Why I think we should leave the EU

[PHILIPE]

If Railways To Go Metric is imposed on us, then this another reason to leave the meddling EU. In 1975, we held a referendum on a COMMON MARKET but not being partly governed by Europe. The political elite don't wan't to give us a referendum on powers being transferred to Europe, the only hint being by the Conservatives in 2017 should they not get certain powers back, which they won't. The Tories are stalling and playing for time as it is. We should be given this referendum to settle the matter once and for all without delay as it is running 30 or more years late already.

 

[crehld]

If such a step is imposed on us, then this another reason to leave the meddling EU.

As above, this is not a step imposed on us by the meddling EU. The article - like almost all of those in the Daily Mail - is factually wrong on almost every count. As for the random and ill-informed rant about a referendum, there doesn't appear to be any relevance to the topic under discussion.

 

[sadgit]

If such a step is imposed on us, then this another reason to leave the meddling EU. In 1975, we held a referendum on a COMMON MARKET but not being partly governed by Europe. The political elite don't wan't to give us a referendum on powers being transferred to Europe, the only hint being by the Conservatives in 2017 should they not get certain powers back, which they won't. The Tories are stalling and playing for time as it is. We should be given this referendum to settle the matter once and for all without delay as it is running 30 or more years late already.

I came to this thread expecting to find some ill-informed anti-EU drivel based on made-up nonsense, and now I can leave it satisfied.

 

[PHILIPE]

I came to this thread expecting to find some ill-informed anti-EU drivel based on made-up nonsense, and now I can leave it satisfied.

Pleased not to have disappointed but it strikes me you are one of those who don't want the people to decide who governs them. Time to close now. Cheers.

 

[Railsigns]

Pleased not to have disappointed but it strikes me you are one of those who don't want the people to decide who governs them.

That's funny. I would have sworn that MEPs were elected by the people.

 

[anme]

Pleased not to have disappointed but it strikes me you are one of those who don't want the people to decide who governs them. Time to close now. Cheers.

Why do you assume that someone who points out - correctly - that you were writing ill-formed nonsense is not in favour of democracy? That seems quite a significant leap of logic so I would like you to explain.

 

[PHILIPE]

Why do you assume that someone who points out - correctly - that you were writing ill-formed nonsense is not in favour of democracy? That seems quite a significant leap of logic so I would like you to explain.

The whole point of my post is to show that I am in favour of democracy.
Also, I know MEPs are elected by the people but the point is are we governed by Westminster fully or part by Brussels. That is the issue.

 

[Railsigns]

Also, I know MEPs are elected by the people but the point is are we governed by Westminster fully or part by Brussels. That is the issue.

Of course we aren't governed by Westminster fully.

If Westminster is the only democratic layer of government in your eyes, does this mean you're against local government as well?

 

[PHILIPE]

Of course we aren't governed by Westminster fully.

If Westminster is the only democratic layer of government in your eyes, does this mean you're against local government as well?

No. What I am against is the undemocratic change from Westminster to Brussels for many aspects of governance.

 

[Railsigns]

What I am against is the undemocratic change from Westminster to Brussels for many aspects of governance.

In what way is this undemocratic? In a multi-layer system of government, where each layer comprises elected representatives, what is it that makes the top layer in Brussels uniquely undemocratic in your view?

Do you also regard the devolution of powers downwards from Westminster to an elected Scottish Parliament (for example) as undemocratic?

 

[transmanche]

Also, I know MEPs are elected by the people but the point is are we governed by Westminster fully or part by Brussels. That is the issue.

We are also 'governed' by a myriad of treaties and international bodies which regulate and affect our daily lives to a greater or lesser extent; from NATO to the International Criminal Court, from the International Civil Aviation Organisation to the International Convention for the Transportation of Passengers (CIV). The notion of being "governed solely by Westminster" is rather quaint...

 

[Flamingo]

We are also 'governed' by a myriad of treaties and international bodies which regulate and affect our daily lives to a greater or lesser extent; from NATO to the International Criminal Court, from the International Civil Aviation Organisation to the International Convention for the Transportation of Passengers (CIV). The notion of being "governed solely by Westminster" is rather quaint...

And given some of the things that get elected, would also be rather frightening.....

 

[sadgit]

That's funny. I would have sworn that MEPs were elected by the people.

No. What I am against is the undemocratic change from Westminster to Brussels for many aspects of governance.

These two comments go well together for this reason: we do have democratic control over the EU, through electing MEPs. However, too many people don't care enough to make an informed choice, or want to "protest" by voting in the EU elections for a certain party with a purple and yellow colour who are known for not turning up but still claiming expenses... and therefore not representing their constituents, therefore we get less of a say in the EU, therefore they're shooting themselves in the foot.

Our friend PHILIPE probably did vote for the purple and yellow clowns who now get paid to not represent him in a body he feels is undemocratic due to his own ignorance. Good for him!

 

[jon0844]

Newsflash; if we left the EU, we still wouldn't revert back to imperial measurements. In time we'll still go fully metric.

Metric isn't a European thing. It's a common sense thing. It's going to happen regardless.

Indeed, it might happen quicker because if we decided to do it then we've decided to do it - so that's fine. But how dare someone else tell us what to do!

 

[jopsuk]

remember that many of these "meddling" institutions were founded by and are heavily influenced by the UK

 

[6Gman]

No. What I am against is the undemocratic change from Westminster to Brussels for many aspects of governance.

But the thread is about a Daily Mail story which claims:

a) that the railway is being forced to go metric by EU bureaucrats - which is UNTRUE

b) that safety will be impaired - which is very questionable.


Perhaps we should have a referendum on whether the Daily Mail should be allowed to continue printing BS?

 

[sadgit]

remember that many of these "meddling" institutions were founded by and are heavily influenced by the UK

Well, used to be, before people started electing the Ukip clowns as MEPs so we had no representation and our PM piddled our influence away by trying to look hard.

 

[anme]

The whole point of my post is to show that I am in favour of democracy.
Also, I know MEPs are elected by the people but the point is are we governed by Westminster fully or part by Brussels. That is the issue.

No, you missed the point of my question. You claimed that someone who pointed out - correctly - that you were talking ill-informed nonsense was against democracy. I would like to know how you made that judgement.

I doubt you will ever be governed fully by "Westminster", even if you live in Westminster. Some power rests with the London Assembly, which is in Southwark.

 

[transmanche]

remember that many of these "meddling" institutions were founded by and are heavily influenced by the UK

Such as the Council of Europe and its European Convention of Human Rights (largely written by British lawyers) - which seems to be so hated by UKIP and the Conservatives these days.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

For those of you who don't know how the EU system works.
Every EU country gets commissioners and all country's must agree. So this rule must have been accepted by some UK representative.

 

[sadgit]

For those of you who don't know how the EU system works.
Every EU country gets commisioners and all country's must agree. So this rule must of been accepted by some UK representative.

That's if there even was a rule which, as discussed, there wasn't. It's just more idiocy from the Daily Mail.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Such as the Council of Europe and its European Convention of Human Rights (largely written by British lawyers) - which seems to be so hated by UKIP and the Conservatives these days.

Frankly, it's got nothing to do with the laws themselves, and everything to do with a petty nationalistic sentiment that comes from the childish idea that Europe are "telling us what to do".

It's incredibly pathetic.

 

[St Rollox]

There's plenty from the "Left" don't support the idea of the European Union.
The Daily Mail or Ukip don't have a franchise on disliking the EU.

 

[WessexEclectic]

These two comments go well together for this reason: we do have democratic control over the EU, through electing MEPs.

What use is electing an MEP when the only body able to introduce primary legeslation is the Commission? And if you look at the way the voting of MEPs is organised in the European Parliament, it makes the whipping system at Westminster look positively democratic. In the EU, Politics is too dangerous to be left to the people.

As they have now become, the purple and yellow party are a pro-european's best asset.

 

[edwin_m]

The EU is far from perfect but quite frankly Westminster governments have done far more damaging things over the years. In fact the EU has probably acted as a check on the wilder instincts of some of our domestic politicians.

Now we have a constant barrage of disinformation from certain parts of the media, which most of our politicians are too spineless to stand up and refute. Result being if we have a referendum an ill-informed general public will almost certainly vote us out, which will also give the SNP the excuse to hold another independence referendum in which they will quite probably be successful.

I work for the European branch of a large American company, which would certainly be less keen on basing in the UK if there was less access to the European market. We also have numerous engineers on the books from Spain in particular, partly because there are too few engineers graduating in the UK. This wouldn't be possible without the rights of free movement that are a core principle of the EU and opposed by the likes of UKIP. So I reserve the right to take it very personally if you lot vote me out of a job...

 

[ExRes]

Frankly, it's got nothing to do with the laws themselves, and everything to do with a petty nationalistic sentiment that comes from the childish idea that Europe are "telling us what to do".

It's incredibly pathetic.

So I would assume you're all for allowing people to have their own opinions ?

On a different point altogether, how is it that this forum is so full of references to the Daily Mail if everyone claims to detest it so much, do all the quotes come from a friend of a friend who can't be named ?

 

[Antman]

:roll:

If Railways To Go Metric is imposed on us, then this another reason to leave the meddling EU. In 1975, we held a referendum on a COMMON MARKET but not being partly governed by Europe. The political elite don't wan't to give us a referendum on powers being transferred to Europe, the only hint being by the Conservatives in 2017 should they not get certain powers back, which they won't. The Tories are stalling and playing for time as it is. We should be given this referendum to settle the matter once and for all without delay as it is running 30 or more years late already.

Regardless of the railway to go metric issue I fully agree with you about a referendum.

Sadly threads like this just get bogged down with the usual anti Daily Mail rhetoric:roll:

 

[AM9]

remember that many of these "meddling" institutions were founded by and are heavily influenced by the UK

Government agreement to formally adopt metric measurement was made in 1965, that's eight years before the UK joined the EEC, - but let's not let that fact get in the way of a Daily Mailesque xenophobic rant from the OP.

 

[Flamingo]

If the UK left the EU, what do those who are so keen on it think will happen?

The country is not going to fall through a hole in the space-time continium and end up back in 1956!

 

[zuriblue]

If the UK left the EU, what do those who are so keen on it think will happen?

The country is not going to fall through a hole in the space-time continium and end up back in 1956!

As my username suggests I live in Switzerland. Switzerland, of course is not in the EU. However if you trade with the EU you still have to obey the EU rules. You just don't get much of a say in them.

Norway has the same problems - do what the EU says or cut off those export markets.

In reality if the purple and yellow clowns got their way nothing much would change except the UK would have even less influence.