Why is the Elizabeth line not "Overground"

[generalnerd]

Can we at least agree that the current Overground and Elizabeth Line should have the same name- whatever that name might end up being?

I can’t agree I’m afraid, they might be technically similar but to a normal passenger they are quite different

 

[Sonic1234]

Can we at least agree that the current Overground and Elizabeth Line should have the same name- whatever that name might end up being?

National Rail?

TfL won't like that!

 

[boiledbeans2]

[...]

Meanwhile the Overground is a brand used for the less frequent suburban services with trains “only” running every 15 - 5 minutes. (I say only meanwhile my local station only has a train every 60 - 30 minutes)

If the Elizabeth Line didn’t have the core then this brand would work.
[...]

As I mentioned in post #31, the Overground does have a high frequency ELL core.
In contrast, the Elizabeth line at Reading is a train every 30 min.

So in other words, both Overground and Elizabeth line have a high frequency core, with sparser services at the extremes.

 

[generalnerd]

As I mentioned in post #31, the Overground does have a high frequency ELL core.
In contrast, the Elizabeth line at Reading is a train every 30 min.

Yes but not all overground trains use that core whereas all Elizabeth line trains (bar the few that go to the main platforms) use the core

 

[AM9]

As I mentioned in post #31, the Overground does have a high frequency ELL core.
In contrast, the Elizabeth line at Reading is a train every 30 min.

So in other words, both Overground and Elizabeth line have a high frequency core, with sparser services at the extremes.

There's no 'core' on any of the six Overground lines, in terms of London rail transport terms. 'Cores' are areas within central London area that serve major destinations with through services. Whitechapel to New Cross is no more central London than Kensington to Clapham Junction is. The London 'cores' are the Lizzie, Thameslink, both branches of the Northern line, Central, Piccadilly, Victoria, Jubilee & District Lines. Their services are justified by the very large numbers of footfalls at their stations around and within the circle line, and interchange traffic from other 'core' stations.
Arguably, the most intense part of the total Overground line network is the stretch between Dalston Kingsland/Junction and Highbury & Islington. None of this is denigrating the effectiveness of the Overground lines, they have been very successful in providing circumferential and some inner radial services on what was drifting towards derelict National Rail provision. AFAIK, local communities see them as essential local links.

 

[Instinct04]

The Elizabeth Line and the Overground are separate modes which provide different services to customers. The lizzy line is an east - west central cross London route, a “Cross Rail“ one might say. It operates with a mixture of services with a range of semi fast and stopping patterns in some areas.


The overground however in 2007 mostly provided new orbital connections around London making travel between suburbs easier, and revitalising underused national rail lines. Since then it has grown to include new extensions and of course the weaver lines.

But I still think that they are different.

 

[Mgameing123]

The Elizabeth Line and the Overground are separate modes which provide different services to customers. The lizzy line is an east - west central cross London route, a “Cross Rail“ one might say. It operates with a mixture of services with a range of semi fast and stopping patterns in some areas.


The overground however in 2007 mostly provided new orbital connections around London making travel between suburbs easier, and revitalising underused national rail lines. Since then it has grown to include new extensions and of course the weaver lines.

But I still think that they are different.

Lea Valley Line*

 

[Transilien]

The overground however in 2007 mostly provided new orbital connections around London making travel between suburbs easier, and revitalising underused national rail lines. Since then it has grown to include new extensions and of course the weaver lines.

The Watford DC line is an example of a radial line that was a part of the overground from the very start

 

[AM9]

The Watford DC line is an example of a radial line that was a part of the overground from the very start

In part, before that it was also both radial as far as Willsden and then circumferential on NLL lines to Dalston, reverting to a short radial stub to Broad Street, - all in 630V DC.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Nov 2025 ==

I can certainly agree with the restoration of the Crossrail brand, to group the Elizabeth Line and Thameslink (plus Crossrail 2 if it ever happens)

I'm with AM9, that these two are sufficiently different with the rest of the Overground with it's shorter journeys (I was going to add slower, but Thameslink is not exactly fast...) to justify a different brand.

I can't see a reason to call Thameslink 'Crossrail' in the same sense that the Lizzie was. Thameslink runs an integrated outer suburban and metro service through a core into both north and south London areas. The Lizzy runs high frequency services from branches both east and west of the core. Talk here of passing the current Thameslink 'metro' services to TfL but still running the outer suburban lines as full NR would be the equivalent running GWR and GA outer subs through the core, - totally different, - even under GBR management.

 

[Jim James]

Overground is more a regional service than a TfL service. Probably needs a new regional transport body covering London and the home counties

 

[PeterC]

Overground is more a regional service than a TfL service. Probably needs a new regional transport body covering London and the home counties

Despite two lines going to termini a short way over the county boundary it is very much part of London's internal transport system.

There are arguments for and against introducing a new version of the LPTB but the Overground isn't one of them.p

 

[Transilien]

Overground is more a regional service than a TfL service. Probably needs a new regional transport body covering London and the home counties

The Metropolitan and central lines are therefore also regional services under your classification

 

[stevieinselby]

As the Elizabeth line links stations that are broadly speaking along the Thames estuary and valley, maybe it should be branded as Thameslink ... just a thought!

 

[camflyer]

As the Elizabeth line links stations that are broadly speaking along the Thames estuary and valley, maybe it should be branded as Thameslink ... just a thought!

I don't think Thameslink is an especially strong brand.

 

[Mgameing123]

I don't think Thameslink is an especially strong brand.

There is also the problem that it refers to nowerdays an entire TOC.