Why is First Class so disappointing in many operators?

[StephenHunter]

A small section at the end of the train with antimacassars on the seats... why not actual compartments?

 

[Clansman]

Why compartments? They make no difference.

For trains in and around London, they are there simply for guaranteeing someone the seat. On regional services, it's about the extra space, and on Intercity it's about extra space and enhanced service.

In terms of maximising comfort where applicable, I do agree in this instance that it's disappointing.

 

[swt_passenger]

A small section at the end of the train with antimacassars on the seats... why not actual compartments?

That sort of first class is likely to disappear completely soon. I'd suggest it's more likely that you'll see stock with doors having them removed...

 

[physics34]

Why compartments? They make no difference.

For trains in and around London, they are there simply for guaranteeing someone the seat. On regional services, it's about the extra space, and on Intercity it's about extra space and enhanced service.

In terms of maximising comfort where applicable, I do agree in this instance that it's disappointing.

Its not actually 'about' those things its just what standards have 'become' over the years. First class on mk1 EMUs was clearly also about comfort too. Its a shame this has been lost over the years. Im convinced people will pay more for a decent enchanced service

 

[yorksrob]

Why compartments? They make no difference.

For trains in and around London, they are there simply for guaranteeing someone the seat. On regional services, it's about the extra space, and on Intercity it's about extra space and enhanced service.

In terms of maximising comfort where applicable, I do agree in this instance that it's disappointing.

Because on medium distance routes, compartments make a much cosier, more pleasant environment, particularly the first class ones.

 

[Mordac]

Because on medium distance routes, compartments make a much cosier, more pleasant environment, particularly the first class ones.

Until you're stuck in one alone with a drunk 6ft2 chav.

 

[12guard4]

First class is just about profit maximising.

 

[Darandio]

First class is just about profit maximising.

Which is what a business is supposed to do.........

 

[yorksrob]

Until you're stuck in one alone with a drunk 6ft2 chav.

At least there may be other compartments one can escape to, which is more than can be said for a 153 !

 

[MCR247]

Unless an operator currently has first class accomodation that is regularly underused, surely the quality is good enough as its doing the job it is supposed to

 

[Jonfun]

As far as I'm concerned, If there's passengers willing to pay vastlt overinflated fares for a slightly more comfy seat and a bit more space then by all means keep it.
It keeps a demographic of passengers happy, it keeps a revenue stream going into the railway and on intercity operators it keeps First Class Hosts in a job.

 

[Abpj17]

Why compartments? They make no difference.

For trains in and around London, they are there simply for guaranteeing someone the seat. On regional services, it's about the extra space, and on Intercity it's about extra space and enhanced service.

In terms of maximising comfort where applicable, I do agree in this instance that it's disappointing.

The compartments make a difference in terms of noise.

The GTR 700s have a distinct difference - tables, plugs, better padded seats, compartments, and more space. So it's potentially more than guaranteeing a seat (but as first class provision varies by stock, that's the primary driver). But as a non-intercity of course not food or very plush as you get on the longer distance services.

And of course, all those benefits can be accessed for free/standard price by walking to the other end of the train

 

[Master29]

Which is what a business is supposed to do.........

But NOT what a service is meant to do. Why all about profit?

 

[Surreytraveller]

It keeps Ticket Inspectors in a job and some easy penalty fares

 

[goblinuser]

I believe the poor quality of typical first class is due to the focus on capacity over comfort. As people mention, first class today often means little more than "higher chance of a seat".
On many lines demand outstrips supply. No operator needs to invest much in first class, it's not going to get more people travelling, and even if it did they don't need more people.

 

[physics34]

As far as I'm concerned, If there's passengers willing to pay vastlt overinflated fares for a slightly more comfy seat and a bit more space then by all means keep it.
It keeps a demographic of passengers happy, it keeps a revenue stream going into the railway and on intercity operators it keeps First Class Hosts in a job.

Thats the point. It should be a more than just a slightly more comfortable seat and extra legroom.

 

[infobleep]

The compartments make a difference in terms of noise.

The GTR 700s have a distinct difference - tables, plugs, better padded seats, compartments, and more space. So it's potentially more than guaranteeing a seat (but as first class provision varies by stock, that's the primary driver). But as a non-intercity of course not food or very plush as you get on the longer distance services.

And of course, all those benefits can be accessed for free/standard price by walking to the other end of the train

Are the first class seats really better padded on the 700s compared to the standard class areas? I can't say I've noticed any improvement myself.

I make a point of sitting in declassified first class on the 700s and even standard class, that was formerly first class on the Turbos. I personally think the standard class that was formerly first class is more comfortable.

The Turbos may lack plug sockets compared to the 700s. However they have WiFi and the 700s don't have that. So I'd say the first class in a Turbo, is better.

Of course comfort and availability of WiFi is subject to personal preference.

In the South East one has a reasonable chance to travel in declassified first class areas. There's the 700s; all the trains on the Sutton loop, bar officially I think two and the class 450s on the Guildford to Ascot line. There may also be some Southern branded stock with first class areas running on metro routes. The metro routes not having first class in their timetable.

 

[infobleep]

Abpj17 is indeed correct, as I suspected he was. The first class seats on a class 700 are better padded than standard class but of course, just as good as the declassified first class area. Yet I failed to notice this until I did a direct comparison just now. That to me suggests the increased padding isn't enough to notice unless you switch whilst making the same journey.

I still think the first class seats in the Turbo are more comfortable and they have WiFi. I'm surprised GWR didn't make one section of their Turbos declassified first class, like GTR do, rather than converting it to standard class. Then they could always have first class at the front.

 

[AM9]

Abpj17 is indeed correct, as I suspected he was. The first class seats on a class 700 are better padded than standard class but of course, just as good as the declassified first class area. Yet I failed to notice this until I did a direct comparison just now. That to me suggests the increased padding isn't enough to notice unless you switch whilst making the same journey.

As mentioned above, first class on outer suburban trains that are heavily loaded in the peak isn't about luxury, it's about the chance of getting a seat and consequentially, less chance of somebody standing next to the seats. The class 700 1st isn't bad and there's certainly more room, width and legroom.

I still think the first class seats in the Turbo are more comfortable and they have WiFi. I'm surprised GWR didn't make one section of their Turbos declassified first class, like GTR do, rather than converting it to standard class. Then they could always have first class at the front.

Wi-fi will be added to virtually every train over the next few years, if only to releive the TOC of some of the responsibility of keeping passengers informed whilst travelling. The fact that the class 700s are fitted for but not with wi-fi is a consequence of when they were ordered and delivered. There is a commitment to connect the hardware up to the existing wiring infrastructure in the near future, - that is certainly much more likely to happen than less essential additions like seat-back tables, armrests and power outlets, which it has been said compromised the stock's very short dwell time capabilities..

 

[Abpj17]

Abpj17 is indeed correct, as I suspected he was. The first class seats on a class 700 are better padded than standard class but of course, just as good as the declassified first class area. Yet I failed to notice this until I did a direct comparison just now. That to me suggests the increased padding isn't enough to notice unless you switch whilst making the same journey.

I still think the first class seats in the Turbo are more comfortable and they have WiFi. I'm surprised GWR didn't make one section of their Turbos declassified first class, like GTR do, rather than converting it to standard class. Then they could always have first class at the front.

*she - and yes, I sit in them most days (or rather the identical first-class-permanently-declassified in the last carriage). They are much nicer - you notice when you spend 2 hours a day as a passenger on them. I can't compare whether the presence of female curves makes more noticeable/comfortable too!

 

[route101]

Until you're stuck in one alone with a drunk 6ft2 chav.

Been in awkward situations in Eastern europe when its just been me and someone dodgy in the compartment .Or its really full and claustrophobic/hot .
I suppose to some people its great socially .

 

[richieb1971]

I noticed 1st class is not what it should be.

My opinion is that you get a certain class of person sitting with you. Rather than your average Joe. The price should reflect whats on offer though. In the weakest cases of 1st class, the price should be 10% more, not double.

 

[CosherB]

I noticed 1st class is not what it should be.

My opinion is that you get a certain class of person sitting with you. Rather than your average Joe. The price should reflect whats on offer though. In the weakest cases of 1st class, the price should be 10% more, not double.

So what sort of 'class' are you?

 

[devonexpress]

I my opinion GWR's First Class seating and layout is by far the best. However it could do with an extra carriage especially in the busy periods. What I would like to see is the introduction of a better trolley service like VTEC with GWR branded china cups and plates, and decent meals being offered(as was when the travelling chef used to be around) no just a sandwich and a biscuit. Maybe a breakfast, lunch, afternoon tea, dinner style menu, with a proper first class host, no just a women/man in normal GWR uniform.

 

[richieb1971]

So what sort of 'class' are you?

I'm the sort of class of person that wants value for money. EMT 1st class is great. I remember getting a whole table to myself, coffee, tea and biscuits galore and a free newspaper and Wifi last time I tried it. It was an extra £15.


The Thameslink franchise, along with every other that uses EMU's offers a very degraded 1st class service that offers somewhat better privacy and a slightly comfier seat. I wouldn't pay £15 extra for that. I'd pay an extra couple of quid at most.

My only pre bought tickets that are 1st class are for guarantee of a seat. If I know its a commuter train and seats are scarce I'll pay the extra knowing I can sit down and get a few extras as well.

 

[BestWestern]

I my opinion GWR's First Class seating and layout is by far the best. However it could do with an extra carriage especially in the busy periods. What I would like to see is the introduction of a better trolley service like VTEC with GWR branded china cups and plates, and decent meals being offered(as was when the travelling chef used to be around) not just a sandwich and a biscuit. Maybe a breakfast, lunch, afternoon tea, dinner style menu, with a proper first class host, no just a women/man in normal GWR uniform.

If you want a sandwich you'll be paying for it!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Ok here we go:

CrossCountry: Quite decent

East Midlands Trains: Alright. Meridian seats nicer than XC voyager, food much stingier than XC though... don't like EMT HSTs either...

Grand Central: Very good

Great Western Railway: Really impressive. Love it..

Greater Anglia (excluding 90Mk3s) Disappointing...
GA 90+Mk3 Good

Hull Trains: Very good

London Midland: Disappointing...

Scotrail: Disappointing...

Southeastern: Awful

South West Trains: Disappointing...

GTR Great Northern: Very disappointing...
GTR Southern: Awful
GTR Thameslink: Disappointing...

TransPennine Express: Alright I suppose, could be better
New refurbished 185 with new leather seats: Good

Virgin Pendolino: Very good
Virgin Voyager: Good.

Virgin EC: Perfect - the ultimate first class experience!

Overall, my favourites are VTEC and GWR without doubt!

 

[BestWestern]

Offerings on both GWR and, I presume, VTEC will change rather dramatically when IET arrives...

 

[yorkie]

The worst operators are the likes of GTR and Southeastern. Many of their trains have no tangible difference between 1st & Standard class, and there is often no enforcement. Definitely not worth paying any extra for (except on some routes perhaps if you had loads of money to burn and desperately wanted more chance of a seat at certain times).

 

[fairysdad]

Slightly OT, but I had to laugh this morning as I was on my train slowly crawling into Waterloo - an American couple and their child were in the carraige, and the little girl pointed out the window and asked 'Why is that train white?'. Her dad replied that the 'red trains like we're in' are 'economy class', while the white trains are 'first class'.