Why is it so expensive on UK Trains??

[TrainBrain185]

I am sure many more ask this question?
My wife and I regularly holiday in Italy and do a lot of travel with the TrenItalia network and their trains are so cheap, its incredible. A couple of years ago for example, we travelled from Milan to Venice day return First Class on their Eurostar train for 120Eu for the both of us, which at the time worked out around £85. On board, we were treated to complimentary teas, coffees, biscuits croissants etc all free. The distance from Milan to Venice I would say is comparable to York to London perhaps? Work out how much an Italian visitor here would pay on NXEC from London to York, First Class Day Return and see if its a bargain?!?
I really boils my blood with the high fares for rail travel in the UK whilst many other countries offer superb value for money. :-x
Regards.

 

[asylumxl]

Alot of companies on the continent are subsidised. In reality, so are many of ours, just we never see the return from it.

Why is it so expensive? Cos the TOCs and government can get away with it. Ofcourse, that's personal opinion.

 

[mumrar]

It's so expensive because we have so many links in so many chains. With idiot jobs like consultancy stealing a fortune from companies for alleged expertise. Some of our train drivers have salaries getting close to that of junior MPs. We are also trying to pay for a revolution in the whole infrastructure due to endemic chronic under investment pretty much right since British Railways was formed. I think you have to look at the density of which our railways are packed in. Due to historical info we think we've lost so much, but compared to many a large proportion of the country has access to good rail services.

 

[moonrakerz]

I don't really think that the trains in UK cost anymore to run than trains in similar cost countries - such as Italy. The bottom line has to be that NO national railway system makes money or even gets anywhere near breaking even.
The reason for your Italian journey being so cheap was down to much bigger subsidies. Your "complimentary teas, coffees, biscuits croissants etc" were being paid for by the Italian tax payer.
Would you be happier subsidising an Italian tourist, so he can do London to York and back for £40 ?

It has to be paid for one way or another.................

 

[jon0844]

Would you be happier subsidising an Italian tourist, so he can do London to York and back for £40 ?

To a certain degree, I think it would be okay to increase the subsidy if it boosted tourism and kept fares down for us too!

However, I think foreigners can already benefit from special deals that we can't anyway?

 

[glynn80]

However, I think foreigners can already benefit from special deals that we can't anyway?

Well Britrail and Interail passes constitute this to a certain extent but there is reciprocity in that they also cannot purchase similar passes for their own country of residence, in the same fashion.

 

[TrainBrain185]

I don't really think that the trains in UK cost anymore to run than trains in similar cost countries - such as Italy. The bottom line has to be that NO national railway system makes money or even gets anywhere near breaking even.
The reason for your Italian journey being so cheap was down to much bigger subsidies. Your "complimentary teas, coffees, biscuits croissants etc" were being paid for by the Italian tax payer.
Would you be happier subsidising an Italian tourist, so he can do London to York and back for £40 ?

It has to be paid for one way or another.................

Yes! That means it would same price for me. TrenItalia do not mess around with discount day savers, promotion tickets, cheaper seats on certain days, higher price on others etc etc. They just sell you a set price rail ticket fare from A to B each day 7 days a week, much easier!
One thing I can assure is the miles my wife and I have covered on the TrenItalia network, I would need a small mortgage to pay for the equivalent distance on the UK Network.
Its not hard to hear many comments from visitors to the UK how much our trains cost to travel on....
The UK Network has been engineered to make profits, even though the british tax payer does subsidise it a great deal. Train companies and their shareholders benefit. Not the fare paying passenger.
Regards:
Regards.

 

[moonrakerz]

The UK Network has been engineered to make profits, even though the british tax payer does subsidise it a great deal.

The UK taxpayer pays TOCs to run services whilst allowing them to keep the revenue they gather in so doing. If these two inputs are more than their operating costs they make a profit. If they aren't, the TOC threatens to pull out so the Government throws in some more of OUR money !

It is a crazy system - but can you think of a better one ? You can have a totally commercial railway network - just like Woolworths, LDV, MFI etc, etc !! or a totally centrally funded one like the NHS where demand completely outstrips availability because everything is "free".
Obviously, somewhere in the middle is the "best" system, but how much do you veer from/towards each ludicrous extreme ?

Answers on a postcard in less than 25 words !

 

[stut]

They just sell you a set price rail ticket fare from A to B each day 7 days a week, much easier!

Not so, there are plenty advance rates - AMICA for domestica travel, and SMART for international, giving inflexible, pre-pay tickets at a discount of up to 50%. Also bear in mind that reservations will shortly be compulsory for all long-distance travel in Italy.

The difference in the UK is that the advance purchase tickets are at a deeper discount and the walk-up tickets at a higher premium. No doubt this is in part due to capacity constraint (i.e. the need to give higher 'reward' for travelling off-peak), in part due to government policy, and in part due to the TOCs' dependence on expense-claiming business travel for a huge portion of their profits.

However, if you start looking at fares in France and Germany (which have more comparable salary/cost of living rates than Italy - the exchange rate hardly reflects this accurately), you'll find that this same discrepancy is growing. Not quite at UK levels just yet, but ever growing.

What you are comparing is the cost of walk-up, flexible travel. This is only part of the picture. You mention a return from London to York for £40? I've done it for £18!

 

[Metroland]

There is a lot of nonsense talked about costs of the industry, often with not much hard evidence. However, for those that are interested in the facts they are here

http://www.cfit.gov.uk/docs/2008/cipto/pdf/cipto-tn3.pdf