Why does everything have to be about Brexit?

[najaB]

I get it. Brexit is the biggest thing to affect our country since WW2, and emotions run high on both sides. It's important, and it needs to be discussed.

But sometimes it really is too much. For example, in the thread started in response to the mass shootings in New Zealand it took 10 replies before Brexit was mentioned - which is pretty amazing given that neither New Zealand nor Australia (where the gunman was from) are parties to the Brexit process.

And with that, something completely unrelated to Brexit:

(Picture shows five puppies)

 

[Howardh]

Brexit is the biggest thing to affect our country since WW2

Got it in one there, bud.
And the fall-out will last for years.
Brexit aside, what would have been the biggest thing that COULD have effected our country since the war? Cuban missile crisis?
And something that DID (other than joining the EEC)? 2008 financial crash?

 

[Paul’s]

What did the reporters do before Brexit, and what will do when it’s over. I wonder.

 

[bramling]

I get it. Brexit is the biggest thing to affect our country since WW2, and emotions run high on both sides. It's important, and it needs to be discussed.

But sometimes it really is too much. For example, in the thread started in response to the mass shootings in New Zealand it took 10 replies before Brexit was mentioned - which is pretty amazing given that neither New Zealand nor Australia (where the gunman was from) are parties to the Brexit process.

And with that, something completely unrelated to Brexit:

(Picture shows five puppies)

I suspect the answer is that a subset of people will not, or even cannot, accept the referendum result, and take any opportunity to snipe about it. That's their democratic right, of course.

 

[Ianno87]

There are echoes of the 2008 Financial Crisis aftermath where, if a company did badly it was "because of the recession", or if it well it was "despite the recession", with little supporting analysis.

The basic problem with Brexit is that the referendum result was a catch-all for lots of problems, and is still treated as such, irrespective if any of those problems are actually caused by the EU (not many are, in my view). Basically we now can't all agree a deal we like as a result.

 

[Senex]

What did the reporters do before Brexit, and what will do when it’s over. I wonder.

Unfortunately they'll have plenty more to write about. For the next few years there's going to be the trade "deal" to keep them very much occupied, and then there will be many years to assess the impact of Brexit and pass judgement on the politicians who delivered it.

I suspect the answer is that a subset of people will not, or even cannot, accept the referendum result, and take any opportunity to snipe about it. That's their democratic right, of course.

Indeed, that is and will be our right, just as it was the right of those who sniped against out EEC/EU membership from the 1970s onwards. However, I think this exercise will have generated much longer-lasting hatreds, for the political system, for the politicians who have been involved in the whole Brexit process, for the anti-EU venom of a large section of the media, and for the financial abuse of the political process identified by the Electoral Commission but of so little interest to the politicians (who would have howled so loudly about it if it had been their Labour or Tory opponents).

 

[Ken H]

Unfortunately they'll have plenty more to write about. For the next few years there's going to be the trade "deal" to keep them very much occupied, and then there will be many years to assess the impact of Brexit and pass judgement on the politicians who delivered it.

they will be able to pad the stories with 'because of Brexit' or 'Despite brexit' with no analysis as to whether it is anything to do with Brexit. SNAFU then.

Indeed, that is and will be our right, just as it was the right of those who sniped against out EEC/EU membership from the 1970s onwards. However, I think this exercise will have generated much longer-lasting hatreds, for the political system, for the politicians who have been involved in the whole Brexit process, for the anti-EU venom of a large section of the media, and for the financial abuse of the political process identified by the Electoral Commission but of so little interest to the politicians (who would have howled so loudly about it if it had been their Labour or Tory opponents).

I think it has shown how broken our political system is, and the massive disconnect between the westminster bubble and the rest of the UK, especially outside London. No idea how you fix that.
And we have a whole raft of MP's who have defied their parties over Brexit. They say once you have sinned, further sin is easy. Thats so true of MP's - once they have broken the whip, they will then become serial whip breakers. Especially members of the government.

 

[Groningen]

@najaB: you do not want to be informed?

 

[Darandio]

@najaB: you do not want to be informed?

In a thread about mass shootings in New Zealand? I'd wager the answer is no.

 

[Groningen]

There you have a point. Of course (as with many other things) totally unrelated.

 

[AM9]

they will be able to pad the stories with 'because of Brexit' or 'Despite brexit' with no analysis as to whether it is anything to do with Brexit. SNAFU then.



I think it has shown how broken our political system is, and the massive disconnect between the westminster bubble and the rest of the UK, especially outside London. No idea how you fix that.
And we have a whole raft of MP's who have defied their parties over Brexit. They say once you have sinned, further sin is easy. Thats so true of MP's - once they have broken the whip, they will then become serial whip breakers. Especially members of the government.

If there is a walk-away from the EU, it may be that the fallout will dwarf whatever rancour there is between the opposing groups of voters as the country slides into real decline and the leavers will stop and thinkabout what they have wished for.
If at the other extreme, Article 50 is revoked, the continuing sniping from the EU haters will continue as before.
Either way, there will be a certain amount of "no point in me ever voting again", from whichever side feels that it was ignored, (that includes remain voters who feel that the leave campaigns were misleading and in some ways broke election legislation). Feeling unfairly treated is not the sole right of leave voters, - almost as many remain voters have as much justification to feel cheated.

 

[Darandio]

There you have a point. Of course (as with many other things) totally unrelated.

What is totally unrelated? My post? It's the whole point of the thread.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect the answer is that a subset of people will not, or even cannot, accept the referendum result, and take any opportunity to snipe about it. That's their democratic right, of course.

The answer is that whether you be a Leaver or Remainer, this has been handled in just about the worst way possible.

They had nearly three years. A deal should have been presented to Parliament over a year ago, giving plenty of time for negotiation and changes.

It has been utterly incompetent from start to finish.

 

[Mag_seven]

Why do we need another Brexit thread when we already have one?

 

[Ken H]

Deleted - misunderstood who I was quoting till I re-read.

 

[Busaholic]

Why do we need another Brexit thread when we already have one?

I propose we have a non-binding vote on that

 

[Ken H]

I propose we have a non-binding vote on that

no, a meaningful vote with no legal status, please.

 

[bramling]

If there is a walk-away from the EU, it may be that the fallout will dwarf whatever rancour there is between the opposing groups of voters as the country slides into real decline and the leavers will stop and thinkabout what they have wished for.
If at the other extreme, Article 50 is revoked, the continuing sniping from the EU haters will continue as before.
Either way, there will be a certain amount of "no point in me ever voting again", from whichever side feels that it was ignored, (that includes remain voters who feel that the leave campaigns were misleading and in some ways broke election legislation). Feeling unfairly treated is not the sole right of leave voters, - almost as many remain voters have as much justification to feel cheated.

Attempting to put on a completely neutral hat, how on earth can remain voters feel cheated? A campaign happened, mature adults weighed up the arguments and formed their own decisions, and a government has attempted to honour the result. One might not like it, but I really don’t see how remain voters have been unfairly treated.

I could argue that I feel cheated having had to wait a number of decades for an opportunity to choose to leave the EU by virtue of a referendum not having been offered sooner.

I think some level of apathy and disengagement is inevitable now, however I’d suggest this will likely not be due to the referendum result, but more the shambolic way the last two years have been handled. But, having said that, we - as a population - gave a nomansland election result in 2017, so perhaps the political system is simply reflecting that aimless drift.

 

[Darandio]

no, a meaningful vote with no legal status, please.

And if the result is somewhere in the region of 52-48 can the losing side clamour for another vote?

 

[bramling]

The answer is that whether you be a Leaver or Remainer, this has been handled in just about the worst way possible.

They had nearly three years. A deal should have been presented to Parliament over a year ago, giving plenty of time for negotiation and changes.

It has been utterly incompetent from start to finish.

Two problems, one which perhaps led to the other. May is a terrible communicator, she just doesn’t achieve widespread “buy-in” and confidence inspired in the same way as someone like Cameron or Blair (in his peak years at least!).

Then we had the 2017 election result, which was almost certainly because of May. No majority and DUP influence was always going to be a recipe for trouble.

 

[Ken H]

Two problems, one which perhaps led to the other. May is a terrible communicator, she just doesn’t achieve widespread “buy-in” and confidence inspired in the same way as someone like Cameron or Blair (in his peak years at least!).

Then we had the 2017 election result, which was almost certainly because of May. No majority and DUP influence was always going to be a recipe for trouble.

Upsetting your core vote in an election campaign isnt clever. The granny tax must have cost her many votes.

 

[Groningen]

You understand we wrong. I just wanted to say that the shooting has nothing to do with Brexit and v.v.. Is that not clear enough.

 

[Howardh]

Attempting to put on a completely neutral hat, how on earth can remain voters feel cheated? A campaign happened, mature adults weighed up the arguments and formed their own decisions, and a government has attempted to honour the result. One might not like it, but I really don’t see how remain voters have been unfairly treated.

I could argue that I feel cheated having had to wait a number of decades for an opportunity to choose to leave the EU by virtue of a referendum not having been offered sooner.

I think some level of apathy and disengagement is inevitable now, however I’d suggest this will likely not be due to the referendum result, but more the shambolic way the last two years have been handled. But, having said that, we - as a population - gave a nomansland election result in 2017, so perhaps the political system is simply reflecting that aimless drift.

Ignored, not cheated!

(We were all cheated.....)

 

[Ken H]

Ignored, not cheated!

(We were all cheated.....)

I didnt vote Labour in 1997. Did I wail and say labour voters didnt know what they were voting for, that we should have a re-run of the election after a year in case we had changed our minds.

Err

NO

 

[Bletchleyite]

I didnt vote Labour in 1997. Did I wail and say labour voters didnt know what they were voting for, that we should have a re-run of the election after a year in case we had changed our minds.

Err

NO

In case it has escaped your notice, General Elections are "re-run" every 5 years.

 

[najaB]

And a thread about everything not having to be about Brexit, turns into a discussion about Brexit!

And, for something unrelated to Brexit...

(Image shows two kittens).

 

[Cowley]

And a thread about everything not having to be about Brexit, turns into a discussion about Brexit!

And, for something unrelated to Brexit...

(Image shows two kittens).

Kittens are great.

 

[Cowley]

And puppies.

 

[Ken H]

Kittens are great.

on toast?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Attempting to put on a completely neutral hat, how on earth can remain voters feel cheated? A campaign happened, mature adults weighed up the arguments and formed their own decisions, and a government has attempted to honour the result. One might not like it, but I really don’t see how remain voters have been unfairly treated.

Well, as a Remainer and someone who does feel cheated, but trying to answer as neutral-ly as I can: Three reasons come to my mind: The first is that, for those who value their European citizenship and the rights that go with, there is the sense of having been arbitrarily stripped of those rights just because other people didn't want them. A sense of, just because you don't want your EU citizenship, how does that give you the right to remove my EU citizenship.

The second is that during the referendum campaign, there were continual assurances from many campaigners on the Brexit side that it wouldn't really be a complete break, and maybe we could stay in the customs union etc. etc. Once the referendum was over, those assurances disappeared, and it seems that we are now potentially heading for a much harder Brexit than was suggested.

I think what's also contributed to this feeling is the way that ever since the referendum, not only has the Government has almost completely ignored the views or remainers (who are basically 50% of the population) but there's been the steady trickle of intimation that those of us who still want to remain are somehow traitors, or that we should shut up and not express their opinions any more. Maybe cheated isn't quite the right word for that, but that is certainly leading to a huge amount of resentment and a feeling of being ignored. I'm sure it would have been possible for the Government, had they been so minded, to start working towards Brexit in a much more inclusive way, actively seeking to listen to the concerns of both Brexiters and Remainers.

(And yes, sorry NajaB, I've pulled this back onto Brexit).