Why do some stations leave automatic ticket barriers open?

[RailWonderer]

Manchester Piccadilly and Kings Cross have a habit of leaving ticket gates open, I can only imagine they do it to ease congestion. Not once at stations like Liverpool St or Paddington have I ever seen open ticket barriers in all my 10 years of using those stations. Is it to do with ToCs or Network rail?

 

[Jrocks]

There are many reason why ticket barriers may not be in operation. It may be to ease congestion, they may only be manned during peak hours, you could have staff sickness or they may have a fault. The TOCs are the ones who run the gateline, they are nothing to do with network rail (it's not their revenue to be lost aha). At some stations, the Gateline may even be opened to allow the staff to help with other activities, this would usually only happen as a last resort tho.

 

[riceuten]

Not just this, but completely turned off, rather than left in passive mode (so those of us with smart cards can tap out). The staff at Stevenage do this all the time, and no amount of emails or phone calls to GTR's pathetic excuse of a customer service system will stop the staff at the Station doing this, requiring us to go on line to manually complete journeys and after 5 of these, you have to ring up and request a 48 hour call back for someone to reset the count manually, as they see this as fraud - I kid you not.

 

[JaJaWa]

Not just this, but completely turned off, rather than left in passive mode (so those of us with smart cards can tap out). The staff at Stevenage do this all the time, and no amount of emails or phone calls to GTR's pathetic excuse of a customer service system will stop the staff at the Station doing this, requiring us to go on line to manually complete journeys and after 5 of these, you have to ring up and request a 48 hour call back for someone to reset the count manually, as they see this as fraud - I kid you not.

I believe there are standalone ITSO readers by the lifts (seems to be confirmed by NRE). You also used to be able to tap in/out on the ticket vending machines (not sure if you can still do this).

 

[philjo]

Yes, I think there is a reader near the top of both lifts as the lifts bypass the main barriers.

 

[800001]

Staff employed on barriers, then get despatch or onboard job, therefore vacancy for barriers.
Eventually not enough staff to run barriers, add in sickness, barrier faults, you can see why there open a lot.

 

[swt_passenger]

Staff employed on barriers, then get despatch or onboard job, therefore vacancy for barriers.
Eventually not enough staff to run barriers, add in sickness, barrier faults, you can see why there open a lot.

They could still leave the validators switched on.

I just suspect too many staff aren’t aware of the potential problems caused by incomplete journeys, whether it’s on Oyster, ITSO, or other contactless PAYG.

 

[Kite159]

Or some stations which have multiple entry points where one entry point is protected by barriers but the other entry point either has no barriers or the barriers are wide open. So any locals will simply go direct to the secondary entry point in the hope of a free ride

I.e Rainham & Chatham.

 

[2021_Signaller]

I think because of the regularity of checking tickets on the services that I've travelled on, the TOCs (or their staff perhaps) realise that there is only very little revenues to be gained from staffing the barriers. Perhaps those staff have been redeployed to do other things.

 

[gabrielhj07]

I think because of the regularity of checking tickets on the services that I've travelled on, the TOCs (or their staff perhaps) realise that there is only very little revenues to be gained from staffing the barriers. Perhaps those staff have been redeployed to do other things.

This is very true, and would fit in with the OP's observations at King's Cross & Manchester Pic. Obviously the majority of services that both stations accomodate will have guards/ticket inspectors present.

 

[Mikw]

So, if you get off a train and need to "tap" to complete your journey, what do you do if the gates are switched off?

 

[Jrocks]

In my experience, Gates are very rarely 'turned off'. Even if the gates are open, they will still accept itso cards, e-tickets and will still take ccst stock and retain it if necessary. To turn the gates off into a state where they won't accept anything involves going inside of the equipment and flipping a switch. This is usually only done when there is a major fault as when they are in this state, they are automatically opened and will not close again until the fault is fixed.

Edit - The only other reason I can think of for itso cards not working is that the staff setting the gates to open but all in one direction, either entry or exit. Other than this, there shouldn't be any other reason why gates wouldn't be accepting tickets when in an open state.

 

[345 050]

Woolwich Arsenal always seems to be open. Even when the are staff there .....

 

[bramling]

Manchester Piccadilly and Kings Cross have a habit of leaving ticket gates open, I can only imagine they do it to ease congestion. Not once at stations like Liverpool St or Paddington have I ever seen open ticket barriers in all my 10 years of using those stations. Is it to do with ToCs or Network rail?

In the case of King’s Cross the whole setup is pretty labour intensive. I think I’m right in saying that most of the gate lines there are run by LNER, with only the platform 9-11 gate line run by GTR. Pretty much every LNER train will have a manual inspection, and there isn’t a great incentive for LNER to be checking tickets on behalf of GTR. It’s pretty rare at Kings Cross for every gateline to be operational.

Revenue protection on the GN side of GTR is still pretty hit and miss. Their own gate lines can often be found open, and I’ve still yet to experience an on-train check since March 2020.

 

[BJames]

St Pancras EMR have their barriers shut 95% of the time (only been through once or twice when they were open) including early morning and late evening in both directions - stark contrast to KGX across the road (although, as noted above by @bramling, the separately run GTR gateline at platforms 9 and 10 is shut a bit more - not always, and ultimately if you were that desperate there is access from platform 8 anyway...)

 

[Horizon22]

In the case of King’s Cross the whole setup is pretty labour intensive. I think I’m right in saying that most of the gate lines there are run by LNER, with only the platform 9-11 gate line run by GTR. Pretty much every LNER train will have a manual inspection, and there isn’t a great incentive for LNER to be checking tickets on behalf of GTR. It’s pretty rare at Kings Cross for every gateline to be operational.

Revenue protection on the GN side of GTR is still pretty hit and miss. Their own gate lines can often be found open, and I’ve still yet to experience an on-train check since March 2020.

Kings Cross does look like a nightmare to staff every time I’ve walked through considering the layout of the gateline there. I think I’ve walked either in or out every time without a check.

As to the OPs question as to why - it might be staff sickness (short notice sickness, or long term vacancies), staff on other duties temporarily (i.e to assist a passenger), or rostered hours (most stations are not staffed on the gates first-last train). There are minimum staffing levels based on a station plan - especially when there are multiple gatelines - so certain ones will be progressively closed if there are not available staff.

I’ve not heard of gates being completely switched off although this may be a London perspective; normally they’re open but all validators (stand alone or integrated) work fine so you don’t run into an issue if your destination has the gates closed. Let’s also not forget the notorious - and against procedure - “close all gates except the wide aisle gate”.

 

[skyhigh]

Kings Cross does look like a nightmare to staff every time I’ve walked through considering the layout of the gateline there. I think I’ve walked either in or out every time without a check.

Not to mention Grand Central services where they allow on-train sales

 

[dk1]

So, if you get off a train and need to "tap" to complete your journey, what do you do if the gates are switched off?

Just tap. They usually still work for this even though forced open.

 

[AlterEgo]

Woolwich Arsenal always seems to be open. Even when the are staff there .....

It’s open about 50% of the time in my experience. It is a little odd to see it when it’s staffed!

 

[Aayron]

My heart always used to sink if I arrived at Leicester station on my way home from work and the barriers were open. It usually meant there were delays and the gate staff were down on the platforms trying to manage the chaos.

 

[riceuten]

In my experience, Gates are very rarely 'turned off'. Even if the gates are open, they will still accept itso cards, e-tickets and will still take ccst stock and retain it if necessary. To turn the gates off into a state where they won't accept anything involves going inside of the equipment and flipping a switch. This is usually only done when there is a major fault as when they are in this state, they are automatically opened and will not close again until the fault is fixed.

Edit - The only other reason I can think of for itso cards not working is that the staff setting the gates to open but all in one direction, either entry or exit. Other than this, there shouldn't be any other reason why gates wouldn't be accepting tickets when in an open

that’s my experience as well, except at Stevenage. The gates show no display and do not beep as you tap out, so are definitely turned off, rather than left in passive open mode.

Yes, you can detour and join a long queue of people also finishing their journey at the validators by the lift (if they are working) but why should we? It is definitely staff action, GTR sent Cubic down as the staff said that ‘the gates were faulty’, and Cubic reported back that there was no fault, and staff were just using them incorrectly. I have reported it numerous times, there’s obviously someone who thinks they know better than the company working there. Each time I report it, staff deny they left the gates turned off, and CS always side with their staff members and claim I must have forgotten to tap out.

 

[Jrocks]

Each time I report it, staff deny they left the gates turned off, and CS always side with their staff members and claim I must have forgotten to tap out.

GTR should be getting a report every day (or at least every month) stating Gateline operating hours. This will detail what mode the gates were in and will clearly show of they have been switched off. It's an odd anomaly, unfortunately it sounds like you will be in for the long run with this fight. May be worth getting a photo of the Gateline and sending it to CS if you haven't already?

 

[Kite159]

In the case of King’s Cross the whole setup is pretty labour intensive. I think I’m right in saying that most of the gate lines there are run by LNER, with only the platform 9-11 gate line run by GTR. Pretty much every LNER train will have a manual inspection, and there isn’t a great incentive for LNER to be checking tickets on behalf of GTR. It’s pretty rare at Kings Cross for every gateline to be operational.

Revenue protection on the GN side of GTR is still pretty hit and miss. Their own gate lines can often be found open, and I’ve still yet to experience an on-train check since March 2020.

Agreed, more often than not the "Entry" barriers to 0-8 are closed, but the "Exit" barriers are wide open so any chancers will use the open barriers.

I think one of the stations with the most labour intensive ticket barrier layout must be Birmingham New Street, from member that has 6 different sets across the station.

Not sure how often the barriers are used on the overbridge entrance.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Don't think I've ever seen the barriers open at London Victoria

But in the stations away from London, I suspect the barriers are opened after about 8pm when staff go off shift and there is no late shift. Both Canterbury East and West spring to mind

 

[JonathanH]

Don't think I've ever seen the barriers open at London Victoria

No, but there is almost certainly a ridiculous amount of 'leakage' through the manual gates on platforms 15 to 19 which get opened at the slightest hint of a crowd.

In practice, it isn't uncommon for the 9-12 barriers to be open late evening, the 15-19 ones slightly later. The Southeastern side tends to be unstaffed earlier than the Southern side.

 

[riceuten]

GTR should be getting a report every day (or at least every month) stating Gateline operating hours. This will detail what mode the gates were in and will clearly show of they have been switched off.

I am sure they do, and do absolutely nothing about them.

 

[Siggy1980s]

Wakefield Westgate. Never in all my times passing through have I encountered them closed. Oh well. Lots of free journeys when the conductor doesn't come round......

 

[johntea]

The last several times I've been to both Kings Cross and Wakefield Westgate the LNER barriers have in fact been in operation

I was surprised on a recent trip to Newcastle that the barriers were wide open on both the outward and return journey however

 

[Haywain]

In the case of King’s Cross the whole setup is pretty labour intensive. I think I’m right in saying that most of the gate lines there are run by LNER, with only the platform 9-11 gate line run by GTR.

King's Cross barriers do require a high staffing level so sickness plays a part but the need for staff to have breaks can mean that even when there are sufficient staff there can still be periods when the gates are left open to facilitate that.

 

[Greg13]

Agreed, more often than not the "Entry" barriers to 0-8 are closed, but the "Exit" barriers are wide open so any chancers will use the open barriers.

I think one of the stations with the most labour intensive ticket barrier layout must be Birmingham New Street, from member that has 6 different sets across the station.

Not sure how often the barriers are used on the overbridge entrance.

Yes New Street has 6 ticket barriers in the station proper and then 2 on the bridge. The bridge ones are supposed to be exit only but as it's 50/50 as to whether or not they are staffed a lot of locals do use it as an entrance.

The other frustration at New Street is they seem to have the gate line staff breaks all at the same time so at certain points of the day all the barriers will be left open for 30 mins. My evening train gets in around 18:30 but the barriers are always wide open until staff get off break at 18:45. This has been an issue for years at New Street whether it was Virgin staff before or Avanti staff now