Why don't you cycle?

[Blackpool boy]

I have a fantasticly bright light from the front of my bike - its amazing how far up the road you can see with it. Always have it pointed down a little though as i dont want to blind oncoming traffic - which is more than can be said of modern cars and their LEDS which are dazzling

 

[renegademaster]

Bicycles making you sweaty is a bit overblown. I'm BMI 32 , pretty sedentary and find it rare that I'd get more sweaty than normal unless it's the middle of summer and even then only if I go up a substantial hill.

Hills are also easy as long as you buy a bike with a big lower gear ratios. Too many cheap Halfords/Decathlon bikes have chainrings designed for someone who lives somewhere very flat.

 

[jon0844]

Do the police actually take any notice? I'm tempted to film cars parked on cycle paths - would the police be interested in that?

Yes they do. In fact the police sometimes have signs up to ask for dashcam footage (Met Police in London do) as I expect it's quite easy to prosecute and you've done the donkey work!

Recently some forces have begun reposting footage submitted and stated what punishment was given.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2024 ==

I have a fantasticly bright light from the front of my bike - its amazing how far up the road you can see with it. Always have it pointed down a little though as i dont want to blind oncoming traffic - which is more than can be said of modern cars and their LEDS which are dazzling

Can I ask which one and how much? I have a Cateye 800 lumens light that's pretty good but am tempted to go for 1000 or more - but so many lights aren't as bright as the (often Chinese) maker suggest and even most reviews don't test them properly.

I want a wide spread that allows me to see defects on the road/path in plenty of time.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

I have seen many cyclists in dark clothing

Well it clearly wasn't an issue then, was it

 

[Bikeman78]

My local bus route goes along a main road between 2 cities so takes a lot to get that cancelled. If it gets that bad then I wouldn't have thought anyone would be getting into work where I am

I was clinging to the hope that the main road would be clear. It wasn't! I was still going faster than the cars though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2024 ==

The only people I see expressing opinions on cyclists clothing is drivers in local Facebook groups complaining about riders wearing dark clothing.

Amazing how the same people manage to spot black cars parked on the street at night.

 

[Krokodil]

I have a fantasticly bright light from the front of my bike - its amazing how far up the road you can see with it. Always have it pointed down a little though as i dont want to blind oncoming traffic - which is more than can be said of modern cars and their LEDS which are dazzling

Mine droops a little bit naturally. If some numpty comes at me with full beams on though, I aim it right at them until they dip them. You blind me, I'll blind you. I remember an overnight ride up the A442. The oncoming lorry drivers were all considerate and dipped their headlights as soon as they saw me. The car drivers on the other hand just acted as if I wasn't worth the bother.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Mine droops a little bit naturally. If some numpty comes at me with full beams on though, I aim it right at them until they dip them. You blind me, I'll blind you. I remember an overnight ride up the A442. The oncoming lorry drivers were all considerate and dipped their headlights as soon as they saw me. The car drivers on the other hand just acted as if I wasn't worth the bother.

The lorries were probably controlling their lights manually, whereas the car drivers were probably using those awful auto-dim-dip lights that don't correctly detect a pedestrian or cyclist and so blind them. Until they do they should be banned from all new cars and it should be illegal to use them on the public road.

They're even awful if you're driving a car, because if doing it manually you tend to dip before you round the corner/crest the hill, whereas those automatic ones wait until you have done and so deliver a brief blinding regardless.

Some cyclists, though, don't pay attention to alignment and also blind people.

 

[jon0844]

Amazing how the same people manage to spot black cars parked on the street at night.

Going by the number of photos shown on Facebook of people's cars being hit during the night (and the vehicle that hit them not reporting the accident - hence the request for information or doorbell camera footage etc) I would suggest plenty of people don't see them - and they don't even have to be black cars!

Reflective clothing (as against yellow or orange that doesn't in itself reflect at night) and lights make a lot of difference, as people then catch your eye and are easy to spot.

 

[Bikeman78]

Do the police actually take any notice? I'm tempted to film cars parked on cycle paths - would the police be interested in that?

I have attended court once. The driver admitted his guilt as soon as he saw the footage. Apparently he had only seen still images up to that point. A lot of time could have been saved if the police had shown him the video in the first place.

 

[Krokodil]

The lorries were probably controlling their lights manually, whereas the car drivers were probably using those awful auto-dim-dip lights that don't correctly detect a pedestrian or cyclist and so blind them.

How long have those been a thing? This was back in 2016.

Going by the number of photos shown on Facebook of people's cars being hit during the night (and the vehicle that hit them not reporting the accident - hence the request for information or doorbell camera footage etc) I would suggest plenty of people don't see them - and they don't even have to be black cars!

It would help if people put their side lights on when parked on poorly-lit roads.

 

[jon0844]

How long have those been a thing? This was back in 2016.


It would help if people put their side lights on when parked on poorly-lit roads.

And parked the right way. But sadly we are where we are.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The only people I see expressing opinions on cyclists clothing is drivers in local Facebook groups complaining about riders wearing dark clothing.

I have in the past reminded them that while cyclists must use lights at night, they are free to wear whatever they want.

Personally I stick on a high-vis jacket to keep warm and so nobody can use the "he's wearing dark clothes" excuse if they hit me.

It's not just about removing the opportunity for a driver to "use an excuse" though, is it? If that's your priority rather than self-preservation then it's a "you problem". This combative "us versus them" attitude is unhelpful.
Yes, drivers should do better with their observations (and give cyclists more space than many do- I've often been honked at by vehicles behind me for waiting until it's safe to pass a cyclist) but when on your bike you are vulnerable compared to the 2+ tons of metal you're sharing the road with. Making yourself more visible helps to mitigate the risk of not being seen. "He should have seen me" is just as pointless on your gravestone as the old classic "But I had priority" would be.

 

[Krokodil]

It's not just about removing the opportunity for a driver to "use an excuse" though, is it? If that's your priority rather than self-preservation

If the driver isn’t looking then it doesn‘t matter whether you're dressed like a ninja or dressed like a traffic cone. The only benefit that you get from wearing hivis in that circumstance is that they can't use it as a mitigating argument in court. It won't stop you being hit.

The real solution isn't to change what the victim is wearing, it's to deal with the behaviour of the offender. That means enforcing higher standards of driving, and building safe infrastructure (to remove human error from the question altogether).

 

[yorksrob]

I cycled to work in my twenties for a bit. The traffic put me off (plus going through a pothole and bending my front wheel).

From an exercise/wellbeing point of view I walk a lot, which I think helps to plug the gap of cycling.

 

[Krokodil]

And parked the right way. But sadly we are where we are.

Like this one? Other than the number plate, this Range Rover is completely invisible, unlike the double yellow lines it's parked on - I can see those (not sure why the driver couldn't).
Picture shows a black Range Rover parked on double yellow lines. The car is almost invisible.

 

[Bikeman78]

It's not just about removing the opportunity for a driver to "use an excuse" though, is it? If that's your priority rather than self-preservation then it's a "you problem". This combative "us versus them" attitude is unhelpful.

I see that Krokodil has already beaten me to it. If people are colliding with parked vehicles then there is little chance of them seeing me. I just have to hope that I don't encounter such an idiot. I have been cycling thousands of miles per year all my adult life, so I guess I'm doing okay. I manage to spot cyclists in the dark, no matter what they are wearing so anyone that doesn't probably isn't looking hard enough.

 

[Ediswan]

Like this one? Other than the number plate, this Range Rover is completely invisible, unlike the double yellow lines it's parked on - I can see those (not sure why the driver couldn't). View attachment 171325
Picture shows a black Range Rover parked on double yellow lines. The car is almost invisible.

The front number plate is clear. The car body is silhouetted by the distant street light.

 

[bspahh]

I have a fantasticly bright light from the front of my bike - its amazing how far up the road you can see with it. Always have it pointed down a little though as i dont want to blind oncoming traffic - which is more than can be said of modern cars and their LEDS which are dazzling

Front lights are for you to see things, and for other people to see your light. The problem with really bright lights is that they tend to have a tightly focussed beam. That is great if you are using it as a spot light to look at a specific object. Its also good for marketing, when people pick up a small light in a shop, shine it in their eyes and thing "Ooh thats bright". Its not great if its pointing in the wrong direction. Its pretty bad if it ends up pointing directly at someone so they can't see anything else for a bit.

For a bike light, its not that useful to be able to see things from a great distance. Its much better to be able to see things from a wider angle, such as a driver looking to come out of a side road.

It a particular problem for a rear light, where you only want your light to be seen by someone else. I would much rather that I would be seen by someone coming at an angle - perhaps part way around a corner - than being seen by someone half a mile away. If a driver is directly behind you, then a reflector will also be visible.

 

[Blackpool boy]

Yes they do. In fact the police sometimes have signs up to ask for dashcam footage (Met Police in London do) as I expect it's quite easy to prosecute and you've done the donkey work!

Recently some forces have begun reposting footage submitted and stated what punishment was given.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2024 ==



Can I ask which one and how much? I have a Cateye 800 lumens light that's pretty good but am tempted to go for 1000 or more - but so many lights aren't as bright as the (often Chinese) maker suggest and even most reviews don't test them properly.

I want a wide spread that allows me to see defects on the road/path in plenty of time.

Its these https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/cateye-ampp-200-viz-100-bike-light-set/

As theyre on a rubber adjustable strap theyre easy to manoeuvre whilst youre cycling up/down and they are on a pivot so you can spin 360 if you so wished.

Front lights are for you to see things, and for other people to see your light. The problem with really bright lights is that they tend to have a tightly focussed beam. That is great if you are using it as a spot light to look at a specific object. Its also good for marketing, when people pick up a small light in a shop, shine it in their eyes and thing "Ooh thats bright". Its not great if its pointing in the wrong direction. Its pretty bad if it ends up pointing directly at someone so they can't see anything else for a bit.

For a bike light, its not that useful to be able to see things from a great distance. Its much better to be able to see things from a wider angle, such as a driver looking to come out of a side road.

It a particular problem for a rear light, where you only want your light to be seen by someone else. I would much rather that I would be seen by someone coming at an angle - perhaps part way around a corner - than being seen by someone half a mile away. If a driver is directly behind you, then a reflector will also be visible.

See above - these have a great wide beam and depending on the road im on i can focus it more downwards as im cycling so i can see any objects in front if on uneven ground.

For the price i cant complain

 

[jon0844]

Its these https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/cateye-ampp-200-viz-100-bike-light-set/

Thanks. I have the 800 version and a similar rear light.

I am quite happy with it, but the 1100 and higher lumen lights start to get very expensive. The beam is quite well spread, with the 1100 lumen one actually having two individual lights.

 

[Blackpool boy]

Thanks. I have the 800 version and a similar rear light.

I am quite happy with it, but the 1100 and higher lumen lights start to get very expensive. The beam is quite well spread, with the 1100 lumen one actually having two individual lights.

Wow they must be super bright and i can guess they start getting pricey.

These suit my rising as its along the prom or back lanes normally but with thte darker evenings and using roads they are suitable.. may look into the 800 in the future though

 

[Krokodil]

The front number plate is clear. The car body is silhouetted by the distant street light.

The front numberplate doesn‘t tell you how far the vehicle sticks out into the road, and it's obscured until the last minute by the car parked (legally) behind the camera. As a pedestrian I felt unsafe trying to negotiate all of the parked vehicles (legally parked or otherwise) while other cars passed at speeds excessive for the conditions. But of course - had I been hit - doubtless I would have been blamed for not wearing hivis. The dead can't defend themselves.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If the driver isn’t looking then it doesn‘t matter whether you're dressed like a ninja or dressed like a traffic cone. The only benefit that you get from wearing hivis in that circumstance is that they can't use it as a mitigating argument in court. It won't stop you being hit.

The real solution isn't to change what the victim is wearing, it's to deal with the behaviour of the offender. That means enforcing higher standards of driving, and building safe infrastructure (to remove human error from the question altogether).

I see that Krokodil has already beaten me to it. If people are colliding with parked vehicles then there is little chance of them seeing me. I just have to hope that I don't encounter such an idiot. I have been cycling thousands of miles per year all my adult life, so I guess I'm doing okay. I manage to spot cyclists in the dark, no matter what they are wearing so anyone that doesn't probably isn't looking hard enough.

Thing is, we aren't really talking about the sorts of drivers who are too dangerous to be on the road are we? Some people shouldn't be allowed to operate motor vehicles as they're too irresponsible to be trusted. But short of making the driving test more difficult or making all drivers retake their test every ten years (which is not the worst idea but would be difficult to implement and is off topic in any case) there's not a lot you can do about those people.
Wearing lighter colours at night is a simple thing that everyone can do to reduce risk when interacting with traffic (whether on two wheels or on foot), and it costs nothing. The argument that a small minority of drivers wouldn't see a cyclist even if they were lit up like the Blackpool illuminations, is not an argument that wearing clothing which makes you more visible is pointless.

You should do things that keep you safer, particularly if they come with no downsides. The fact that they won't keep you 100% safe from idiots isn't a reason to disregard them entirely.

 

[Krokodil]

You should do things that keep you safer, particularly if they come with no downsides. The fact that they won't keep you 100% safe from idiots isn't a reason to disregard them entirely.

In respect of helmets, there is some research that suggests that they dehumanise the rider and encourage risk-taking by drivers. I wear one anyway, but it's food for thought

 

[Meerkat]

It does - lights. Which these days are mostly as bright as car lights - nobody uses an Ever Ready set with those flat 4.5V batteries any more.

If that isn't enough for you as a driver to see one, best give up driving or at least have an eye test.

(I do get fed up of stealth cyclists without lights, though!)

Too bright in many cases, particularly for pedestrians on shared paths. The blinking rear lights really make a difference by standing out from all the other red lights.
The problem for drivers can be that its one light, and if its too bright that actually makes it harder to tell how far away it is and at what relative angle it is moving.

ps what happened to pedal reflectors, are they still compulsory for bike sales? They are an eyecatching 'this is a bike' signal.

Amazing how the same people manage to spot black cars parked on the street at night

Unless they are very dirty parked cars have number plates that show up, reflectors, shiny glass, and are relatively big.

This is one of the things where numbers would be the greatest safety improver - getting drivers more used to what they are looking at, what to look out for, and how the lights relate to movement.

 

[dcbwhaley]

The only people I see expressing opinions on cyclists clothing is drivers in local Facebook groups complaining about riders wearing dark clothing.

The counter argument to that is to ask why so many cars are painted black rather than day-glo orange

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Dec 2024 ==

ps what happened to pedal reflectors, are they still compulsory for bike sales? They are an eyecatching 'this is a bike' signal.

I do use reflective cycle clips which have a similar effect

 

[Via Bank]

Ultimately a plastic hat is just a plastic hat & it will only protect you in specific circumstances. Preventing collisions and near misses with infrastructure has been shown to be much more effective than relying on PPE.

I wouldn’t mind a change in mindset on lights . I hate the arms race of high-intensity blinking/strobe lights that get angled into people’s faces. The Germans probably have the right idea with the StVZO regulations & most bicycles being sold with dynamos built in.

 

[Krokodil]

Preventing collisions and near misses with infrastructure has been shown to be much more effective than relying on PPE.

As anyone involved in risk assessing should know. PPE is the last resort when all other means to control the hazard have been exhausted.

 

[Tetragon213]

ps what happened to pedal reflectors, are they still compulsory for bike sales? They are an eyecatching 'this is a bike' signal.

Still officially mandated in Rule 60 of the highway code, but just like all the other laws around bikes, enforcement is virtually non-existent.

 

[noddingdonkey]

I would love to cycle more, but living on a main A road with no cycle infrastructure makes it difficult to use the bike for day to day use, I'm just not confident in that kind of traffic.

What infrastructure we have seems to be an afterthought and not a priority. The so called cycle lanes elsewhere that are marked with paint are full of parked cars. The canal route to town has been shut for two years due to a dangerous retaining wall and a dispute over who needs to fix it.

Even dedicated routes like Greenways are problematic with closures due to TRU works (the Greenway is a former railway which runs parallel to the line line, they needed the extra space for the work) overrunning and unsuitable/badly signed diversion routes. Getting accurate information on what is shut is impossible.

I bought a folding e bike that I can throw in the car and take to a suitable off road route, but it feels like that defeats the object a bit.