Why does Liverpool Central have despatchers on the platform?

[Peter0124]

Would be interesting to compare the passenger numbers of Liverpool Central with Glasgow Central or Queen Street low levels, but cannot be done as the latter two are counted as part of the main station. Liverpool probably much busier anyway.

 

[dannypye9999]

A station which has 13,000,000 passengers a year doesn't need platform staff?

Hmm.

London Underground stations have platform staff doing exactly the same job the staff at Liverpool Central do.

As for why, Liverpool Central has 13 million people going through it a year

13 million? Are you sure. That's more than nearby Liverpool Lime Street and over a third of Birmingham New Street (30 million)

 

[43066]

As someone who uses passenger assist Platform staff are always good to see, even if they have to run for the ramp,

Absolutely - and it’s a sorry state of affairs when we see threads discussing how assistance users are being told station staff are too busy to assist them at some locations, so it’s surprising to see other threads such as this one, where some posters actively want to see other parts of the network de-staffed.

But not on cost of operation. If it could be made less of a money pit, other aspects of the area's public transport might be improved. Or they might just manage to afford to paint some of the station ironwork before it rusts to nothing.

“Moneypit” is a loaded way of describing it, though. Perhaps in reality we have simply understaffed many other parts of the network, and the Merseyrail/London Overground model is actually preferable? It also isn’t the case that removing staff will necessarily lead to other areas improving, it’ll just be a tiny (in the scheme of things) saving that most likely will no longer spent on the system, and will make no appreciable difference to anything, other than potentially worsening the service.

It never had them in the past, and now guards are effectively just on board dispatchers it doesn't need them now either. Dispatch doesn't need three pairs of eyes, two is quite enough.

Sometimes dispatch does benefit from several pairs of eyes actually and, in any case, the staff concerned aren’t dispatchers.

 

[JBuchananGB]

Liverpool Central is a busy place. I arrived there last Sunday on a crush loaded 4-car 777 from Southport, which terminated there. Long tailbacks to get anywhere near the escalators. Good to have platform staff to assist. Returning later with northbound Northern Line trains departing from platforms 1 & 2 alternately, and no southbound services at all, the platform staff were most helpful to make sure passengers boarded the right train.

 

[390112A]

13 million? Are you sure. That's more than nearby Liverpool Lime Street and over a third of Birmingham New Street (30 million)

Liverpool Central is really the main station of Liverpool city centre for locals who use the Northern and Wirral lines to journey to town this is a significant amount of population, Lime Street is more of a Long distance hub and will have fewer local journeys due to a lower frequency.

They certainly do during the evening rush hour. But I can't recall ever noticing LU staff performing that role at other times. (Other than that, for the Elizabeth line, round about the time of the final late night trains, I've seen staff on the platform warning people that there will be no more trains)

Moorfields also has a member of staff who makes announcements on Northern line platform 2 however as mentioned above similar to LU this is only during the Peak hours 1600-1800 (or during busy periods when events such as football or races are on).

Worth noting that the new lift has made issues worse by blocking even more of the platform. The place needs ripping out and doing again more like St Pancras Low Level, ideally before anything expensive is built on top.

Yes I tend to agree, Liverpool Underground stations could do with being rebuilt as they generally appear to be falling apart due to age.

I don't think the additional staff at Liverpool Central are required. It looks more like a job creation scheme. It is overstaffing and quite honestly pointless and is not value for money. Furthermore some of us line to travel independently without needless interactions.

You may be capable and confident enough to travel independently, however there are plenty of people that are not capable of doing this for who the interactions with staff are essential for them to be able to travel.

Returning later with northbound Northern Line trains departing from platforms 1 & 2 alternately, and no southbound services at all, the platform staff were most helpful to make sure passengers boarded the right train.

Exactly this all is good when services are running as they should be but what happens when disruption occurs and people don't know what to do. Making platform announcements is essential in this case to provide passengers with the information to complete their journey.

 

[urbophile]

Latest annual passenger numbers:

Liverpool Central 12.6m
Victoria (LU) 59.6m

There are over 40 tube stations busier than Liverpool Central. The closest to Liverpool Central's usage is Covent Garden, where the platforms can only be accessed by lifts or a staircase with 193 steps.

What are the figures for the Met line platforms at Baker Street? That is the closest equivalent on LU to Liverpool Central: a mixture of terminus and through running, with suburban rather than city centre traffic forming the majority. And bear in mind that most central LU stations have a much higher frequency of trains than Merseyrail's 4tph per branch – which in the case of the (Merseyrail) Northern line means a maximum of 12 tph at Central. More trains mean passengers are hoovered up (well, not literally, hopefully) from platforms before they become dangerously overcrowded. Try standing on Central platforms 1 and 2 when there has been a cancellation (or two) in rush hour.

 

[Tetchytyke]

13 million? Are you sure. That's more than nearby Liverpool Lime Street and over a third of Birmingham New Street (30 million)

Yes, quite sure. It’s still not recovered to pre-Covid levels either, when it was about 16 million.

The busiest tube stations are obviously a lot busier but that doesn’t change the fact that Liverpool Central is a very busy station and the Northern Line platforms especially aren’t wide enough for the numbers.

 

[Krokodil]

What are the figures for the Met line platforms at Baker Street? That is the closest equivalent on LU to Liverpool Central: a mixture of terminus and through running, with suburban rather than city centre traffic forming the majority. And bear in mind that most central LU stations have a much higher frequency of trains than Merseyrail's 4tph per branch – which in the case of the (Merseyrail) Northern line means a maximum of 12 tph at Central. More trains mean passengers are hoovered up (well, not literally, hopefully) from platforms before they become dangerously overcrowded. Try standing on Central platforms 1 and 2 when there has been a cancellation (or two) in rush hour.

The 10 platforms at Baker Street between them handled 28 million in 2019, compared with the 16 million between the three platforms at Liverpool Central. Not sure how these are distributed between lines at each station, but if it's evenly spread then each Liverpool Central platform handles twice the number of passengers as each Baker Street platform.

 

[urbophile]

The 10 platforms at Baker Street between them handled 28 million in 2019, compared with the 16 million between the three platforms at Liverpool Central. Not sure how these are distributed between lines at each station, but if it's evenly spread then each Liverpool Central platform handles twice the number of passengers as each Baker Street platform.

I'd be surprised if there was an equal balance: I'd expect the Circle/H&C, Jubilee and Bakerloo between them to be proportionately busier than the Met. But that proves my point. As does the fact that Central handles more passengers than Lime Street despite the latter having more platforms and more space.

 

[Djgr]

So I think that the overall conclusion is that this is a perfectly reasonable thing to have in place.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So I think that the overall conclusion is that this is a perfectly reasonable thing to have in place.

Perhaps in some peoples' eyes. I remain unconvinced that due to the obstruction they cause they aren't actively negative, and at best a profligate waste of money.

 

[Djgr]

Perhaps in some peoples' eyes. I remain unconvinced that due to the obstruction they cause they aren't actively negative, and at best a profligate waste of money.

Yes, I am basing my statement on a summary of the views stated rather than one.

 

[urbophile]

Perhaps in some peoples' eyes. I remain unconvinced that due to the obstruction they cause they aren't actively negative, and at best a profligate waste of money.

How do they cause obstruction? At the busiest times they do a useful job directing passengers to the nearest escalators and helping to minimise the congestion which occurs as long queues of arriving and departing passengers get in each other's way. At less busy times they are on hand to give advice and support.

The station as a whole needs a complete redesign and rebuild. Until then, it's not a waste of money to employ staff to make it work.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How do they cause obstruction?

By standing in the way of where they want to go, e.g. the lifts or Wirral escalator.

At the busiest times they do a useful job directing passengers to the nearest escalators

Which are clearly visible.

and helping to minimise the congestion which occurs as long queues of arriving and departing passengers get in each other's way.

They make it worse in my view.

At less busy times they are on hand to give advice and support.

That is true, but for that alone they aren't good value for money in my eyes.

The station as a whole needs a complete redesign and rebuild. Until then, it's not a waste of money to employ staff to make it work.

It works less well than it did before they were there in my experience.

 

[gray1404]

Also, why are guards on Merseyrail checking tickets when they are not revenue trained, able to sell tickets or issue a PF. Another pointless forced interaction.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also, why are guards on Merseyrail checking tickets when they are not revenue trained, able to sell tickets or issue a PF. Another pointless forced interaction.

Not one did so when I used the system a few times over Christmas. But it's a visual deterrent even if all they can do is ask them to get off and buy one. A bit like the gateline at Bletchley is usually not staffed by RPIs so they can't do anything if you don't have a ticket bar ask you nicely to buy one.

 

[gray1404]

Not one did so when I used the system a few times over Christmas. But it's a visual deterrent even if all they can do is ask them to get off and buy one. A bit like the gateline at Bletchley is usually not staffed by RPIs so they can't do anything if you don't have a ticket bar ask you nicely to buy one.

Yeah they have even issued them with ticket stampers that show the date, unique ID of the clipper and the trains headcode and clips a tiny round hole in the ticket. Not helpful having a day saver clipped!

I guess they want people to assume they will be checked on most journeys.

 

[Bow Fell]

Not content with various threads on the forum concerning understaffing on the railway, we now have complaints about overstaffing.

Staff daring to ask to check your ticket or god forbid daring to ask if you need help or assistance?

If you don’t want assistance or to be directed to a lift. All that you need to say is “No thank you, I can manage”. There is nothing forced about it. Not every encounter with railway staff is or has to be a confrontation. Just be normal.

Staff are on hand to prevent accidents, especially those with suitcases and escalators which can someone be a bad combination.

I’ve lost count of the threads over the years about “no staff to be seen” “no staff on hand to help” “no one to offer assistance”.

This forum, eh?!

 

[Llandudno]

Let’s be thankful that the staff at Liverpool Central have a slightly more passenger friendly approach than some of those patrolling the platforms on platforms 13/14 at Manchester Piccadilly…

 

[Bletchleyite]

Let’s be thankful that the staff at Liverpool Central have a slightly more passenger friendly approach than some of those patrolling the platforms on platforms 13/14 at Manchester Piccadilly…

Well, there is certainly that! Though that seems to me to have been toned down a lot of late.

 

[Llandudno]

Well, there is certainly that! Though that seems to me to have been toned down a lot of late.

That’s good to hear, I usually try and change at/use Oxford Road as it’s preferable to using Piccadilly platforms 13/14 - the pubs near Oxford Road are better too!

 

[mrd269697]

So a couple of points. Railway enthusiasts tend to be more indpendant when using a railway station. You don’t work on the railways, you’ll be surprised what the general public can be like at times, they ask questions many on this forum would think a baby would know the answer to. And it happens every day.

I can’t say I have ever had anyone moan to me personally about overstaffing. Unless you are a disgruntled LCR taxpayer then I’d say you have no say in Merseyrail’s staffing levels. Even then, I would say that yes, it is subsidised, but people like having someone around, you might not but you are in the minority. A lot who enjoy the railways are on the autism spectrum (like myself) and cannot comprehend another viewpoint - for example you find it easy to navigate a railway station (as do I) but are unable to grasp that some people get to a station and haven’t a clue where they’re going or what train they’re after. Trust me, it’s a lot of people. They need people there. Therefore it is heavily staffed and I think that is a good thing.

On the other hand why not make loads of them redundant and then get them claiming UC? Defeats the object if your point is about saving public money.

It angers me people critisising others having jobs.

I agree the ticketing is out of date and that is getting looked into, at some point you can tap in and tap out or buy a regular ticket with cash if you require, though it is taking longer than anticipated. Other than that I think some of the opinions on this thread are out of order.

 

[Krokodil]

I agree the ticketing is out of date and that is getting looked into, at some point you can tap in and tap out or buy a regular ticket with cash if you require, though it is taking longer than anticipated. Other than that I think some of the opinions on this thread are out of order.

When I spoke with someone senior at Merseyrail they reckoned that we should see something within a year.

 

[GusB]

for example you find it easy to navigate a railway station (as do I) but are unable to grasp that some people get to a station and haven’t a clue where they’re going or what train they’re after. Trust me, it’s a lot of people. They need people there.

This is a very valid point. Most people will take the ability to navigate a busy station for granted, but there are those who will find it to be very daunting. My late mother was wary about having to change buses or trains because she was afraid that she'd make a mistake and end up in the wrong place.

Having staff around to answer basic questions isn't a bad thing and it really annoys me when certain people dismiss their presence as being unnecessary simply because they are able to navigate the system without any issues.

 

[gray1404]

This thread really has proved food for thought.ans I would rather be open and transparent. It's caused me, as one of the people who has claimed there are too many staff to have a think about why I hold my views.

I think it's fair to say as a rail enthusiast I am able to navigate my travels more independently,.but also such skills of being able to travel and being encouraged to do it independently are something that I was encouraged to do so from a young age. On the rare occasions I have instigated staff contact when it has been necessary, this tends to be for more vital reasons like needed rerouting or a taxi to avoid being left stranded, and as such I've not always had positive interactions if I've not been afforded my rights. Likewise I'm more likely to travel on more tickets and again I've been told many times my tickets are not valid when they actually are.

Furthermore I travel a lot across the network nationwide including in the South East. I therefore notice the contrast when I see small talk on Merseyrail and it's not my personal preference. Finally there are ways of being able to travel with some luggage and still safely and confidently navigate escalators and ticket.barriers if you are sensible.

 

[fozzy33]

I find Merseyrail grossly overstaffed in general, to be honest.

Metrolink of course is the other extreme and so suffers from antisocial behaviour

Hmm, could these sentences be linked??

 

[stuu]

The closest London comparison is the EL station at Paddington - that has lots of staff to clear the terminating trains as well, so the OP's point is fundamentally wrong

 

[Djgr]

So a couple of points. Railway enthusiasts tend to be more indpendant when using a railway station. You don’t work on the railways, you’ll be surprised what the general public can be like at times, they ask questions many on this forum would think a baby would know the answer to. And it happens every day.

I can’t say I have ever had anyone moan to me personally about overstaffing. Unless you are a disgruntled LCR taxpayer then I’d say you have no say in Merseyrail’s staffing levels. Even then, I would say that yes, it is subsidised, but people like having someone around, you might not but you are in the minority. A lot who enjoy the railways are on the autism spectrum (like myself) and cannot comprehend another viewpoint - for example you find it easy to navigate a railway station (as do I) but are unable to grasp that some people get to a station and haven’t a clue where they’re going or what train they’re after. Trust me, it’s a lot of people. They need people there. Therefore it is heavily staffed and I think that is a good thing.

On the other hand why not make loads of them redundant and then get them claiming UC? Defeats the object if your point is about saving public money.

It angers me people critisising others having jobs.

I agree the ticketing is out of date and that is getting looked into, at some point you can tap in and tap out or buy a regular ticket with cash if you require, though it is taking longer than anticipated. Other than that I think some of the opinions on this thread are out of order.

There are clearly people on this forum who are inherently anti everything Merseyrail.

As somebody who actually lives locally and uses the services regularly I speak as I find, which is that, in my opinion, it is one of the best train operators and, in conjunction with "Merseytravel" shows what can be achieved where services are managed locally to meet the specific requirements of a particular community.

 

[43066]

A lot who enjoy the railways are on the autism spectrum (like myself) and cannot comprehend another viewpoint - for example you find it easy to navigate a railway station (as do I) but are unable to grasp that some people get to a station and haven’t a clue where they’re going or what train they’re after. Trust me, it’s a lot of people. They need people there. Therefore it is heavily staffed and I think that is a good thing.

Thanks for this - a most insightful posting.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jan 2025 ==

There are clearly people on this forum who are inherently anti everything Merseyrail.

As somebody who actually lives locally and uses the services regularly I speak as I find, which is that, in my opinion, it is one of the best train operators and, in conjunction with "Merseytravel" shows what can be achieved where services are managed locally to meet the specific requirements of a particular community.

Certainly their zero tolerance to people who are obviously drunk, and towards anti social behaviour in general, is commendable and sorely lacking on many other parts of the UK network.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Certainly their zero tolerance to people who are obviously drunk, and towards anti social behaviour in general, is commendable and sorely lacking on many other parts of the UK network.

I don't think there is anything commendable about the way they have been documented multiple times for refusing travel to people who they think are drunk but in fact have a coordination disability.