Why does NR have to completely shut Reading?

[43021HST]

Why does National Rail have to completely shut Reading for Refurbishment, why cant they do whats happening at Stratford and do the job gradually. You would have thought that the period of time they are shutting it is one of the busiest times of the year, with people trying to get to their families for christmas and shopping in the January Sales. It doesnt make any sense. Could someone please explain National Rail's logic.

 

[Zoe]

Why does National Rail have to completely shut Reading for Refurbishment, why cant they do whats happening at Stratford and do the job gradually.

Control of the signals is getting transferred from Reading PSB to the new Thames Valley Signalling Centre at Didcot. Since all the signals in the Reading area are controlled by Reading PSB they is no option but to completely close the line.

 

[Greenback]

The logic is that the work will be completed with less disruption overall by concentrating it into one blockade. Christmas and New Year is usually chosen for these sorts of shuidowns as commuter travel is much reduced at this time. Just before Christmas is very busy, but between Christmas and New Year it is much less so.

 

[MCR247]

Why does National Rail have to completely shut Reading for Refurbishment, why cant they do whats happening at Stratford and do the job gradually. You would have thought that the period of time they are shutting it is one of the busiest times of the year, with people trying to get to their families for christmas and shopping in the January Sales. It doesnt make any sense. Could someone please explain National Rail's logic.

National Rail? Or network rail? Surely it would be better to do everything at once, rather than spreading the disruption out?

 

[route:oxford]

Why does National Rail have to completely shut Reading for Refurbishment, why cant they do whats happening at Stratford and do the job gradually. You would have thought that the period of time they are shutting it is one of the busiest times of the year, with people trying to get to their families for christmas and shopping in the January Sales. It doesnt make any sense. Could someone please explain National Rail's logic.

The Winterval period is one of the quietest times on the railway - at least for their "bread & butter" ie the daily commuter. The line is only going to be closed for 2 normal working days.

25th Winterval Day
26th Boxing Day
27th Bank Holiday in lieu of Winterval Day
28th Bank Holiday in lieu of Boxing Day
29th Ordinary Working day
30th Ordinary Working day
31st Hogmany - Line reopens

So you'll have no probs actually getting to your friends or familes before Winterval Day, but it's the coming back afterwards that you might find a bit sticky. There'll be plenty of buses though - and the closure has been widely publicised for nearly 2 years so most people will be organised.

National Rail? Or network rail? Surely it would be better to do everything at once, rather than spreading the disruption out?

Can you imagine the disruption if you spread out a bridge replacement?

Just take it down this weekend, and put the new one up next weekend...

 

[ainsworth74]

Can you imagine the disruption if you spread out a bridge replacement?

Just take it down this weekend, and put the new one up next weekend...

Don't be giving NR ideas

Though seriously I swear that's what they must have been doing at the Goole swing bridge recently!

 

[PhilipW]

The Winterval period is one of the quietest times on the railway

25th Winterval Day

"Winterval Day" ???????????????????????

Oh, You mean Christmas Day.

I think you have been reading too many Railway Press Releases and have forgotten how to speak in plain English.

 

[Dennis]

Thought Winterval was the name coined by Birmingham council in the late nineties for the period from halloween to Chinese new year (therefore including Diwali, Ramadan, Eid, Hanukkah as well as Christmas. The idea was to provide a series of inclusive, interfaith events promoting community harmony etc. Nothing specifically to do with Christmas, but no doubt twisted by the tabloids to a different meaning.

 

[TheBigD]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winterval

 

[route:oxford]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winterval

It's a brilliant term, much better than the bland "Festive Season", or "Seasons Greetings" message on a card.

The cards I send this year will have a snow-scene from last December in the Chilterns and once again have the phrase "Have a Wonderful Winterval" as the printed message.

 

[Dennis]

The closure is of course good news for otherwise potentially bored bashers, HSTs taking the long way round, something to fill a couple of days

 

[yorkie]

Nothing specifically to do with Christmas, but no doubt twisted by the tabloids to a different meaning.

Ah yes, the Christian-dominated tabloids who moan at anyone who doesn't constantly and exclusively use the term Christmas to describe the time of year that this country traditionally called Yule, before the Christians demanded we change to suit them! Oh, the irony!

I'm sure Death would have some interesting thoughts on this subject

. Could someone please explain National Rail's logic.

National Rail is a customer-friendly name for ATOC!

And their logic of not running trains through Reading while Network Rail rebuilds it, is impeccable

 

[Old Timer]

Getting back onto the topic subject.

Signalling commissioning is a time consuming and complex operation which requires a complete blockage on trains so that all signal, track circuits and signal routes can be checked.

A full blown commissioning such as this will require the testing of every possible route against any route conflicts, thus proving that the system functions correctly and there has been no error in the design or the installation which would lead to an accident or collision occurring.

There will also be a long changeover period as new signals are powered up and the old signals powered down and removed or covered up.

These jobs cannot be undertaken with trains running, and if they are staged into weekend Possessions the costs and the duration of the testing and commissioning will increase substantially.

To say that Christmas is the busiest time of year is to contradict the popular argument that summer is the busiest time. There will be other people who would argue Bank Holidays are the busiest time.

The fact is that the Railway is pretty much deserted between Christmas Eve and the first working day after New Year, with most people staying at home or travelling locally to their area of residence.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The closure is of course good news for otherwise potentially bored bashers, HSTs taking the long way round, something to fill a couple of days

Crossover at Theale too! Guess where I am over the Christmas/New Year (DEFINATELY NOT WINTERVAL) period?

There looks to be no other way around it. I think to have one massive closure, at a time such as is proposed, is better than either a) doing it in mid-January when everyone's back at work, or b) doing over weekends, taking 60x longer and making everything a hell of a load more complex...

 

[Ferret]

The fact is that the Railway is pretty much deserted between Christmas Eve and the first working day after New Year, with most people staying at home or travelling locally to their area of residence.

No it bloody isn't!!! Try working a train between Christmas and New Year Mr OT! Absolutely rammed to the rafters!

Howvever, Klambert - this work does need to be done some time! Do it at Christmas, do it in mid-January - whichever way, somebody is inconvenienced! We just have to deal with it I'm afraid! Like OT says, while this goes on, you can't run trains. Of course, the railway could always abandon work like this.....and then we'll all pay the price!

 

[dk1]

In my 25 years railway career i have found that we never run enough trains on the 27th & 28th of December. Often a reduced service where year after year the control log reads 'more passengers than capacity' or 'full & standing'.

 

[TheBigD]

...The fact is that the Railway is pretty much deserted between Christmas Eve and the first working day after New Year, with most people staying at home or travelling locally to their area of residence.

Whilst some commuter routes and early morning/late evening trains are quiet, it is busy during the leisure/shopping times.

December the 27th is always a bloody nightmare with trains rammed solid as there's been nothing for 2 days!!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In my 25 years railway career i have found that we never run enough trains on the 27th & 28th of December. Often a reduced service where year after year the control log reads 'more passengers than capacity' or 'full & standing'.

Cross Country reduced the service last year despite what everyone said would happen. Some short notice strengthening did happen but it was not enough.

 

[43021HST]

May I point out that during the 1960s, the WCML was kept open during the time it was modernised, and that was the entire line not just one station, surely with the technology today we would be capable of such a thing, but I soppose its the health and safety busy bodies not allowing it.

Also sorry about the national rail, network rail thing, it was a bit of a mistake to say the least. Imagine refurbishing Reading using call centre workers!

 

[Old Timer]

May I point out that during the 1960s, the WCML was kept open during the time it was modernised, and that was the entire line not just one station, surely with the technology today we would be capable of such a thing, but I soppose its the health and safety busy bodies not allowing it.

Also sorry about the national rail, network rail thing, it was a bit of a mistake to say the least. Imagine refurbishing Reading using call centre workers!

I am sorry old chap, but as one who lived through that time, that is not correct.

Sections of the line were closed as the new signalling was commissioned. In any case it was then not MAS to MAS but mechanical Block signalling to MAS, slightly different.

I have never been involved with any commissioning which did not require a blockage. For example when West Hampstead PSB was commissioned the Midland Main Line was closed and Class 1 trains diverted to Euston for each of the stages. I recall periods when the Slows were open for ticket working, and then the Fasts but there was a period when everything was closed.

You simply cannot commission a station such as Reading with trains running.

 

[starrymarkb]

I think you'll find that a lot of stuff was re-routed while the work took place via the GW into Paddington - also things weren't quite so intensively worked in those days

 

[TomBoyRacer]

I'm not sure of the exact details but York was kept partially open while resignalling in the station was going on as this photo proves
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pinzac55/3778999406/
During the 3 day commisioning the area was worked by handsignalling but I dare say that parts where probably off limit while certain signalling functions where tested. Not nice to have trains running through the area you're trying to test

 

[YorkshireRider]

No it bloody isn't!!! Try working a train between Christmas and New Year Mr OT! Absolutely rammed to the rafters!

The 27th yes is very busy, but the other days the trains are half empty

 

[imagination]

Also, the works as a whole ARE being spread out. The station will remain open while all the track layout changes are going on. It's only for the signalling changes that it is being closed.

 

[robertclark125]

It's a bit like what happened at Edinburgh Waverley a couple of years ago. The station was closed for one whole weekend to allow the resignalling to take place, but the whole project to alter the track layout and create new platforms, which required resignalling, was being undertaken while the station was open to traffic.

 

[MCR247]

I'm not sure of the exact details but York was kept partially open while resignalling in the station was going on as this photo proves
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pinzac55/3778999406/
During the 3 day commisioning the area was worked by handsignalling but I dare say that parts where probably off limit while certain signalling functions where tested. Not nice to have trains running through the area you're trying to test

Are you sure? The new signals seem to be working etc so who says they just didn't have time to remove the old signals? There would be no particular rush would there?

 

[TomBoyRacer]

Are you sure? The new signals seem to be working etc so who says they just didn't have time to remove the old signals? There would be no particular rush would there?

In the case of the photo above the new signals are the ones bagged up. The gantries holding the old signals where felled to make way for the catenery. Also in most cases the new signals where planted behind the old so would have been obscured. I actually don't know if the line on the left was being signalled normally on the day the shot was taken or was handsignalled. maybe OT might know.

 

[MCR247]

Sorry, I thought the ones on the gantry were the new ones

 

[Old Timer]

In the case of the photo above the new signals are the ones bagged up. The gantries holding the old signals where felled to make way for the catenery. Also in most cases the new signals where planted behind the old so would have been obscured. I actually don't know if the line on the left was being signalled normally on the day the shot was taken or was handsignalled. maybe OT might know.

Sorry Old Boy, 21 years ago, cannot remember what the arrangements at York were.

The DMU could be a test unit, which was the way that signalling was commissioned in those days. You ran a unit through the route to prove track circuits and TD stepping.

These days we put men at each location case and we drop the track circuits as required. Very boring for the testing teams, and very manpower hungry, and especially unpleasant during a commissioning in winter, aka, Seamer Jct.

 

[The Barlow Boy]

Changing over signalling from old to new whilst keeping the trains running can be fraught. I was reminded of this after running into Gordon Pettit this morning and remembering his statements after the Clapham Crash.

 

[PinzaC55]

Regarding my photos of the York resignalling it must be remembered that it really only consisted of "doing it as cheaply as possible" so they stripped out as many lines and sidings as they possibly could and resignalled what was left.Of course they didn't anticipate the rise in railway traffic and as a result they've recently announced that an "additional track" is to be relaid from Holgate into the station.A bizarre feature of this is that they wish to have a new signal at the south end of one of the platforms and have asked for planning permission in respect of the station's Listed status? It's always been my understanding that if the railway need a structure for operational purposes they didn't need planning permission.
In my photo of the signal gantry the crossovers underneath it had already been taken out of use and the associated Theatre indicators had been removed.