Why do some people queue rather than use a TVM?

[deltic1989]

I don't use the several TVM's at Nottingham for a couple of reasons....
a) I have never managed to make the stupid thing give me a child ticket. (When I regularly travel with my eldest Daughter, aged 6, a child ticket is a must.)
b) To collect the afore mentioned Daughter from her mother, rather than driving. I buy all the tickets i will need for the weekend on the Friday I collect her.
for example tomorrow I will need: 1x Adult Day Return, Nottingham - Lincoln......1x Child Open Return, Lincoln - Nottingham (purchased at Nottingham because by the time my Daughter and I get to Lincoln Central, the TO will be closed, and i will also need 1x Adult Day Return Nottingham - Lincoln for Sunday (Purchased on the Friday more for convenience than anything else).
I could not achieve all that from a TVM.

 

[Darren R]

There's a TVM at my nearest staffed station (Blackburn) that never gets used - and for a very good reason. It's inaccessible behind a baricade that gets put up to enable ticket checks!

 

[jon0844]

At Tesco they always have a member of staff helping people who have problems with the self service tills, they might just as well be on an ordinary till, I've even been accosted by Tesco staff trying to coerce me into using the self service tills, another waste of staff.

Our Tesco has one member of staff at some times of the day having to cover the self checkouts AND the new checkouts for people that used the handheld scanners.

Suffice to say, once a few people need to be checked (either for a manual scan, or to be approved for alcohol purchasing) then you suddenly find yourself waiting a fair while.

Suffice to say, the staff member gets quite frustrated at having to take the inevitable abuse from customers, all because management think it's acceptable to have as few staff as possible.

At Kings Cross very long queues often form for some of the TVMs, while other TVMs nearby have no queue at all. I doubt all of those people are buying the few tickets that only one brand of TVM sells. They could really do with some staff directing people to the other machines.

I am sure people are of the belief that the former EC branded machines are only for Virgin EC tickets, and the former FCC ones are for GTR (they each still pretty much look like they did under the last franchises/operations).

Sometimes it's good that people act like sheep and use just a handful of TVMs (or cash machines etc) so you effectively have no need to queue at all!

I have to say I prefer to only use TVMs for picking up pre-booked tickets as the software is so damn awful on machines, the screens rarely very responsive and the number of steps (and the delays/lag) making it a bit of a PITA. Try to be too clever, get things wrong and often there's no 'back' so you have to start over.

Being slow is perhaps the best way to use them, which is exactly what shouldn't be necessary. Imagine having the apps you use on your smartphone having to be used slowly and with exceptional care!

 

[Skimble19]

Our Tesco has one member of staff at some times of the day having to cover the self checkouts AND the new checkouts for people that used the handheld scanners.

Suffice to say, once a few people need to be checked (either for a manual scan, or to be approved for alcohol purchasing) then you suddenly find yourself waiting a fair while.

Suffice to say, the staff member gets quite frustrated at having to take the inevitable abuse from customers, all because management think it's acceptable to have as few staff as possible.



I am sure people are of the belief that the former EC branded machines are only for Virgin EC tickets, and the former FCC ones are for GTR (they each still pretty much look like they did under the last franchises/operations).

Sometimes it's good that people act like sheep and use just a handful of TVMs (or cash machines etc) so you effectively have no need to queue at all!

I have to say I prefer to only use TVMs for picking up pre-booked tickets as the software is so damn awful on machines, the screens rarely very responsive and the number of steps (and the delays/lag) making it a bit of a PITA. Try to be too clever, get things wrong and often there's no 'back' so you have to start over.

Being slow is perhaps the best way to use them, which is exactly what shouldn't be necessary. Imagine having the apps you use on your smartphone having to be used slowly and with exceptional care!

You'll be happy at your favourite station soon then when most of the machines will be as good as hidden

 

[fowler9]

TVM's are only as good as the IT bod who programmed them. They are mostly unusable if you aren't familiar with the journey you want to make. Only three days ago I had a nightmare with one at Berlin Schonefeld Airport station with a massive queue behind me. No doubt some clever clogs behind me was stood there asking "Doesn't he know what he wants". The answer was no and I couldn't talk to it. Actually I did know what I wanted but didn't know how to make the machine give it to me.

 

[Aldaniti]

I have a finger which had a rather nasty accident. I can't use it on touchscreens as they don't pick it up.

However; I don't use the machine because they don't have atoc discount. I have no choice but to use the window.

A couple of years ago I was behind a bloke in Morrisons who was having problems with his fingers too. So he inserted his middle finger into his mouth, gave it a good lick, and voila, it worked. I headed for the nearest staffed checkout and haven't used the self-service variety since. Neither have I continued to shop in the dreaded Morrisons but that's another story....

 

[Bantamzen]

As others have stated, there are numerous reasons for avoiding the TVMs:

- Not a full range of tickets or seasons available
- Many unable to renew smart tickets
- Poorly designed UI, (they still sometimes throw me even though I use them a fair bit), which results in slow operation for many
- Can be temperamental with coin / card inputs
- Touch screens occasionally badly calibrated resulting in erroneous entries
- Touch screens at level where taller people have to stoop to operate correctly without incorrect entries

There are many more, but these are a few of the reasons I don't like using them.

 

[island]

I'm the opposite. I much prefer using TVMs, which:

• Don't make nosey conversation
• Don't try to second-guess what ticket I want
• Don't claim that a ticket doesn't exist when it does
• Are as fast as a ticket office for most of the functions I use them for

I also like self-service checkouts for similar reasons.

What annoys me are people who delay queues by persisting in using self-service options when clearly unable to operate them and when staff service is available.

 

[RailAleFan]

Yeah, exactly. The problem with TVMs is being stuck behind people who don't know how to use them.

Or being stuck behind people who are collecting tickets under multiple reference numbers.

 

[ian959]

I prefer the human contact rather than a machine. Love supermarkets in the Philippines because there are no self service checkouts and nearly every till has not one but two cute girls on them - one the cashier and one the packer. Hate many ATMs because they are too low for me to easily use... its each to their own when it comes to technology but give me a real live human being over a machine any time.

 

[DaleCooper]

This would be a good compromise.

 

[Holly]

Some people like human contact and want to speak to a person rather than try and use an unfeeling machine

Also using a TVM tends to give employment to electronics manufacture workers in China instead of giving employment to booking clerks in UK.
And humans are much more helpful than machines in emergency situations.

Not everyone is motivated by selfish concerns although it is more common post-Thatcherism.

 

[Chapeltom]

I prefer using the machines. I can use them as let's be honest they are not that difficult to use! In the UK, I would not not go into a station without knowing exactly what ticket I need and can approach a TVM and be away in seconds provided the touch-screen is working fine. It doesn't take long to do your research before travel, instead of waiting until you approach the TVM.

Here in Bangkok on the MRT/ARL/BTS, its either machines or nothing! Its not that often I use them but its in Thai or English, you pick your station/fare, insert cash and you get your token or 'ticket'. Easy. On trains here, there are no machines and only single tickets, no peak fares, its as simple as you get. Go to the ticket office, say the station and class of travel if relevant, hand over money and done, seconds. I mainly use buses though here and never see anyone but Thais on them!

 

[jon0844]

I think they are unnecessarily complicated and the fact there are multiple user interfaces (even ABC and QWERTY keyboards for entering reference numbers) and different layouts means I sympathise with those who are too scared to use them, perhaps based on a previous bad experience.

Even the information given when printing is different, as is how you buy group save tickets and so on.

It would be so bloody easy to improve them, but nobody seems to care. They should all look the same (bar maybe colour schemes and TOC logos).

 

[alxndr]

I collect tickets from TVMs if I book online, no point in wasting energy posting them when I work next to the station. I tend to go to the humans otherwise because I feel I should support their being there, but if there's a queue and the TVM is free I'll use it instead.

Usually I'll walk away from the desks muttering at how they tried to sell me a child ticket (I'm 19 in a few weeks...), assumed I was travelling before 10:00, or did something else bizarre. I'm not good with people or numbers and start panic answering, so I always worry that I've agreed to buy an incorrect ticket while blundering around.

 

[fowler9]

I prefer using the machines. I can use them as let's be honest they are not that difficult to use! In the UK, I would not not go into a station without knowing exactly what ticket I need and can approach a TVM and be away in seconds provided the touch-screen is working fine. It doesn't take long to do your research before travel, instead of waiting until you approach the TVM.

Here in Bangkok on the MRT/ARL/BTS, its either machines or nothing! Its not that often I use them but its in Thai or English, you pick your station/fare, insert cash and you get your token or 'ticket'. Easy. On trains here, there are no machines and only single tickets, no peak fares, its as simple as you get. Go to the ticket office, say the station and class of travel if relevant, hand over money and done, seconds. I mainly use buses though here and never see anyone but Thais on them!

Yeah but you shouldn't have to do research in to what ticket you need just to buy a ticket. You should be able to turn up and buy the right ticket easily.

You then go on to say that in Thailand it is Machine or nothing. Later you say there are no machines. You then go on to say you mainly use buses. Are you one of the people who programs the TVM's because you seem to display the same confused thinking.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just to flesh this out further I was recently in Berlin. I had done research in to what ticket I needed. The TVM just wasn't very well set up to give me it and I ended up with the wrong ticket that cost more. I think the TVM was referring to a single meaning for one person as opposed to for a single journey. Maybe I should have done more research in to how DB's TVM's work but I shouldn't have to. If you are going to replace a person with a machine then you shouldn't need to pass a course in how to use it.

 

[Aldaniti]

Also using a TVM tends to give employment to electronics manufacture workers in China instead of giving employment to booking clerks in UK.
And humans are much more helpful than machines in emergency situations.

Not everyone is motivated by selfish concerns although it is more common post-Thatcherism.

Good point. I'd rather my fare go towards paying someone a wage for doing a useful job. But I accept that TVM's have their uses, collecting Advance ticket bookings for example.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I haven't used a TVM (unless I'm paying by card) for about three months, after one incident at Cardiff led to me not receiving my change from an £8 fare (put £10 in the machine). I didn't have time to go to the ticket office and get it sorted and also ATW refused to give me my money back once before when I was short-changed by a conductor (despite the fact they would have been over that day when they cashed up at the end of the day), so I didn't see the point in trying to get it resolved because of their incompetance.

Funnilly enough there was an interesting conversation at Temple Meads last night. Didn't catch all of the conversation but to summarise a middle-aged chap wanted to buy a ticket from Bridgwater but didn't want to use the TVM for his own personal reasons as he felt they may print off the wrong ticket/not print at all or not issue change. Despite the gateline staff at Temple Meads assuring him that the machines are perfectly in working order, he was having none of it and was getting quite vocal with the female assistant at the unpaid fares window when she refused to arrange for the conductor who would be on the said train he was catching the next day to contact Temple Meads for him as he wouldn't use the TVMs at Bridgwater!

But in general, if ever I am paying by cash, I will always go to a staffed ticket office, but if I'm paying by card then I am happier to use TVMs. To be fair with seven TVMs at Cardiff and only about four people behind the desk, the TVMs are usually the much quicker option anyway!

 

[Mutant Lemming]

They do not always sell the full range of tickets and can't deal the occasional travellers problems/queries. A lady at St.Pancras wanted to get a ticket to Borehamwood and was amazed she could not find such a popular station on the a to z list so gave up on the machine and went to the ticket window where the ticket she wanted was sold to her instantlly

 

[island]

They do not always sell the full range of tickets and can't deal the occasional travellers problems/queries. A lady at St.Pancras wanted to get a ticket to Borehamwood and was amazed she could not find such a popular station on the a to z list so gave up on the machine and went to the ticket window where the ticket she wanted was sold to her instantlly

Would that be because the station she wanted is listed under E perchance?

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Would that be because the station she wanted is listed under E perchance?

The point being a member of staff knows what you mean when you ask whereas the machine doesn't.

Let's say you wanted to go to Belfast City Centre - you could ask the person at the counter what station is best. If you just had a machine to go by you would probably assume it was Belfast Central.

 

[Shaggy]

Also using a TVM tends to give employment to electronics manufacture workers in China instead of giving employment to booking clerks in UK.
And humans are much more helpful than machines in emergency situations.

Not everyone is motivated by selfish concerns although it is more common post-Thatcherism.

Yawn.

I never cease to be amazed how some clearly obsessed people manage to bring up Maggie Thatcher's name as if that is the reason and cause for everything.

Listen to yourself. Yes, it is because of Margaret Thatcher that people use TVMs instead of a booking clerk.

Is there any supposed ill she is not responsible for?

Baffled.

For the record, I am happy for the choice we have. However 9 times out of ten I choose to use a booking clerk as I like to support people's employment. Same as in a supermarket. I even use a bank teller to withdraw money where I can.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Yawn.

I never cease to be amazed how some clearly obsessed people manage to bring up Maggie Thatcher's name as if that is the reason and cause for everything.

.

If she had virtually declared war on you and yours and used the power of the media to lie and hoodwink the public then you may not be too well disposed toward her either. Those of us with longer memories will NEVER forgive her and her ilk. Although for an equally balanced 38 ton lorry load of stone chips on the other shoulder - Blair isn't too far behind in the 'worse leader this country has ever had' stakes.

 

[Chapeltom]

Yeah but you shouldn't have to do research in to what ticket you need just to buy a ticket. You should be able to turn up and buy the right ticket easily.

You then go on to say that in Thailand it is Machine or nothing. Later you say there are no machines. You then go on to say you mainly use buses. Are you one of the people who programs the TVM's because you seem to display the same confused thinking.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just to flesh this out further I was recently in Berlin. I had done research in to what ticket I needed. The TVM just wasn't very well set up to give me it and I ended up with the wrong ticket that cost more. I think the TVM was referring to a single meaning for one person as opposed to for a single journey. Maybe I should have done more research in to how DB's TVM's work but I shouldn't have to. If you are going to replace a person with a machine then you shouldn't need to pass a course in how to use it.

If you making a journey by train you should know where you want to go/when if you are returning. We have to accept in the UK there are different restrictions for different tickets, that's life because of the way things are structured. It doesn't take 5 minutes on BRFares.com to find what ticket you need to buy on the day for a simple journey.

Yeah, I said it is machine or nothing on the BTS, MRT or Airport Rail Link. I also said there are no machines for train tickets because there aren't. There was nothing confusing about what I said. But here it is again anyway. Perhaps for trains, I could have said on the State Railway of Thailand there are no ticket machines and made it clearer.

"Here in Bangkok on the MRT/ARL/BTS, its either machines or nothing! Its not that often I use them but its in Thai or English, you pick your station/fare, insert cash and you get your token or 'ticket'. Easy. On trains here, there are no machines and only single tickets, no peak fares, its as simple as you get. Go to the ticket office, say the station and class of travel if relevant, hand over money and done, seconds. I mainly use buses though here and never see anyone but Thais on them!"

I do mainly use buses, so what? I'm just explaining how it is here, if you want to use the BTS, ARL or MRT in Bangkok you have to use a machine. I live nowhere near any of those three modes of travel, but do sometimes have to use them. If you want to buy a ticket for a real train, you deal with a real human, there are no machines as your ticket is only valid on one train.

 

[DaleCooper]

Not everyone is motivated by selfish concerns although it is more common post-Thatcherism.

If she had virtually declared war on you and yours and used the power of the media to lie and hoodwink the public then you may not be too well disposed toward her either. Those of us with longer memories will NEVER forgive her and her ilk. Although for an equally balanced 38 ton lorry load of stone chips on the other shoulder - Blair isn't too far behind in the 'worse leader this country has ever had' stakes.

Have you two been reading my mind?

 

[jon0844]

Would that be because the station she wanted is listed under E perchance?

Indeed. Why don't TVMs show partial matches that gradually eliminate? Fuzzy logic for misspelling too (not an A to Z list where characters gradually grey out but you must know the exact spelling and formatting). And is it King's Cross or London King's Cross?

You can't even enter the three digit station codes to be 100% sure you're picking the right station.

 

[Shaggy]

If she had virtually declared war on you and yours and used the power of the media to lie and hoodwink the public then you may not be too well disposed toward her either. Those of us with longer memories will NEVER forgive her and her ilk. Although for an equally balanced 38 ton lorry load of stone chips on the other shoulder - Blair isn't too far behind in the 'worse leader this country has ever had' stakes.

Thanks for the political lecture. If I wanted a discussion on political history I'll go to such a forum. However I'm here on this thread to discuss why some people queue rather than use a TVM. Unless I'm in the wrong place?

Regardless, dragging up her name in a discussion regarding TVMs seems a little silly and over the top to me.

 

[Holly]

Yawn.
I never cease to be amazed how some clearly obsessed people manage to bring up Maggie Thatcher's name as if that is the reason and cause for everything.
Listen to yourself. Yes, it is because of Margaret Thatcher that people use TVMs instead of a booking clerk. ...

You are misrepresenting me. I never suggested that.

My innuendo was that modernly British people are, on the whole, ruder and more selfish as a consequence of her policies. More specifically by destroying industry in order to take power from the unions and to convert Britain into an international centre for money laundering and loan sharking. Financial services is how Britain earning its living nowadays and it is inevitable that that Ponzi scheme will one day burst. And Britain will return to its industrial and maritime roots.

Fact remains that railway money is better spent on booking clerks than on robots. And many people queue for the booking office because they realise that.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Thanks for the political lecture. If I wanted a discussion on political history I'll go to such a forum. However I'm here on this thread to discuss why some people queue rather than use a TVM. Unless I'm in the wrong place?

Regardless, dragging up her name in a discussion regarding TVMs seems a little silly and over the top to me.

Maybe, but my response was to you mentioning it's name.

 

[snail]

I even use a bank teller to withdraw money where I can.

I did that for the first time in ages today. By the time I had entered my PIN into the machine she gave me, signed the payment slip and told her what denominations I want I could see why the bank are replacing counter staff with machines...