Why is the s stock slow

[Dstock7080]

I bet it will happen in sections as is/was the case on the Northern and Jubilee lines. I expect the closer to Central London to go ATO first with manual driving taking place beyond say Wembley Park or Harrow on the Hill.

For the purposes of ATO the whole of the SSR is divided into 12 "migration areas", each area being fully fitted with no manual driving once the area has been commissioned.
1/ Rayners Lane - Uxbridge
2/ Moor Park > all north
3/ Moor Park/West Harrow - Preston Road
4/ Preston Road - Finchley Road
5/ Hammersmith - Kings Cross
6/ Kings Cross - Embankment via Aldgate
7/ Embankment - Paddington via High Street
8/ Aldgate East - Barking
9/ Barking - Upminster
10/ Earls Court - Wimbledon
11/ Earls Court - Richmond/Chiswick Park *
12/ Chiswick Park - Ealing Broadway/Northfields/Rayners Lane *

('73 Stock to operate in ATP manual driving)

 

[Zoe]

Which area will cover Finchley Road to Baker Street?

 

[Mojo]

10/ Earls Court - Wimbledon
11/ Earls Court - Richmond/Chiswick Park *

Will the Network Rail signalled areas (Putney - Wimbledon and the Richmond branch) still be driven manually with Network Rail trackside signalling?

Also, will Chiltern's trains be fitted with in-cab equipment for their area of joint running over the Met?

 

[Dstock7080]

Which area will cover Finchley Road to Baker Street?

The 'Neasden area' 4/ will cover to St Johns Wood. The 'Hammersmith area' 5/ will cover Baker Street station.

Will the Network Rail signalled areas (Putney - Wimbledon and the Richmond branch) still be driven manually with Network Rail trackside signalling?

The Wimbledon branch will be transferred to LU command & control, (with exception of traction current) signalling with be maximised for LU ATO running with lineside signals placed for use by NR trains.
The Richmond line will remain with NR, existing signals will remain but ATO will be overlaid for LU use.

 

[Daniel]

Also, will Chiltern's trains be fitted with in-cab equipment for their area of joint running over the Met?

My understanding from discussions within LU and with Chiltern staff is that an adaption will be made to their trains' ATP system to allow a permissable speed system to be in operation.

 

[Tubefan2013]

I have only been on the S stock just once when I came down to London. They are quite slow when they first pull away but seem to have more power at higher speeds. ATO will make a big difference hopefully.

 

[urban469]

For the purposes of ATO the whole of the SSR is divided into 12 "migration areas", each area being fully fitted with no manual driving once the area has been commissioned.
1/ Rayners Lane - Uxbridge
2/ Moor Park > all north
3/ Moor Park/West Harrow - Preston Road
4/ Preston Road - Finchley Road
5/ Hammersmith - Kings Cross
6/ Kings Cross - Embankment via Aldgate
7/ Embankment - Paddington via High Street
8/ Aldgate East - Barking
9/ Barking - Upminster
10/ Earls Court - Wimbledon
11/ Earls Court - Richmond/Chiswick Park *
12/ Chiswick Park - Ealing Broadway/Northfields/Rayners Lane *

('73 Stock to operate in ATP manual driving)

Is that list in order? Do you have any idea of dates?

 

[Tubefan2013]

I wish London underground would standardise the signaling systems,
For example Central line using westinghouse ATP/ATO.
Jubilee line, Northern line TBTC
Victoria line- DTG signaling.
Then soon Subsurface lines- Cityflo.

 

[Manchester77]

The central line was upgraded in the 90s though and there is no real advantage for example when is the S stock going to visit the northern line? It'd be pointless

 

[Dstock7080]

Is that list in order? Do you have any idea of dates?

Yes, for convenience I put the list in area/date order.
Area1 is due for commissioning November 2015.

 

[causton]

Yes, for convenience I put the list in area/date order.
Area1 is due for commissioning November 2015.

Is there supposed to be a * after area 1 then, or will there be no Picc services past Rayners Lane after 2015?

 

[urban469]

Yes, for convenience I put the list in area/date order.
Area1 is due for commissioning November 2015.

Fascinating, thanks. So there should be a speed increase on each area post-commissioning. Any idea of dates for areas 3 and 4?

 

[Tubefan2013]

Once the new signaling is in will trains get up to 62mph? I Wish it would go up to 70mph It would be really useful on the longer sections of the line. On Wiki it says top speed 62mph limited. It would be intresting to see what the S stocks true speed is?

 

[Manchester77]

They're designed for 62 mph as the 2009 stock is designed for 50 mph but they rarely, if ever, will get up to these speeds. On average the met gets up to 50 mph
The A stock was designed for 70 mph but got up to 74 mph

 

[Tubefan2013]

50mph is fast for the likes of the victoria line which stations are fairly close together. However 50mph is slow for the met 62mph would really cut journey times. If tracks are replaced, new trains, new signaling I don't see why their true speed can't be achived?

 

[Manchester77]

50mph is fast for the likes of the victoria line which stations are fairly close together. However 50mph is slow for the met 62mph would really cut journey times. If tracks are replaced, new trains, new signaling I don't see why their true speed can't be achived?

lines are shared with Chiltern, Jubilee and Piccadilly so time tabling issues could arise

 

[MCR247]

It doesn't share tracks with the jubilee

 

[Dstock7080]

Once the new signaling is in will trains get up to 62mph? I Wish it would go up to 70mph It would be really useful on the longer sections of the line. On Wiki it says top speed 62mph limited. It would be intresting to see what the S stocks true speed is?

A line-speed increase to 60mph will be available on certain sections from the new timetable 19 May 2013.

 

[Tubefan2013]

To be honest even presently I feel S stock have been doing about 56mph I know on some Youtube video's of the S stock cab rides i have heard the driver say 56mph.

 

[urban469]

A line-speed increase to 60mph will be available on certain sections from the new timetable 19 May 2013.

That's an increase from 50 to 60mph? Which sections?

 

[Tubefan2013]

I presume a section where the new tracks are?

 

[urban469]

I presume a section where the new tracks are?

I think it's down to the signalling, rather than the tracks. And my question is which sections (meaning where in London).

 

[Dstock7080]

The speed increase to 60mph is:
Harrow north junction-Amersham NB Main (except through Rickmansworth)
Amersham-Harrow north junction SB Main (except through Rickmansworth-Watford north junction)
Watford south junction-Wembley Park SB Fast

Little difference will be made to train timings from 19 May:
NB:
Harrow-Moor Park FL -1min
Ricky-ChorleyWood -½min

SB:
Chesham-Chalfont -½min
Amersham-Chalfont -½min
Chalfont-ChorleyWood -½min
Moor Pk-Harrow FL -½min
Harrow-Wembley FL -½

 

[Dstock7080]

With the demise of A Stock the acceleration rate of S8 Stock between Uxbridge-Hillingdon, Finchley Road-Aldgate below 35km/h, is shortly to be enhanced to better match the performance of C/S7 Stock.

 

[tsr]

May I ask what effect these increases will have on the heritage runs on the 19th May, if indeed any effect at all? I haven't heard anything, so I guess there are no problems foreseen!