Why is Conwy a request stop?

[zwk500]

I meant as in anything moving that could make the platforms need to be made shorter. The 800 year old arch and the slightly newer tunnel were all there when the original station and longer platforms where there.

As I pointed out, the goalposts have moved. As the platforms have been removed, any reinstatement would need to meet the current standard (which I think is 2.5m unobstructed width) or get a derogation.

On a pedantic note, is the arch actually 800 years old or was it put in for the railway? It looks suspiciously gothic for it to have been part of the original walls.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

It was knocked through the original walls when the railway was created.

 

[Ianno87]

As I pointed out, the goalposts have moved. As the platforms have been removed, any reinstatement would need to meet the current standard (which I think is 2.5m unobstructed width) or get a derogation.

Also, there'll be rules now about constricting anything that compromises the appearance or surrounding stuff like castles that is not "in keeping" with it.

 

[Envoy]

I bet most people on the trains don’t even realise that they are passing such a wonderful castle.

 

[wobman]

I bet most people on the trains don’t even realise that they are passing such a wonderful castle.

There's a notch ground out of the castle walls to enable clearance for some rolling stock, I wonder if there's any rolling stock that wouldn't fit through ?
It will be one more problem for the gauging train to check from Llandudno junction to Holyhead

 

[Western Gaffer]

In some ways similar to Caernarfon but a bit nicer, and of course reachable directly by rail unlike Caernarfon.

The good folk at the Welsh Highland Railway may take issue with this....

 

[zwk500]

The good folk at the Welsh Highland Railway may take issue with this....

You can describe the journey by rail to Caernarfon many ways, but 'direct' is not one of them. Unless you've come from Portmadog itself.

 

[nw1]

It might be easier when the 197s are in service, as those have selective door opening. Not the Mk4s, though I suppose "local door" could be used.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Aug 2021 ==



Though some of them aren't clear. I don't think many would realise that "Yr Wyddgrug" and "Mold" are the same place.

On the other hand I doubt anyone under the age of about 50 has ever used the spelling "Carnarvon" with a V and missing E, nor referred to the Ffestiniog Railway with only one F.

Older than that I suspect. Make it 60 at least. While I have a vague, possibly false, childhood memory of seeing 'Conway' in 1978 that spelling had been deprecated before the end of my childhood. And I have never known 'Festiniog' with only one F: it was certainly two Fs in 1979. Likewise 'Dolgelley'; the stuff of old maps.

I suspect few members of Gen X can really remember these old Anglicised spellings. (Outside Wales, I know someone 10 years or so older than me who still refers to Thessaloniki as 'Salonica' and some people still put an unnecessary 's' on the end of Lyon and Marseille).

 

[tomwills98]

Conwy does come up on the rail websites. However, if you type in the English spelling “Conway" - you get Conway Park. Of course, this all arises from the mad quest to try and wipe out the English names for places in Wales and use only the Welsh version - even though 80% of the people of Wales don’t speak Welsh - let alone everybody else. So, we could have a situation where many people would like to go direct to Conway but think it does not have a station.

Imagine how many more people the railway would get if it wasn't just Llandudno, Llandrindod, Cwmbran, etc

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Older than that I suspect. Make it 60 at least. While I have a vague, possibly false, childhood memory of seeing 'Conway' in 1978 that spelling had been deprecated before the end of my childhood. And I have never known 'Festiniog' with only one F: it was certainly two Fs in 1979. Likewise 'Dolgelley'; the stuff of old maps.

I suspect few members of Gen X can really remember these old Anglicised spellings. (Outside Wales, I know someone 10 years or so older than me who still refers to Thessaloniki as 'Salonica' and some people still put an unnecessary 's' on the end of Lyon and Marseille).

Most of the standardisation of place names took place in the 1970s when bilingual roadsigns were introduced following the Bowen report. The report recommended, sensibly in my view, that where the English and Welsh names were similar a common spelling should be adopted provided there was local consent.

In areas that were, at the time, overwhelmingly Welsh speaking the Welsh spellings were generally adopted to little local opposition. In more anglicised areas a bilingual approach was adopted leading to the infamous AA Gill crack "Y Fflint, Flint, so bad they named it twice"!

Place name history in Wales (as elsewhere) can be fascinating. Trellech / Tryleg in Monmouthshire for instance can be and is also spelt Trelech, Treleck or Trelleck while Rhyl involves the English word "hill" with the Welsh definite article 'yr' preceding it. Nothing quite compares with Torpenhow Hill in Cumbria though which consists of the word 'hill' in four different languages; Old English, Cumbric / Old Welsh, Norwegian and Modern English.

 

[krus_aragon]

I have occasionally wondered if a case could be made for relocating Conwy station a few hundred metres to the north (outside the city walls) to allow an improved range of services to be provided. I dare say the existing station site might be an attractive opportunity for a sympathetic redevelopment, if the planners would countenance it.

Rather than relocating north (and assuming re-extending the platforms to their original size doesn't suit), I'd suggest relocating the station south of the town wall, into what used to be Conwy station's goods yard. There's easy access to Rose Hill St and the rest of town on the adjacent footpath through Mill Gate.

An excellent period view of the goods yard and original station can be seen in a hand-coloured 1898 film of a "phantom" train journey through the tubular bridge and station:

Watch Conway Castle - panoramic view of Conway on the L.& N.W. Railway - BFI Player

Conwy's bridge, castle and station glide past, as if in a dream, in this beautiful phantom train ride film (no ghosts but apparently no train either) from 1898.

player.bfi.org.uk

 

[SJL2020]

An excellent period view of the goods yard and original station can be seen in a hand-coloured 1898 film of a "phantom" train journey through the tubular bridge and station:

Watch Conway Castle - panoramic view of Conway on the L.& N.W. Railway - BFI Player

Conwy's bridge, castle and station glide past, as if in a dream, in this beautiful phantom train ride film (no ghosts but apparently no train either) from 1898.

player.bfi.org.uk

Brilliant ! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect few members of Gen X can really remember these old Anglicised spellings.

I'm right at the young end of Gen X (born 1979 - I think about 82 onwards is regarded as Millennial*) and I remember them, though admittedly not really on railway station signs.

* Millennial meaning "came of age, i.e. turned 18, in the 2000s", not "people born in the 2000s" who are Gen-Z or post-millennials.

 

[Pigeon]

It was knocked through the original walls when the railway was created.

Surely not. Everyone knows Nazi Ed future-proofed it against possible railway construction when he built the place.

 

[wobman]

I can't see TFW extending the platforms at Conwy, the new 197's being fitted with ASDO will in their eyes solve the problems at the station. I know Northern are having numerous problems with the ASDO system, let's hope TFW have a policy for ASDO operation at short platforms !

One solution could be make a nice direct scenic walkway from Llandudno junction to Conwy for passengers wanting to get connections for onward travel.
I've walked the existing route to Conwy from the jn and it's nice but hard work if you have luggage etc

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't see TFW extending the platforms at Conwy, the new 197's being fitted with ASDO will in their eyes solve the problems at the station. I know Northern are having numerous problems with the ASDO system, let's hope TFW have a policy for ASDO operation at short platforms !

One solution could be make a nice direct scenic walkway from Llandudno junction to Conwy for passengers wanting to get connections for onward travel.
I've walked the existing route to Conwy from the jn and it's nice but hard work if you have luggage etc

Nobody - literally nobody* - is going to want to walk a mile (it's about that) with luggage. A scenic walkway would be good to have but it will be used for leisure walks, not train connections.

* Well, not quite nobody, backpackers would. But certainly none of the older crowd that the area tends to appeal to - the younger crowd are often much further south in Snowdonia doing active stuff.

 

[Djgr]

I think what strikes me from this discussion is that closing the station in the mid 60s was a seriously dumb Beeching move (obviously ditto Shotton).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think what strikes me from this discussion is that closing the station in the mid 60s was a seriously dumb Beeching move (obviously ditto Shotton).

I think such decisions need to be taken in the context of their time - it might seem silly now, but I don't think it was such a genteel tourist trap in the 60s/70s as it is now, more of a local place for local people, though tourists would visit the castle it was more likely as a day out (by bus or car) from Llandudno.

I'd agree on Shotton - the place isn't up to much, but closing a useful interchange is a bit silly, and would result in a very round-about journey to get from the Borderlands Line to Chester.

Mind you closing Caernarfon-Bangor would be seen as nuts if it was today - it was a different era.

 

[Andrew*Debbie]

Nobody - literally nobody* - is going to want to walk a mile (it's about that) with luggage. A scenic walkway would be good to have but it will be used for leisure walks, not train connections.

Or carry heavy luggage up the stairs from the Westbound platform. If there is a step free route on this side, I'm not aware of it. But then I never looked for it either.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Or carry heavy luggage up the stairs from the Westbound platform. If there is a step free route on this side, I'm not aware of it. But then I never looked for it either.

There is a step free route , but it is a very long de tour that nobody would want to do carrying luggage.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is a step free route , but it is a very long de tour that nobody would want to do carrying luggage.

You rather have the impression of old fashioned suitcases.

If it's a rucksack, they'll use the stairs.

If it's a trolley case, the step free route will be fine (but they won't walk a mile from LLJ).

 

[wobman]

You rather have the impression of old fashioned suitcases.

If it's a rucksack, they'll use the stairs.

If it's a trolley case, the step free route will be fine (but they won't walk a mile from LLJ).

If there's no stopping train due at Conwy for some time it's an alternative, there's always a bus out the front of the station aswell.
Personally though I've walked with luggage many a times on holiday far more than 20 minutes, I think it a good alternative for some.

Going back to stopping at the station though it's back to normal at Conwy with all booked trains stopping from 12th September. Using local door on a busy train / station is a pain and increases dwell times but there is no alternative until the new 197's arrive and ASDO operation may be used.

 

[Djgr]

Nobody - literally nobody* - is going to want to walk a mile (it's about that) with luggage. A scenic walkway would be good to have but it will be used for leisure walks, not train connections.

* Well, not quite nobody, backpackers would. But certainly none of the older crowd that the area tends to appeal to - the younger crowd are often much further south in Snowdonia doing active stuff.

It's even further than schlepping to Piccadilly 13/14!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Aug 2021 ==

I think such decisions need to be taken in the context of their time - it might seem silly now, but I don't think it was such a genteel tourist trap in the 60s/70s as it is now, more of a local place for local people, though tourists would visit the castle it was more likely as a day out (by bus or car) from Llandudno.

I'd agree on Shotton - the place isn't up to much, but closing a useful interchange is a bit silly, and would result in a very round-about journey to get from the Borderlands Line to Chester.

Mind you closing Caernarfon-Bangor would be seen as nuts if it was today - it was a different era.

Possibly but Llanfairfechan for example remained open. Shotton is hardly a tourist trap but the Queensferry/Shotton/Connah's Quay conurbation probably has one of the largest populations in North Wales.

 

[PHILIPE]

I think such decisions need to be taken in the context of their time - it might seem silly now, but I don't think it was such a genteel tourist trap in the 60s/70s as it is now, more of a local place for local people, though tourists would visit the castle it was more likely as a day out (by bus or car) from Llandudno.

I'd agree on Shotton - the place isn't up to much, but closing a useful interchange is a bit silly, and would result in a very round-about journey to get from the Borderlands Line to Chester.

Mind you closing Caernarfon-Bangor would be seen as nuts if it was today - it was a different era.

A popular town like Brecon was completely isolated from the rest of the Rail Network following the Beeching cuts before which 4 different routes converged on it.

 

[30907]

Possibly but Llanfairfechan for example remained open. Shotton is hardly a tourist trap but the Queensferry/Shotton/Connah's Quay conurbation probably has one of the largest populations in North Wales.

Indeed, but did that translate into passengers on the Chester and Holyhead? Medium-sized urban areas tended to be much more bus-focused then (and their roads relatively empty).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Aug 2021 ==

A popular town like Brecon was completely isolated from the rest of the Rail Network following the pre Beeching cuts before which 4 different routes converged on it.

pedantic correction there

 

[HORNIMANS]

London to Holyhead Inter-city trains used to stop at Penmaenmawr and Llanfairfechan then non stop across Angelsey to Holyhead..

 

[mrd269697]

I think it’s safe to say that from what has been discussed here, Wales has a very poor and fragmented rail network. Of course, it is sparsely populated, especially in the north, but the towns and destinations, although not heavily populated, have large numbers of outsiders coming and going, for example students to Bangor, and tourists, to places such as Conwy.

Whether beeching was right or wrong is not really relevant, times change and places which are now tourist hotspots maybe weren’t at the time. I think the cuts before and after that period were a bit shortsighted but I suppose nearly 60 years have passed now so it’s neither here nor there.


the north Wales coast line has an unusual timetable with irregular calling patterns and frequencies. And large populations (for north Wales standards) not served well by rail (Conwy) or not served at all (Holywell). Hopefully the north Wales metro sees an increased frequency east of LLJ and some new stations such as Holywell and Broughton Parkway.

 

[nw1]

I'm right at the young end of Gen X (born 1979 - I think about 82 onwards is regarded as Millennial*) and I remember them, though admittedly not really on railway station signs.

* Millennial meaning "came of age, i.e. turned 18, in the 2000s", not "people born in the 2000s" who are Gen-Z or post-millennials.

I'm rather older within Gen X and can't really remember them apart from that one occasion in 1978, though admittedly I did not visit Wales between 1981-87 inclusive. I did look at road atlases though.

I am fairly sure it was "Conwy" in summer 1980, when we travelled back from Anglesey along the A55, and I recall road atlases in the early 80s spelling it "Conwy". Likewise "Dolgellau" and I think "Caernarfon", though admittedly I have the feeling the hybrid spelling "Caernarvon" may have been used for a short while ("Caer", but "v" rather than "f"). Not plain "Carnarvon" though. And definitely always two "F"s in Ffestiniog. And always "Porthmadog" not "Portmadoc", another one I have seen on old maps.

By 1988 when we visited Pembrokeshire it was full bilingual signage, with the Welsh name taking first place except close to the English border.

 

[Djgr]

Good luck trying to find Port Dinorwic these days!

 

[6Gman]

I'm rather older within Gen X and can't really remember them apart from that one occasion in 1978, though admittedly I did not visit Wales between 1981-87 inclusive. I did look at road atlases though.

I am fairly sure it was "Conwy" in summer 1980, when we travelled back from Anglesey along the A55, and I recall road atlases in the early 80s spelling it "Conwy". Likewise "Dolgellau" and I think "Caernarfon", though admittedly I have the feeling the hybrid spelling "Caernarvon" may have been used for a short while ("Caer", but "v" rather than "f"). Not plain "Carnarvon" though. And definitely always two "F"s in Ffestiniog. And always "Porthmadog" not "Portmadoc", another one I have seen on old maps.

By 1988 when we visited Pembrokeshire it was full bilingual signage, with the Welsh name taking first place except close to the English border.

I think we might all be grateful that Portmadoc/Porthmadog replaced the earlier Ynyscynhaiarn. Which would certainly test the announcer at Shrewsbury!