Why don't e-tickets offer compostage?

[NER1621]

Disliking a word for being of French origin is simply par for the course among some people sadly.

I’m not sure if you think that is my motivation for not liking “compostage” but if so, you’re not correct. Someone else mentioned carnets, and that’s both a loan word and a ticketing concept I’d like to see more of in the UK. I had hoped that online ticket purchasing methods would at some point offer an option to buy multiple tickets of the same type for a specific journey in a single transaction (e.g. 10 off-peak singles Darlington to York) and automatically apply a discount to that purchase. Such tickets would, of course, then need to be validated in advance of individual use. Instead we got the useless “flexi-season” product.

 

[redreni]

I’m not sure if you think that is my motivation for not liking “compostage” but if so, you’re not correct. Someone else mentioned carnets, and that’s both a loan word and a ticketing concept I’d like to see more of in the UK. I had hoped that online ticket purchasing methods would at some point offer an option to buy multiple tickets of the same type for a specific journey in a single transaction (e.g. 10 off-peak singles Darlington to York) and automatically apply a discount to that purchase. Such tickets would, of course, then need to be validated in advance of individual use. Instead we got the useless “flexi-season” product.

That'd be nice, but from the industry's point of view the difference in cost between selling 10 tickets in 10 transactions instead of in 1 transaction is not very great if the sale is made online. Not compared to the days when they were having to operate multiple ticket office windows at every station to keep up with peak demand for tickets (which is the pressure carnets were meant to ease).

The faff of doing 10 online transactions rather than 1 might represent a very considerable time cost for the passenger, but the railway has largely externalised that cost.

 

[NER1621]

I was rather thinking of it as a loyalty reward for regular passengers who travel less frequently than everyday and so don’t benefit from the current season ticket pricing regime.

So do I take it that you think all season tickets should be abolished? By your logic making commuters buy a ticket each day online - although a pain in the backside for the commuter - now no longer incurs the costs to the railway of them all trying to doing so at physical ticket offices, and that is what incentivised the industry to offer a discount for buying bulk travel in advance?

EDIT Sorry, this is drifting OT.

 

[smsm1]

I was rather thinking of it as a loyalty reward for regular passengers who travel less frequently than everyday and so don’t benefit from the current season ticket pricing regime.

I agree a loyalty scheme would be nice. Though you could argue that you could also implement that through the simplification of Railcards such that there is a Railcard for everyone for the whole country.

 

[Krokodil]

Someone else mentioned carnets, and that’s both a loan word and a ticketing concept I’d like to see more of in the UK. I had hoped that online ticket purchasing methods would at some point offer an option to buy multiple tickets of the same type for a specific journey in a single transaction (e.g. 10 off-peak singles Darlington to York) and automatically apply a discount to that purchase. Such tickets would, of course, then need to be validated in advance of individual use. Instead we got the useless “flexi-season” product.

Carnets are available in some parts of the UK:

Multiflex | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

TfW's Multiflex gets you 12 singles for the price of 5 day returns. Quite useful for passengers with unusual journey patterns (night shift workers, those who travel back by another mode etc.)

 

[smsm1]

The TfW Multiflex being valid for 3 months means a single a week or return a fortnight and it's still worthwhile. One of the issues I've had with flexiseason tickets in the past was that you had to travel 3-4 times a week (on the route I looked at) to be economical. It was cheaper to buy daily tickets as I was travelling only 2-3 days per week.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Carnets were more widely available before the Flexi Season ticket was introduced.

 

[island]

I think there's a trial happening now where LU gateline staff have been given handheld readers, but it's only at a few stations (and not the ones you'd hope).

I understand this to relate to readers for Aztec codes rather than ITSO smartcards.

 

[Haywain]

I understand this to relate to readers for Aztec codes rather than ITSO smartcards.

Thats correct, the gate lines will happily read most National Rail smart cards.

 

[redreni]

So do I take it that you think all season tickets should be abolished?

Short answer no.

Long answer would need another thread.

 

[TUC]

That'd be nice, but from the industry's point of view the difference in cost between selling 10 tickets in 10 transactions instead of in 1 transaction is not very great if the sale is made online. Not compared to the days when they were having to operate multiple ticket office windows at every station to keep up with peak demand for tickets (which is the pressure carnets were meant to ease).

The faff of doing 10 online transactions rather than 1 might represent a very considerable time cost for the passenger, but the railway has largely externalised that cost.

I would have there is a benefit for the industry through in a passenger having committed to making 10 journeys by rail, albeit spread out over several weeks. A discount for that would be particularly attractive for passengers whom are in the office infrequently, and for whom there is little difference in cost between travelling to work by rail or car, even allowing for parking.

 

[RJ]

I would be supportive of being able to view scanning history, as a passenger.

I travel between London and Cardiff frequently, but there's no pattern to the travel. I buy Super Off Peak returns, but sometimes on the return leg it turns out I have to travel at 5 or 6am so I then buy Anytime split tickets. As this is almost weekly, I end up with a lot of return portions of Super Off Peak tickets and it gets hard to keep track of which return have been used and which are still valid.

 

[yorkie]

I would be supportive of being able to view scanning history, as a passenger.

I travel between London and Cardiff frequently, but there's no pattern to the travel. I buy Super Off Peak returns, but sometimes on the return leg it turns out I have to travel at 5 or 6am so I then buy Anytime split tickets. As this is almost weekly, I end up with a lot of return portions of Super Off Peak tickets and it gets hard to keep track of which return have been used and which are still valid.

In the meantime, anyone who requires the data for a ticket they purchased is entitled to request the information from the relevant train company.

Train companies probably won't want to make this easily accessible, however if they recieved a lot of requests of this nature, they would perhaps be more likely to consider allowing people to do this for themselves, rather than create work for the company with manual requests.

 

[Haywain]

In the meantime, anyone who requires the data for a ticket they purchased is entitled to request the information from the relevant train company.

Could a retailer make this available? Do Transplit have access to the scan records for eTickets?

 

[island]

Could a retailer make this available? Do Transplit have access to the scan records for eTickets?

The request would need to be made to the data controller. I think that's the retailer but am prepared to be corrected.

Anyone else with access to the data would be a data processor.

 

[Haywain]

The request would need to be made to the data controller. I think that's the retailer but am prepared to be corrected.

You are misunderstanding what I was asking. It wasn't where can you get the information, it was whether there might be a simple way of making it available. So, does a retailer have access to scan records that could be linked and made available to a customer through their account and the specific ticket details? In current circumstances, I don't think it is clear where you would go to get the scan records for a ticket/journey across multiple TOCs.

 

[MrJeeves]

The retailer has access for the purpose of determining if tickets have been used for refund eligibility.

Accessing the scan records has associated costs, however.

 

[Haywain]

The retailer has access for the purpose of determining if tickets have been used for refund eligibility.

So, to find out if a ticket has been used, apply for a refund?

Accessing the scan records has associated costs, however.

But theoretically, linking the scan records to the ticket and customer account is possible?

 

[Adam Williams]

But theoretically, linking the scan records to the ticket is possible?

Yes