Why is this ticket not valid on the 1040 Avanti

[yorkie]

The list of colour-coded routes and Train Operators looks pretty clear to me! The passenger obviously knew that they could travel as far as Birmingham with their card, so had some knowledge at least of its validity. I fully agree that the railway is not always as helpful as it could be, but there has to be, surely, some degree of responsibility on the passenger as well?

Which other industries expect their customers to know more than the staff who form the contracts with the customers?

 

[Falcon1200]

Which other industries expect their customers to know more than the staff who form the contracts with the customers?

A fair point perhaps when all railway staff worked for one organisation, but which industries expect their staff to know everything about the operations of other companies for whom they do not work and with which they have no dealings?

 

[crablab]

but which industries expect their staff to know everything about the operations of other companies for whom they do not work and with which they have no dealings?

I still don't see why this is of any concern to the passenger who just wants to be sold the most appropriate ticket.

Perhaps operators shouldn't be selling tickets on behalf of others, and we can get rid of inter-available tickets, if it's "too complicated" for the industry? /s

 

[AlterEgo]

A fair point perhaps when all railway staff worked for one organisation, but which industries expect their staff to know everything about the operations of other companies for whom they do not work and with which they have no dealings?

How hard is it to look at a public website or Knowledgebase?

 

[Tetchytyke]

The list of colour-coded routes and Train Operators looks pretty clear to me!

The fact the railcard is valid as far as Stafford is very clear. The bit that isn't clear is that it is only valid on LNR and not on Avanti. For that you have to look at the key and twig that LNR is not Avanti and that the absence of Avanti means it's not valid with them.

That's a lot of mental gymnastics compared to, say, a sentence on the National Rail website under the section 'where can I use my annual gold card' which states NOT VALID ON AVANTI OR LNER.

And that's before we consider this little gem:

Image shows extract from the Annual Gold Card map.

The text box saying "gold card is valid on all National Rail services within this area" is placed across both the white area (outside the London zones) and the yellow area (inside the London zones). So which one does it apply to? And how do you know unless you know?

In trying to defend this, one can only presume you are borderline trolling tbh.

Of course, if the map is so clear then that rather undermines your other point. If the communication is so completely clear, why didn't the staff member know?

 

[signed]

That doesn't dispute the fact the railway is customer-hostile, but surely, you could solve that with a TIS warning with the appropriate information for the clerk.

 

[sprunt]

As someone who sells train tickets on board trains am I going to expected to go over the T&Cs of every railcard discounted ticket with the purchaser each time to make sure they understand them and that there's no hidden pitfalls?

No, but presumably the tickets you're selling on board are for the journey the passenger is currently making, and therefore whether or not it's valid for the journey it's being bought for will be immediately apparent. (I'm not aware of any on-train staff who sell tickets for future journeys, but I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong.)

Not the only example of TOC names being out of date on passenger information. This one from West Yorkshire Metro advises that combinations of its tickets and passes with other rail tickets cannot be used on 'services operated by CrossCountry, East Midlands Trains, Virgin Trains or Virgin Trains East Coast'

https://www.westyorks-ca.gov.uk/media/5010/1910-cross-boundary-leaflet-22318-final.pdf

Oh, come on, surely it's not asking too much for the passenger to do a little light research into the history of TOC naming since privatisation. Do we really need to spoonfeed people with such trivialities as the correct information?

 

[Wallsendmag]

No, but presumably the tickets you're selling on board are for the journey the passenger is currently making, and therefore whether or not it's valid for the journey it's being bought for will be immediately apparent. (I'm not aware of any on-train staff who sell tickets for future journeys, but I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong.)

What about the return leg of an open ticket?

 

[sprunt]

What about the return leg of an open ticket?

Then yes, if the use of a railcard introduced time restrictions beyond the regular Anytime/Off-Peak restrictions I'd expect the person selling the ticket to mention that. It's hardly a deep dive into the T&C's, and it's something I'd expect the person selling the ticket to be well aware of as they'd presumably have to look out for it when checking tickets.

 

[LowLevel]

No, but presumably the tickets you're selling on board are for the journey the passenger is currently making, and therefore whether or not it's valid for the journey it's being bought for will be immediately apparent. (I'm not aware of any on-train staff who sell tickets for future journeys, but I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong.)

I sell loads of return tickets though, whereby intentions for a return journey might not so obvious.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I sell loads of return tickets though, whereby intentions for a return journey might not so obvious.

Though if you were doing so for a ticket that would due to the Railcard lack return validity, it would certainly be something to point out, particularly if the ticket is an Anytime.

 

[LowLevel]

Though if you were doing so for a ticket that would due to the Railcard lack return validity, it would certainly be something to point out, particularly if the ticket is an Anytime.

Happily (in terms of being less complicated for me!) for the most part I think "period return" tickets where this might apply have more or less exceeded the cost margin in my area where this might be the case. Certainly years ago though where they hadn't I'd have never thought to apply a minimum fare to a period return I was flogging after 10am.

 

[Falcon1200]

one can only presume you are borderline trolling tbh.

I was going to reply to some of the perfectly reasonable points made here, agreeing with some and presenting a different point of views to others. But if you are going to respond like this I will not waste any more of my, or your, time.

 

[nanstallon]

All this nonsense is just what many feared would happened when the then Tory government was getting ready for the privatisation of the railways by creating all these franchises. I seem to recall that we were then assured that travellers wouldn't get hassled for riding on different companies' trains. What would have been wrong with just having 'British Rail plc'?

 

[JonathanH]

I seem to recall that we were then assured that travellers wouldn't get hassled for riding on different companies' trains. What would have been wrong with just having 'British Rail plc'?

No different to tickets being available on Network South East but not Intercity in British Rail days, which certainly did happen.

 

[RJ]

How hard is it to look at a public website or Knowledgebase?

Carrying out research is a skill. You have to know where the information is, how to find it and how to interpret it, then interpret it in the most favourable way for the passenger. People have differing levels of aptitude for this and that will never change.