Why Does GWR Think That a 2 Coach Train is Adequate on the Weymouth Run?

[Envoy]

Saturday 12 July and GWR seem to think that it is adequate to run a 2 coach train on the Weymouth run on a very hot summer Saturday? Is this the best they can do?

Realtime Trains | 2O72 0655 Cheltenham Spa to Weymouth | 12/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 2O72 0655 departure from Cheltenham Spa to Weymouth on 12/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[jamesst]

I dont know the area to be honest but maybe that's all the stock available?

 

[Timetraveller]

Even worse there are no trains on Sunday 13th between Weymouth and Westbury. All cancelled with a do not travel issued by GWR due to shortage of train crew.

 

[Snow1964]

Basically overuse of a limited number of 33+ year old trains, with not enough spares. Because they are old and worn, they require more maintenance and spare parts and they simply cannot repair them fast enough because they diagram more than they can keep serviceable.

Yesterday (Friday) started badly with first train from Weymouth cancelled, and then some other trains down to 2cars. Actually first train started about over 2.5 hours into the journey (at Bristol) and that is the other problem, trains are started from locations 2.5+ hours away from their depot with no spare units at those locations, and no way to get a replacement there in a timely manner.

Don't get me wrong, the maintenance teams do a great job, but without the long term resources they simply cannot keep up with providing enough units of right length in right places.


Coming back to today, a busy summer weekend day, ideal day to go to the beach, get units like 165 133 a 2coach unit build for local trains in Thames Valley 35 years ago being pressed into a Weymouth run due to lack of spare trains, total unsuitable, but it satisfies those in the train ran and is better than no train ideaology.

 

[The exile]

Coming back to today, a busy summer weekend day, ideal day to go to the beach, get units like 165 133 a 2coach unit build for local trains in Thames Valley 35 years ago being pressed into a Weymouth run due to lack of spare trains, total unsuitable, but it satisfies those in the train ran and is better than no train ideaology.

More than that, satisfies the “cost of everything, value of nothing” financial bean counters in London (Whitehall) and elsewhere who over recent decades have been systematically destroying what we used to consider a civilised society in favour of greedy individualism.

 

[Snow1964]

It used to be the case that those schedulling trains day or two before would check for exceptional weather, and act accordingly. But not in GWR land.

For record here are the trains to Weymouth today
2O70 three car unit from Westbury arrives 08:25
2O72 two car unit from Cheltenham Spa arrives 10:32
2O88 three car unit from Swindon arrives 11:08
2O73 five car unit from Gloucester arrives 11:35
2O74 three car unit from Gloucester arrives 12:26
2O76 two car unit from Gloucester arrives 14:26
2O78 three car unit from Gloucester arrives 16:26

linking realtime trains

Realtime Trains | Departures from Weymouth all day on 12/07/2025

Train information at Weymouth all day on 12/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

With some of the trains over 3hours duration, no reservable seats, no trolley, would you risk them, especially with the random gaps of upto 127 minutes between trains

 

[irish_rail]

Some Turbos where failed yesterday due to broken cab cooling system (perfectly justifiable reason to fail a train in this heat). For example the Newbury to Bedwyn shuttles had to be withdrawn as unit failed and the London to Penzance stuff picked up the stops..... also plenty of 5 car IETs about, I had the misfortune of passing on the 2003 London to Plymouth at the end of a short trip, and was rammed beyond belief running as a 5.Didnt empty out until after Exeter either. Sadly our fleets are just not built for this type of heat.

 

[Parallel]

It used to be the case that those schedulling trains day or two before would check for exceptional weather, and act accordingly. But not in GWR land.

For record here are the trains to Weymouth today
2O70 three car unit from Westbury arrives 08:25
2O72 two car unit from Cheltenham Spa arrives 10:32
2O88 three car unit from Swindon arrives 11:08
2O73 five car unit from Gloucester arrives 11:35
2O74 three car unit from Gloucester arrives 12:26
2O76 two car unit from Gloucester arrives 14:26
2O78 three car unit from Gloucester arrives 16:26

linking realtime trains

Realtime Trains | Departures from Weymouth all day on 12/07/2025

Train information at Weymouth all day on 12/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

With some of the trains over 3hours duration, no reservable seats, no trolley, would you risk them, especially with the random gaps of upto 127 minutes between trains

2O73 will almost certainly be shorter than 5 coaches as I don’t think 5 coach Turbos are permitted on the line with all vehicles in passenger service.

I think the issue is more GWR isn’t fit for purpose during summer. Their air conditioning isn’t adequate creating really poor conditions on board. They have a largely seasonal network in some places which they can’t provide enough capacity for, and as you said, the trains are some of the oldest regional/local trains on the network now which sees them prone to failure.

Hopefully the 175s can cover off some of the reliability issues by cascading more stock around. Hopefully they’ll also review routes depots sign as the number of cancellations tomorrow for the Weymouth line suggests that only one depot still works the line, which might look efficient on paper, it’s rather inefficient when things go wrong. Even worse they can’t provide any rail replacement buses.

 

[Envoy]

It must be very frustrating for the frontline staff as well as the management trying to operate an inadequate clapped out fleet. Considerable numbers of the travelling public must also have deserted rail travel having had bad experiences with rammed trains and high prices. As Irish_rail says above, you have 5 car IET’s sometimes picking up passengers that should have been on the failed trains.

I must say that in Wales, the Welsh Government have been making improvements regarding rail transport via TFW. Things are not perfect but with new fleets coming on stream, the public are at last seeing progress towards a decent railway.

I think those civil servants in the DfT in Whitehall should get out and go travelling about on the GWR trains such as the Weymouth route today to see the desperate need for new rolling stock. Yes, I know the 175’s are coming and that will help but goodness knows why they were not sent straight to GWR when TFW no longer needed them? What is it - 3 years maybe where they have sat in sidings in Anglia?

 

[The exile]

Saturday 12 July and GWR seem to think that it is adequate to run a 2 coach train on the Weymouth run on a very hot summer Saturday? Is this the best they can do?

Realtime Trains | 2O72 0655 Cheltenham Spa to Weymouth | 12/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 2O72 0655 departure from Cheltenham Spa to Weymouth on 12/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Said train looks comfortably full but not overcrowded at Westbury. It’s the evening commute trains where capacity if more critical - it’s harder to abandon your return journey.

 

[Envoy]

Said train looks comfortably full but not overcrowded at Westbury. It’s the evening commute trains where capacity if more critical - it’s harder to abandon your return journey.

Well - good to hear that nobody is standing by the time it reached Westbury.

 

[vicbury]

It's not just Weymouth, many of the Portsmouth - Cardiff services have been 2 cars, or simply cancelled, of late. It's an absolute shambles. We're now what, the best part of a decade, since it was meant to become all five-car.

 

[father_jack]

It really is pathetic - no trains and lack of crew on Sundays because I guess they volunteer to work Sundays and this being a fine weather Sunday - they don't volunteer. I expect the train drivers are all heading off to the coast in their BMW’s.

That's unnecessarily inflammatory. The reasons have been discussed with civilised manners often before.

 

[irish_rail]

That's unnecessarily inflammatory. The reasons have been discussed with civilised manners often before.

Indeed. And to be fair to those train drivers, it is they who have been forced against their will to lose the route knowledge. As I understand it, only Westbury drivers now sign Weymouth, up until recently Bristol drivers also did that run. Another great bit of GWR management strategy that the traincrews get vilified for...... it really is time for some serious route RE-learning at certain depots, Bristol and Plymouth spring to mind, but many other depots are available!

 

[Snow1964]

Sadly our fleets are just not built for this type of heat.

I am not sure that is true, temperatures into low-mid 30s c are fairly common on multiple days per year (and rare not to have any in a year) in Thames Valley.

Why would anyone specify a train that cannot cope and breaks down, during temperatures that probably occur on (guessing) 10-25 days per year.

The idea they are deliberately specified and not built to cope with British weather seems far fetched to me.

 

[Blindtraveler]

For me, this simply symbolises a real way that has failed to address the needs of its customers and continues to fail to do so. Okay, so passenger numbers in the 1980s and early '90s when a lot of these units were built, justified the train lengths procured and put into service at that time, but given that we have fleets of modern dmu in particular in Northern land and Wales that were again only specified with two or three carriages simply beggars belief to me and leaves me to question if some superpower very high up in an ivory tower somewhere simply wants the railway to implode on itself and die a slow and painful death of a thousand cuts, or should that be a thousand cancellations or a thousand short formed trains

From being a source of pleasure and enjoyment when I was younger, the railway to me has now become a necessary evil and I'm growing increasingly tired of it

 

[irish_rail]

I am not sure that is true, temperatures into low-mid 30s c are fairly common on multiple days per year (and rare not to have any in a year) in Thames Valley.

Why would anyone specify a train that cannot cope and breaks down, during temperatures that probably occur on (guessing) 10-25 days per year.

The idea they are deliberately specified and not built to cope with British weather seems far fetched to me.

From on the ground I can confirm the fleets struggle in this heat. The 80x engines keep overheating and de rating. The cab air conditioning of the NONE IET fleet suffer failures and other heat related issues. Whether or not they where speccd for this heat, they are certainly struggling, that's a fact I'm afraid.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

For record here are the trains to Weymouth today
2O70 three car unit from Westbury arrives 08:25
2O72 two car unit from Cheltenham Spa arrives 10:32
2O88 three car unit from Swindon arrives 11:08
2O73 five car unit from Gloucester arrives 11:35
2O74 three car unit from Gloucester arrives 12:26
2O76 two car unit from Gloucester arrives 14:26
2O78 three car unit from Gloucester arrives 16:26

Given that 2O88 and 2O73 are additional Saturday-only services for the summer season that don’t run from September to May, that’s an additional 8 carriages of capacity being inserted into the morning southbound timetable. 2 cars on 2O72 isn’t ideal but the rest should be fine.

(If 2O73 is the service that doesn’t stop at any of the halts then it will be ok as a 5-car, although Frome might have been a ‘local door’ release.)

Also worth noting that a 3-car 16x has about the same number of seats as a 4-car 150 which is as good as the services ever got under BR/Wessex Trains/FGW, barring the loco-hauled and HST crowdbusters.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Some Turbos where failed yesterday due to broken cab cooling system (perfectly justifiable reason to fail a train in this heat). For example the Newbury to Bedwyn shuttles had to be withdrawn as unit failed and the London to Penzance stuff picked up the stops..... also plenty of 5 car IETs about, I had the misfortune of passing on the 2003 London to Plymouth at the end of a short trip, and was rammed beyond belief running as a 5.Didnt empty out until after Exeter either. Sadly our fleets are just not built for this type of heat.

Hasn't the 2003 been diagrammed a 5-car FO since the May t/t change with the other 5-car off the 1415 Penzance working 2023 to Oxford. Bizarrely, the 2003 follows a 9-car from Westbury that runs ECS to Laira (the set off the 1808 Frome). I notice Reading only sent one 165 West this morning instead of the usual three on a Saturday, which would not have helped the situation around Bristol. Even so, Reading still has two entire North Diagrams shown cancelled today on journeycheck.

 

[irish_rail]

Hasn't the 2003 been diagrammed a 5-car FO since the May t/t change with the other 5-car off the 1415 Penzance working 2023 to Oxford. Bizarrely, the 2003 follows a 9-car from Westbury that runs ECS to Laira (the set off the 1808 Frome). I notice Reading only sent one 165 West this morning instead of the usual three on a Saturday, which would not have helped the situation around Bristol. Even so, Reading still has two entire North Diagrams shown cancelled today on journeycheck.

Hadn't realised that it is now booked 5 cars? Where on earth are the fleet being used? That train always loads over 300 off London even on a Friday , a very strange choice to be diagrammed a 5 car set!

 

[Envoy]

For me, this simply symbolises a real way that has failed to address the needs of its customers and continues to fail to do so. Okay, so passenger numbers in the 1980s and early '90s when a lot of these units were built, justified the train lengths procured and put into service at that time, but given that we have fleets of modern dmu in particular in Northern land and Wales that were again only specified with two or three carriages simply beggars belief to me and leaves me to question if some superpower very high up in an ivory tower somewhere simply wants the railway to implode on itself and die a slow and painful death of a thousand cuts, or should that be a thousand cancellations or a thousand short formed trains

From being a source of pleasure and enjoyment when I was younger, the railway to me has now become a necessary evil and I'm growing increasingly tired of it

You may only have seen new 2 or 3 carriage trains on TFW but they were ordered as such because on some parts of the network, shorter trains can cope with the predicted customer flows. The full new fleets have not yet arrived and teething problems with some of the new trains have sometimes led to them being shorter than need be to cope with demand. The good thing with the TFW Class 197’s from Spanish manufacturer CAF (assembled in Newport) is that they have end doors which means they can be joined up to form longer trains that the guard and passengers can walk through. They can also lock out individual coaches in the event that platforms are not long enough.

Photo 1 below shows one of these new Class 197 trains on the Milford Haven to Manchester run. When west of Swansea - where the population is less - they run with fewer coaches but from Swansea to Manchester, the ultimate aim is to have them running as 5 coaches - as in my photograph.

The second photograph shows one of the new FLIRT trains operating local services in SE Wales. This particular one can operate on overhead wires, battery and also has a diesel back-up if required (in the middle section - which people can walk through). Another advantage of this type of train is level boarding via a ramp that comes out automatically to the platform.

As I said earlier, TFW under the control of the Welsh Government, are in the process of making great improvements to the railway and this has led to increasing numbers of customers. It’s a pity that the same cannot be said for the west Country and south west under the control of the UK government. It’s high time the life expired GWR trains - often with non existent air-con - were replaced with new stock - as is happening in Wales.

 

[Snow1964]

It seems that in First Group days, somebody thought it would be sensible to do the same as caused the chaos at First Transpennine. As I understand it, basically cut route knowledge, specifically remove signing the Weymouth route from crews based at Bristol. They opted for the eggs all in one basket approach of would always be sufficient staff at Westbury to run the service.

Tomorrow they have created multiple failings, no GWR staff or management can be found to operate the service, update journey planners in timely way, hire in replacement buses (or coaches, or charter train). Basically have capitulated into give up mode, rather than endeavour to get you there.

 

[Kite159]

..

You may only have seen new 2 or 3 carriage trains on TFW but they were ordered as such because on some parts of the network, shorter trains can cope with the predicted customer flows. The full new fleets have not yet arrived and teething problems with some of the new trains have sometimes led to them being shorter than need be to cope with demand. The good thing with the TFW Class 197’s from Spanish manufacturer CAF (assembled in Newport) is that they have end doors which means they can be joined up to form longer trains that the guard and passengers can walk through. They can also lock out individual coaches in the event that platforms are not long enough.

Photo 1 below shows one of these new Class 197 trains on the Milford Haven to Manchester run. When west of Swansea - where the population is less - they run with fewer coaches but from Swansea to Manchester, the ultimate aim is to have them running as 5 coaches - as in my photograph.

The second photograph shows one of the new FLIRT trains operating local services in SE Wales. This particular one can operate on overhead wires, battery and also has a diesel back-up if required (in the middle section - which people can walk through). Another advantage of this type of train is level boarding via a ramp that comes out automatically to the platform.

As I said earlier, TFW under the control of the Welsh Government, are in the process of making great improvements to the railway and this has led to increasing numbers of customers. It’s a pity that the same cannot be said for the west Country and south west under the control of the UK government. It’s high time the life expired GWR trains - often with non existent air-con - were replaced with new stock - as is happening in Wales.

I must have missed all those 2 coach 197s running north of Newport, especially to North Wales where they end up leaving passengers behind...