Why do you prefer buses to trains?

[johncrossley]

I notice several of the most prolific posters on this part of the forum rarely, if ever, post on the railway part of this forum.

Why is that?

Do you prefer buses to trains? Or do you like both but simply have nothing to say regarding trains?

If you prefer buses to trains, do you think trains should get their funding cut so that buses can compete with them more easily?

 

[Geordie driver]

I notice several of the most prolific posters on this part of the forum rarely, if ever, post on the railway part of this forum.

Why is that?

Do you prefer buses to trains? Or do you like both but simply have nothing to say regarding trains?

If you prefer buses to trains, do you think trains should get their funding cut so that buses can compete with them more easily?

I don't contribute to the train part of this forum as I don't know much about them and have never driven them.

That doesn't seem to stop some members of this section of the forum mind, but that's life.

On your last point, the should compliment each other, not directly compete and should both be funded properly. Who defines properly is up to the electorate.

 

[SLC001]

I lost interest in trains when steam died out and buses were (and still are) a more convenient aspect of transport to follow. The West Midlands / Black Country has never really had a rail network to speak of and buses were a better way of getting around. Trams are gradually being introduced but the lack of any existing track bed makes it an expensive and disruptive solution. When we lived near Crewe at Alsager, my love of trains was boundless but we moved house in 1966 and that was it.

Nowadays, I rarely have a need to use trains though often pick up / drop off friends and family at Northampton station and guess that if I was younger I may go back to following trains more closely but the deep enthusiasm has waned - but not entirely gone.

 

[Paul Jones 88]

Price, I can go all the way from Waltham Cross to London Bridge for 1.55 on the bus 279/149.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I notice several of the most prolific posters on this part of the forum rarely, if ever, post on the railway part of this forum.

Why is that?

Do you prefer buses to trains? Or do you like both but simply have nothing to say regarding trains?

If you prefer buses to trains, do you think trains should get their funding cut so that buses can compete with them more easily?

Probably for a number of reasons....

In my case, I was brought up on the buses; seeing behind the scenes of a depot was fascinating and you begin to realise what happens and why. That influenced my subsequent choices at university and whilst I then worked as a student in the industry, I could see that there were better opportunities elsewhere. Many people who work in public transport do so for the love of it; I chased the money and went elsewhere albeit still involved in transport. Despite what some may think, you don't become a bus company manager to become a fat cat; most have a long-held love and that's shown by how many are involved in the enthusiast world. In that respect, it's probably rather similar to the rail industry, I should imagine.

I don't have anything against trains. I'll happily travel on them for both business and pleasure. One of my fave memories is traveling on the Trenitalia high-speed line one afternoon through Tuscany as the sun began to set; also, the joy of waking up on the Caley Sleeper to Fort William and across Rannoch Moor. I've had the joys of traveling on trains across Netherlands and Germany, and even in Portugal and across the Oresund from Copenhagen to Malmo. However, it is fair to say that whilst I know what a class 442 looks like against a class 153, I just don't have the specialist knowledge of trains to really contribute to the rail threads. I'd also add that I also am a sucker for light rail, even dragging my beloved for a short explore on the Valencia Metro. In short, I'm a public transport fan but with a specialism in buses; in that regard, given my interest in how buses work and interact with their passengers, I'm much more likely to have a day out catching buses but I'm an advocate for all forms. I just don't know much about the intricacies of train operation so I leave that to the experts!

As for funding, I'd sooner not see trains get a funding cut. However, politicians do make decisions that often reflect the public perception, if not reality. Trains are much more emotive for many; suggest closing a line and you'd see all hell break loose whereas a bus service can disappear without a murmur. The reasons for this.... well, the loss of a train line is permanent, tied in with its physical presence. There is also, rightly or wrongly, a perception that trains represent something more "special" or higher status than the humble bus. As you know, I don't believe that buses truly compete with trains. Whether it's a line reopening or just improving a line to have higher standards and reliability, there are plenty of instances where a train service has simply wiped out a bus service because generally, they are quicker and that outweighs any cost consideration to most passengers. For this, you can point to Southend to London, Ebbw Vale to Cardiff, Bathgate to Edinburgh, Gala to Edinburgh just off the cuff.

I'd like to see more investment in public transport, and especially in buses as they have been treated as a lower priority, but not at the expense of train funding. And I'd love to see more integration between modes; just that often, I feel it's the default position for enthusiasts when there are more pressing priorities in the UK to get sorted.

 

[GusB]

For me it's not quite as simple as having a preference for one over the other - I like travelling by both bus and train - but I developed my interest in buses primarily because I used them every day to get to school when I was a kid. Trains were great, but they were only there for special days out and holidays.

For local journeys, there is no train - it's bus or nothing (I don't currently have a car). If I'm only going to the next village I'll walk if the weather's nice enough. In fact, I sometimes walk if the weather isn't that nice - my inner Aberdonian gives me a little kick whenever a I think about using the bus for that distance

For medium distance journeys it depends if it's a day trip or coming back at a later date. I'll give an example of trip to Inverness - my journey consists of two legs; bus into Elgin then bus or train from Elgin to Inverness. The second leg is far quicker by train (44 minutes versus 90 minutes), but it's an irregular service so there's no guarantee that there will be a train within a reasonable time of me arriving in Elgin. The Stagecoach 10 is every 30 minutes, although if my journey isn't time-critical I will consider skipping one in order to get the hourly coach that comes from Aberdeen.

I also have to factor in the time it takes to get between the bus and railway stations. There are bus services which go past the railway station, but with the current reductions in frequency it can be difficult to get things to line up. It usually takes me about 10 minutes to walk, so that's what I normally do unless I'm carrying luggage.

Then there's cost:
Bus + Train would be £6 (Dayrider) for leg 1 + (2x£13.20 single) for leg 2 = £32.40
Bus + Bus = £14.00 (Explorer Dayrider)
Difference = £18.40!
Unless I'm feeling particularly flush and want to travel by train and all the times line up nicely, it's a bit of a no-brainer to use the bus.

If I wasn't coming back the same day, however, the numbers are different:
Bus + Train: £8.00 (period return) + (2x£13.20 single) = £34.40
Bus + Bus: £8.00 + £19.80 = £27.90 (both period returns)
Difference = £6.50
I wouldn't be so hesitant to pay the extra for the time saving in this case.

For long distance journeys (e.g. to Edinburgh or Glasgow) it's never going to be possible to do out and back in a day, and I prefer to take the train. I do consider cost, but I'm more likely to plan such journeys further in advance; if I can get a reasonably cheap rail fare the train will win hands down. The days of hurtling down the A9 on a clapped out B10M with a dodgy speed limited (allegedly!) are gone anyway.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

I love trains most, but buses are great too.
Sometimes buses work better in my opinion though.

Bus travel is far better as far as payment options go, you simply hop on, or buy a weekly ticket, hop off, and can change routes easily.
On trains you buy a ticket get on the train, turns out that the ticket was for a different operator, you get questioned and a penalty fare given to you, and you have to go through cattle barriers at the end stop and you threw away the ticket you were told was useless so have to buy another.

Also bus drivers are often friendly in my area, and it is nice seeing who's driving which the trains lack.
Stop bells would speed up rural lines a bit if they were implemented, like why does the Grimsby to Leicester train have to waste 2 minutes stopping at Swinderby when it's car park is empty, buses would be useless if they stopped at every stop when no one was there.

 

[Kremlin Stooge]

For me it is not a binary choice between buses and trains. I freely admit that I don’t have much knowledge about the current rail scene, my growing up years were influenced by the transition of BR from green to blue/blue and grey, an era I have sought to recreate via model railway activities, as a purely self-indulgent nostalgic exercise.

I still actively travel by train, and have contributed to a speculative thread about the local and regional services around Bristol, and the suitability (or otherwise) of ex-Thames Valley commuter stock being deployed on the South Wales/South Coast trunk routes, but got shouted down by those more ‘in the know’.

I also started a topic about some very rough-riding experiences on the GWR Hitachi units deployed in the last couple of years, but again, my lived experience got pooh-poohed by the cognoscenti, so I tend to stay clear of much of the rail threads. I will still have a look at the History & Nostalgia, Preservation and one or two other sub-forums.

Buses are just something I have much closer and long-lived experience of.

 

[route101]

I used to be more interesting into trains. I still love trains, bit easier getting familiar with classes of train. Part of attraction of bus routes is the chance to see new areas of the country and to travel along A roads etc.

 

[Busaholic]

I was born and lived in a house in London that had a bus stop outside it, another one almost opposite it, and my first word was 'bus.' In other words, a no-brainer.

 

[Kremlin Stooge]

I was born and lived in a house in London that had a bus stop outside it, another one almost opposite it, and my first word was 'bus.' In other words, a no-brainer.

My earliest memories are of living in my Gran’s house which had a bus stop outside, served by RFs on the [then] 202, but my young attention was grabbed by what was then East London branch of the Met running past the back of her garden, south from Surrey Docks (sorry, it will always be Surrey Docks to me, none of this new-fangled Surrey Quays nonsense, the smell of the tallow ships... ). Beyond that was the London & Greenwich viaduct; according to my mother I would frequently tip my cot over at the sight of a twelve-car EMU or DEMU...

I know, I’m sad!

 

[richw]

I browse the rail sections but it’s outside of my area of knowledge, so I read to gain understanding. i don’t know much about them to contribute.

Buses I know about in my area to contribute to that area of the forum.
Both rail and buses are of interest to me, I just know more about buses as a bus driver!

 

[tbtc]

I started off with trains - trains are a lot easier to understand when you're younger I suppose - but I guess that buses were more vibrant in the 1980s, the things that excited me then are things that might annoy me now (frequent service revisions, direct competition, an ever changing combination of colours) - this was the period where the staid networks were adapting to newfangled operators, minibuses penetrating housing estates and creating new markets...

...meanwhile train services rarely changed, any "recast" on a line had to be arranged years in advance, the rail industry was a lot less flexible, it was harder to get as excited about trains in those days.

These days, things have changed a lot. Privatisation brought some innovations to the railway whilst bus operations stagnated under the control of conglomerates, before austerity saw them enter a vicious circle of service cuts and above inflationary fare rises

The railway burns through billions of pounds in subsidy whilst cash strapped councils can't afford to subsidise evening/Sunday bus services to places that had them for generations

Rail passengers complain about fares going up by RPI+1% once a year whilst bus passengers expect to see fares go up by considerably more than inflation each year, as operators have to cope with the way that ENCTS rebates work

But buses could be the key to unlocking a lot more markets - a sensibly run country could use the flexibility of buses to driver a lot of goals much faster than the five year timescales it seems to take some railway schemes to take - it's frustrating that we are letting existing bus networks wither on the vine (even before Covid, many bus corridors had been cut during a decade of austerity and eye watering price rises) whilst lightly used railway lines are treated as sacred with no cuts permitted even as operating costs go through the roof - the bus industry is crying out for a fraction of the money given to the railway - we could achieve a lot with buses whilst railway projects are stuck in various stages of planning processes.

 

[iantherev]

It's horses for courses. I've always had an interest in both and when we lived in Axminster it was much easier to use the train and buy a Devon Day Ranger going west rather than a Stagecoach Explorer and be limited by the service 4 to Exeter. Now I live 15 miles from the nearest station but have the Traws Cymru to Cardiff running through the village. Being the local PSV Circle sub-editor for Stagecoach, First Cardiff and Newport will always mean it's easier to go out on the bus and as I edge closer to the free bus pass I suspect that I will make full use of that when the time comes. Once I get the Senior Railcard, and train services stabilise I will probably make more use of the train for longer journeys and the new rolling stock on the Valleys will undoubtedly tempt me out but at present a 150 fest really doesn't entice me. I mainly post in this section where I can assist with information- I must confess that the railway section of the forum doesn't hold much appeal for me at the moment.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But buses could be the key to unlocking a lot more markets - a sensibly run country could use the flexibility of buses to driver a lot of goals much faster than the five year timescales it seems to take some railway schemes to take - it's frustrating that we are letting existing bus networks wither on the vine (even before Covid, many bus corridors had been cut during a decade of austerity and eye watering price rises) whilst lightly used railway lines are treated as sacred with no cuts permitted even as operating costs go through the roof - the bus industry is crying out for a fraction of the money given to the railway - we could achieve a lot with buses whilst railway projects are stuck in various stages of planning processes.

I completely agree. While it's not perfect, the speed of scaling of the service on the St Ives-Cambridge Busway has been impressive, while if it had been a railway it'd still have a 2-car DMU leaving people behind once an hour and lots of wrangling about where to get another one from years later. And despite being a bus, it has a lovely country branch line feel to it and is really quite scenic.

 

[asb]

Although I like both modes, from a practical perspective there is just too much stuff being discussed on the rail side of this forum, whereas I can keep on top of the discussions I am interested in on this side without spending my whole life doing so!

 

[busken]

Bus travel is far better as far as payment options go, you simply hop on, or buy a weekly ticket, hop off, and can change routes easily.
On trains you buy a ticket get on the train, turns out that the ticket was for a different operator, you get questioned and a penalty fare given to you, and you have to go through cattle barriers at the end stop and you threw away the ticket you were told was useless so have to buy another.

I haven't used a train for years, I'm put off by the fact that they seem to make it as difficult as possible to buy the correct ticket, and then fine you at the drop of a hat when you get it wrong. For me its buses for local journeys and car for anything longer. Always been interested in buses as vehicles since early teens.

 

[extendedpaul]

I prefer trains to buses but use the bus a lot more since i qualified for an ENCS pass last year. Many local journeys are easier and not much slower by bus.

What about train vs coach ? Again I prefer rail travel but the difference in cost has widened considerably in the last few years. Most of my longer journeys are to see matinee performances at theatres and I usually travel outward by train because arrival time is critical. I allow at least an hour for delays but usually arrive on time .

I often return by coach because 5-7 pm departures are usually much cheaper than equivalent trains and delays are less likely in the evening and don't matter so much. Just booked Leicester to London coach for £4.90.

 

[richardcoughla]

I used to be more interesting into trains. I still love trains, bit easier getting familiar with classes of train. Part of attraction of bus routes is the chance to see new areas of the country and to travel along A roads etc.

I was a bit like you but the other way around I went buses, trains and now back to buses but I love both. I don't do Freight that is too much for me at the moment only passenger Trains mainly in London Preferably within TfL.