred because it is less noticable as it blends in with the more commonly heard road vehicle horns, although to me that seems like a disadvantage. Strange.
causton
Established Member
Indeed.
A single horn could be a car nearby. A two tone horn is pretty distinctively a train!
If your train horn can possibly be mistaken for a car horn then the train horn is too weak and unfit for purpose!
If it's worth having as a safety device (rather than just for bling) a train horn needs to be comfortably louder than anything else in the area other than the siren on an emergency services vehicle. That includes car horns, the heavier truck horns, flange squeal on the rails and the mighty roar of three 3000+ kW diesel freight locos hauling a 1800m freighter up a 1/40 grade (possibly combined with flange squeal).
People living nearby will get used to it so quickly they won't notice it all, it only took me a couple of weeks to forget all about the noise from the steep line down the street from my current house. That's despite the engine noise of a triple-headed freighter being audible over 8 kilometres away with two hills between on a still evening!
If it's worth having as a safety device (rather than just for bling) a train horn needs to be comfortably louder than anything else in the area other than the siren on an emergency services vehicle. That includes car horns, the heavier truck horns, flange squeal on the rails and the mighty roar of three 3000+ kW diesel freight locos hauling a 1800m freighter up a 1/40 grade (possibly combined with flange squeal).
People living nearby will get used to it so quickly they won't notice it all, it only took me a couple of weeks to forget all about the noise from the steep line down the street from my current house. That's despite the engine noise of a triple-headed freighter being audible over 8 kilometres away with two hills between on a still evening!
You can blame the jobsworths for that, it is now mandatory that a driver only used one blast of the low tone horn at a whistle board, if I see any near the crossing I will blast them with both.
ANorthernGuard
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Reminds of a few people in Hathersage who kept taking down the Whistle Board on the up about 150 meters away from the station. The idiots who did that could have cost someones life if a driver had a lapse of concentration. if you don't like noise don't live near a railway line! It really is that simple.
Never get a single or two tone these days on the two Lcs (both bridleways) further along near Oakham at Gunthorpe and Eggleton crossings, even when stood by the gate waiting with the dog. Always acknowledge so the driver is aware I am aware of the train though if that makes sense. Maybe the residents of Eggleton have complained
However along the Wreake valley to Syston from Melton, two tone is in use and could be clearly heard today as the trains progress along the valley past Asfordby and Frisby while working by the Dalby test track at Saxilbye, as was the case last week and on previous visits there and will be forever in my memory studying and living for 3 years at Brooksby in 1980 with double headed 25s and 31s plying their trade Memories
However along the Wreake valley to Syston from Melton, two tone is in use and could be clearly heard today as the trains progress along the valley past Asfordby and Frisby while working by the Dalby test track at Saxilbye, as was the case last week and on previous visits there and will be forever in my memory studying and living for 3 years at Brooksby in 1980 with double headed 25s and 31s plying their trade Memories
dk1
Veteran Member
I do two-tone and don't care what my manager says. Totally disagree with current instruction. Too many people with too little to do in my humble opinion.
Silv1983
Member
Like many above, I refuse to put the comfort of Mrs Jones ears as she tries to read the daily mail, above the life of crossing users. Always a two tone blast, albeit a the mandatory low tone with a pap of the high!
Ask anybody (child or adult) what noise a train horn is and they will imitate the 2 tone, a single tone (although loud) might not get through the earphones as well as a 2 tone does and I am not going to be skittling anyone over just because some berk that bought a house near a foot crossing has complained about the noise of the trains, you know those same trains that meant he got his £350k home for £300k.
2 tone every time for me.
2 tone every time for me.
RPM
Established Member
I go with the low tone only rule, but compensate by giving it a very long blast. In so doing I maintain safety & comply with the rule book, whilst simultaneously continuing to annoy the noise abatement NIMBYS. A plan with no drawbacks
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TheJRB
Established Member
Living close enough to a whistle board on the Marshlink line, I have noticed that Southern trains usually use a single tone while the Dungeness flask trains almost always use a two-tone.
martybabes
Member
If, as it seems, it is the drivers' view that the single tone is not sufficient to warn of their approach - and the two-tone is still used despite what the rule-book says - what process is in place, or can be pursued, to change the rule-book and re-implement the sanctioned use of the two-tone?
We don't want to wait for there to be a death or serious injury before its use is questioned.
We don't want to wait for there to be a death or serious injury before its use is questioned.
Gwenllian2001
Member
All of this talk about tones has reminded me of the early days of DMU working in the Cardiff Valleys Division. Up trains used High/Low and Down trains Low/High. Did this sort of thing happen elsewhere?
Well if a driver wishes to use 2 tones they can, they won't be disciplined for it. The rule book also states that the horn may be sounded whenever deemed necessary so that is a loophole for any drivers using both tones.
When the horn rules were relaxed entering a tunnel a 15 year old was killed 4 days later, Okay he was in the tunnel carrying out graffiti of his tag but if the horn had been sounded would he have been killed? Unfortunately the rules were changed due to complaints about noise pollution from residents. If the rules quote use a single tone only then a driver will usually obey the rules.
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I totally disagree with the rules when it comes to using only a single tone but it all depends on what your manager is like when it comes to obeying the rules in the rule book. All it takes is yet another jobsworth to report that trains are using 2 tones and then it won't take long before a manager be it TOC or NR to visit a site and then note who is using the 2 tone.
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Is that what your DI taught you to do?
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Once again that is debateable, there are many managers out there and many jobworth managers not even from the driving grade who would relish in contacting their peers to report a driver. Single tone all the way as that is what it says in the rule book. Not that I agree with it as I don't agree with the 70mph speed limit on a motorway but to protect myself from any chance of being pulled into the office I will abide to what I am supposed to do.
All units record on the OTDR if the horn is sounded and also if the high or low tone is used.
O L Leigh
Established Member
Yeah, but at every single crossing...? On every single trip...?
O L Leigh
O L Leigh
True but they'd have to bother downloading every trip to prove that.
I know people who have been challenged by managers in ride outs and the managers seem happy that as long as you know what the rules are and are on the side of safety (which 2 tone is) then they are happy for you to sound both tones.
I would seriously suggest that no one ever has been or will be disciplined for always using 2 tones. I can't see how it could be done and I see no reason not to use both tones.
heart-of-wessex
Established Member
There is a section on the Kent Coast that is one tone only permitted, due to local resident compaints though, from the cab, it looks like a rather sparse area, and I think this was mentioned too!
It's on Video 125's 'Kent Coast' Drivers Eye View. It also says that, despite only the low tone being used, it does have a better sound range I.E you can hear it more clearly than the high tone. I suppose that's right, low tones do seem to spread out more I've noticed
It's on Video 125's 'Kent Coast' Drivers Eye View. It also says that, despite only the low tone being used, it does have a better sound range I.E you can hear it more clearly than the high tone. I suppose that's right, low tones do seem to spread out more I've noticed
asylumxl
Established Member
Lower frequencies are more omnidirectional than high frequencies, so it makes perfect sense
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heart-of-wessex
Established Member
Lower frequencies are more omnidirectional than high frequencies, so it makes perfect sense
Ahh, I suppose like why fog horns are so low.
How does this low tone only work with Class 20's I wonder? They only seem to have 'high' or 'very high'!
!I'm sure an MPV isn't an issue though, that probably has 20 different low tone notes!
It's the entire rail network that is one tone only. Not just the kent coast. Still on that line in kent the driver could use both tones if they felt in necessary.
Low tones will travel further-if you can hear you neighbours music through the wall or a distant outdoor concert you will hear the low frequencies rather than the top end. Low frequencies are more powerful so travel further.
As for train horns though there often isn't much difference between tones. The idea of one time only is to reduce the amount of nose. Obviously slightly flawed as you can still hold the low tone on for longer than you would sound both tones.
Hairy Bear
Member
Often force of habit after 20+ years of doing it.
As a driver do not agree with single note use.
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