Why do some people begrudge showing their ticket?

[Starmill]

Take out "Guard" in the above post and insert "Passenger", and you have an explination as to why some of my colleagues may not be the cheery souls we are always expected to be!

Some of you are Kudos to the one from everybody's friendly (huh) TOC, Northern, who I saw wearing a Santa hat on an adjacent 323 approaching Manchester Pic this morn!!!

It cheers my soul to think at least one person is willing not only to make the effort, but also to risk the stick for it!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't agree, frontline staff are not there to take abuse from anyone.

I go by the theory of treating people how they treat me, ask a sharp question without manners and you'll get a sharp answer off me, albeit polite but blunt. (e.g. someone comes up to me and just says "Wimbledon?" and I reply with "Platform 11")

Shouting/Abusive language/Patronising tone will be met with polite refusal to deal with the person and calling security staff to assist if it continues.

However my approach is to deal with every person as an individual, I do not let someone else who I dealt with earlier affect how I deal with others.

This made me laugh, it really did, but in a nice way. I'd feel terrible if I just walked up to someone I'd never met before and just blurted out a station! Also, I'd not be too sure of getting their attention!

That said, one cannot argue that this is more efficient. Which is good for the customer because they are out of your face faster and onto the train. But it's good for you because you can get back to assisting other people, who might have more complicated queries (Does this REALLY need to be queried with a member of staff in the first place? Are departure boards not plastered the walls over where you work?), or of course, doing the rest of your job.

Economists may talk to you about "Allocative Efficiency" - which the railway industry could do with a fair bit more of, true, but efficiency can be so cold sometimes.

 

[Nym]

I don't agree, frontline staff are not there to take abuse from anyone.

I go by the theory of treating people how they treat me, ask a sharp question without manners and you'll get a sharp answer off me, albeit polite but blunt. (e.g. someone comes up to me and just says "Wimbledon?" and I reply with "Platform 11")

You should do something like shout; "TENNIS!" then apologise that you thought it was an impromptu word association excersise as no member of polite socity would behave like that.

 

[gingerheid]

You should do something like shout; "TENNIS!" then apologise that you thought it was an impromptu word association excersise as no member of polite socity would behave like that.

And risk being rude to a tourist.

I've been plenty blunt when I've been abroad... on the grounds that "Excuse me please, what platform and track is it for X" could actually be too much for me!

 

[455driver]

ask a sharp question without manners and you'll get a sharp answer off me, albeit polite but blunt. (e.g. someone comes up to me and just says "Wimbledon?" and I reply with "Platform 11")

I would have said "no Clapham Junction", but thats just me.

I wonder if everyone going on about staff should never be rude/ obnoxious/ignorant/arrogant etc to members of the public have ever worked in a customer facing role?

Try going into a bank/ pub/restaurant etc and shouting at the staff and see what happens. But oh no thats different they say, rail staff should stand there and take the abuse, doff their cap and say "thank you sir/madam".Not likely sunshine.

 

[Dennis C]

I wonder if everyone going on about staff should never be rude/ obnoxious/ignorant/arrogant etc to members of the public have ever worked in a customer facing role?

I'm ever so sorry that you missed my post stating that I had worked in a customer facing role. I hope you find it as I don't wish for to pay a penalty fare or get put off at the next station.

 

[Goatboy]

I wonder if everyone going on about staff should never be rude/ obnoxious/ignorant/arrogant etc to members of the public have ever worked in a customer facing role?

I have yes - for a number of reasons. Hence I sympathise with just how obnoxious some of them can be. But thats the job of a professional - to rise above that and be the better person. If the customer is just too rude or too abusive there are proceedures in place which don't involve being rude back.

 

[Nym]

And risk being rude to a tourist.

I've been plenty blunt when I've been abroad... on the grounds that "Excuse me please, what platform and track is it for X" could actually be too much for me!

You've not met that many tourists in London then...

Most of them tend to be the most polite and appreciative people you come acrosss, especially the Americans. British tourists tend to expect you to know all of London and get anoyed when you don't know some obscure street at the far end of the Central Line. "Yes Sir, but I would like to remind you that there are approximately 270,000 streets in Greater London, if you know the nearest Underground, DLR, Tramlink or National Rail station I can help you much quicker, but without this information I'm stuck to looking it up on an AtoZ for you..." (We have these in the GLAP)

Cue the complaint about me, "Not being from round here..." when the three staff on this gateline were from Yorkshire via Lancashire (me), Fife, and Birmingham...

Then of course the numerous times I've sent someone up the far end of the Northern Line, no matter how many times you ask them, "Edgeware or Edgeware Road?" they still end up in North London when they wanted to be at the Hilton next to a rather ugly BSP. They complain at me about an hour later usually...

Watford was another fun one, usually followed by, "Go back to Euston..."

I would have said "no Clapham Junction", but thats just me.

I wonder if everyone going on about staff should never be rude/ obnoxious/ignorant/arrogant etc to members of the public have ever worked in a customer facing role?

Try going into a bank/ pub/restaurant etc and shouting at the staff and see what happens. But oh no thats different they say, rail staff should stand there and take the abuse, doff their cap and say "thank you sir/madam".Not likely sunshine.

If you couldn't tell... I have, several times. To come with this I have hundreds of examples of abject stupidity from my time working at Manchester Airport. Not to mention stupid questions at Legoland, while working in Goverment Contact Centres, or when I'm delivering their cheese...

 

[gswindale]

I have yes - for a number of reasons. Hence I sympathise with just how obnoxious some of them can be. But thats the job of a professional - to rise above that and be the better person. If the customer is just too rude or too abusive there are proceedures in place which don't involve being rude back.

Yes there are, but that doesn't answer the problem that some people claim the guard (or whoever) was rude to them when it was perfectly clear that they weren't.

Now, based on what some have posted; a complaint about a guard being rude should lead to instant dismissal - rubbish. A discussion about what happened and a letter to the passenger explaining the situation and referring to the perception of their conduct as well as that of the member of staff in question would be better.

In my job; we often have people ranting at us over the phone. Frequently; if we simply state the facts and are as polite as we can be about taking further action to recover debt we get accused of being rude and not listening. Primarily that is because if you are rude to us; we will not try and help & speak to our clients regarding pmt plans to clear your commercial rent arrears but will advise we will seek instructions to take further action.

Quite simple - you explain the problem and we'll try to help. You rant and we won't. At all times we'll be professional but you'll see it differently as you won't get the desired outcome.

 

[WestCoast]

I think the point about being blunt was for tourists with more limited English. Britain still does have that 'polite society' aspect, which in my experience doesn't exist in certain places!

In English, for example, if you want something to do something for you, you do not merely go up to that person and ask them to do something for you. Oh no. That would be a large faux pas of the social variety. Instead you must first enquire about their health, their families health, their children’s health, the weather, the activities of the previous weekend, the plans of the upcoming weekend, the joy or ecstasy related to the outcome of the most recent televised football match, then, finally, you can say "by the way",

 

[Nym]

I think the point about being blunt was for tourists with more limited English. Britain still does have that 'polite society' aspect, which in my experience doesn't exist in certain places!

You can be to the point and still polite though. Some texans proved this very well on Allsop Place when they were lost and asking a gang of people with orange high vis and survey equipment...

 

[WestCoast]

You can be to the point and still polite though. Some texans proved this very well on Allsop Place when they were lost and asking a gang of people with orange high vis and survey equipment...

Yes, I know what you mean. Something like "Hello, is it this way for X, please?" is perfectly polite to me. I have worked in customer facing roles and do find that people will ask a person in uniform anything!

 

[sarahj]

Back to the OP, its when you have passengers doing what we call the dance'. ie the shuffle around checking every pocket and bag. After watching this go on for a while, they then admit, they dont have a ticket.

I also find it funny when you see some 50 year old bald pass and their photcard shows a 20 year old with 70's hair and a kipper tie. I have said 'love the picture', does get a smile back.

Barriers are all well and go, but remember the ones at Victoria will let you through with a 2 zone travel card, but you might be going to Brighton. Or they might let someone through who has a ticket to Brighton, but its a advance ticket for a train 6 hours later. There is a limit to what info can be stored on the mag strip and what the barriers can understand.

SJ
Can I see Tickets please

 

[Nym]

Yes, I know what you mean. Something like "Hello, is it this way for X, please?" is perfectly polite to me. I have worked in customer facing roles and do find that people will ask a person in uniform anything!

Yeah, they were walking from Lords to Madame Tosords (^sp) and were going the right way. I was walking out of the Tube Lines / London Underground offices on Allsop Place at the time so I suppose that's reason enough for people to think I know where to go...

Even when I'm working I don't have a problem directing polite people, but if someone's obnoxious then I don't really have to help them

 

[gingerheid]

I think the point about being blunt was for tourists with more limited English.

Yes. I was thinking of all the journeys across Latvia I made using no more than place names and hand gestures!

 

[elagueesti]

On the subject of showing tickets, I made a journey today from King's Cross to Welwyn Garden City *and* back again - the barriers are both ends were open the entire time and not once was I asked for my ticket on the train.

Now, we on this forum all know fare evasion is wrong so we buy our tickets. But is it any wonder that people do try and chance it when on some occasions it requires no subterfuge or cunning of any kind?

 

[Dennis C]

However my approach is to deal with every person as an individual, I do not let someone else who I dealt with earlier affect how I deal with others.

Well said, I hope your colleagues read this and behave accordingly.

 

[Flamingo]

Well said, I hope your colleagues read this and behave accordingly.

Are you going to do this as well

 

[exile]

If someone asked to see my ticket after about 7pm on my local service I'd probably die of shock.

 

[Dennis C]

YES, never any doubt. Name the pub and we can discuss it in there

 

[455driver]

If the customer is just too rude or too abusive there are proceedures in place which don't involve being rude back.

There are, walk away from them.

 

[Goatboy]

I do sympathise with staff - some of the things I heard from passengers at Taunton yesterday were just unbeleivable. The staff were mostly dealing with it very well.

 

[455driver]

You've not met that many {foreign} tourists in London then...

Most of them tend to be the most polite and appreciative people you come acrosss, especially the Americans.

Exactly, I don think I have ever had an issue with a foreign tourist, always well mannered and polite.

 

[Nym]

Exactly, I don think I have ever had an issue with a foreign tourist, always well mannered and polite.

Fair point, should have qualified that as forgin tourists, although certain nationalities are complete prats, most are really nice

 

[GadgetMan]

You don't agree? You think it's acceptable to be rude to customers in some circumstances?

Define customer?

As the majority of people I have problems with on board get on with every intention to avoid paying for their journey. And when you dare to challenge them for some form of payment they become threatening and abusive. These are not customers, in the same way as a shop lifter is not a customer.

Yes the official policy is to walk away, but this in my opinion is counter productive as it only goes to encourage them to continue to behave in this manner knowing most Guards will follow policy and let them travel for free unchallenged.

Some times it is necessary to speak their language and tell them exactly what will happen if they don't shut up and pay up. Having done the job for 10 years I can assure you that in the majority of cases where I have had to stoop to their level I have got payment out of them followed by mostly peace and quiet up until they get off the train at which point their bravery kicks in again enough to call me a few names and show me some fingers.

However, as soon as I have finished interacting with the little spoilt darlings I return to my normal polite manner when dealing with the other passengers with a small apology for language used to the passengers sat immediately around the area where the conversation took place. Most passengers are glad to see fare dodgers dealt with effectively and make comments along the lines of "Well done, I couldn't do your job..." etc.

I prefer doing the above than to walk away back to my cab as I don't see that as being fair on those that have paid for their journey, it also means I can continue walking down the train to answer questions other passengers may have and providing the service they have paid for and expect.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Define customer?

As the majority of people I have problems with on board get on with every intention to avoid paying for their journey. And when you dare to challenge them for some form of payment they become threatening and abusive. These are not customers, in the same way as a shop lifter is not a customer.

Yes the official policy is to walk away, but this in my opinion is counter productive as it only goes to encourage them to continue to behave in this manner knowing most Guards will follow policy and let them travel for free unchallenged.

Some times it is necessary to speak their language and tell them exactly what will happen if they don't shut up and pay up. Having done the job for 10 years I can assure you that in the majority of cases where I have had to stoop to their level I have got payment out of them followed by mostly peace and quiet up until they get off the train at which point their bravery kicks in again enough to call me a few names and show me some fingers.

However, as soon as I have finished interacting with the little spoilt darlings I return to my normal polite manner when dealing with the other passengers with a small apology for language used to the passengers sat immediately around the area where the conversation took place. Most passengers are glad to see fare dodgers dealt with effectively and make comments along the lines of "Well done, I couldn't do your job..." etc.

I prefer doing the above than to walk away back to my cab as I don't see that as being fair on those that have paid for their journey, it also means I can continue walking down the train to answer questions other passengers may have and providing the service they have paid for and expect.

I once had a lively interraction with a youth coming out of Liverpool. When it transpired he had no ticket and no money, and I wasn't in the mood for report writing, I instructed him off the train at the next stop.

"You can't do this, I've got to get to X, you can't treat customers like this." he said.

"Correct, I can't treat customers like this. But you are not a customer. Customers pay for things. You haven't, and have no means of doing so. You are not a customer, so get off my train" I replied.

He did get off, probably out of shock for getting some lip back. It also caused much amusement with the real customers.

 

[AndyLandy]

There are, walk away from them.

Thinking more on this, I also think there's a huge gulf between not being obsequious and actually being rude. Some customers expect obsequiousness from staff and think anything less is rude. "I'm terribly sorry sir, and I can only apologise, but it appears that your railcard may no longer be valid. We sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused."

Sometimes, you have to drop the obsequiousness and be a bit more forceful and blunt with a customer. But you shouldn't ever have to stoop so low as actually being rude. Of course, oftentimes when you do this, you're instantly accused of being rude. "No sir, I've already explained, it isn't valid, you need to pay more for your journey."

 

[Goatboy]

"Correct, I can't treat customers like this. But you are not a customer. Customers pay for things. You haven't, and have no means of doing so. You are not a customer, so get off my train" I replied.

Can't disagree with that. Fare dodgers are not customers and in the same way that I wouldnt expect the police to call a shoplifter 'sir' when they arrest him, I wouldn't expect rail staff to be ultra courteous to people who dont think tickets to apply to them

 

[jbb]

You need to be careful though and absolutely certain you are right.

I had a yearly season ticket, brand new the day before, and the person inspecting the tickets on a train insisted that I was travelling on an out of date season ticket (because the date on it was the day before _but for the next year_) and clearly wasn't listening to me and instead gave me a patronising lecture about how everyone else paid for their tickets and I should be ashamed of myself and would be prosecuted. I must admit after that I cracked and accused him of being too stupid to read a ticket. It got sorted when another member of staff explained to him what I was saying.

Clearly he wasnt even listening to my "excuse" but when another member of staff said something it sunk in. I didnt even get an apology though.

Now I understand how this happens, they must see people with flimsy excuses each and every day, but he was downright rude and offensive to me. I thought about making a complaint at the time but decided we all have bad days :P

Anyway my point isn't to blame the railway staff for a one off incident when generally I've been treated very well, I know that there are the occasional bad person in an otherwise good crowd, and everyone has bad days, but to say be careful if you think someone isn't a customer, if yoy are wrong that doesn't look good at all.

 

[elagueesti]

I've seen rude passengers and I've seen rude staff. Rudeness exists everywhere in life, alas.

 

[tsr]

I actually had the opposite experience with a Northern conductor. I opened up my wallet and thought the leather was partially obstructing the ticket but the conductor looked and said "That's fine. You don't need to take it out."

Southern conductors will sometimes do this if they are particularly busy (or if they recognise me, which a number of them do!).

I do very occasionally get "Same ticket as yesterday, sir? Good... thank you!" or similar phrases uttered in my direction.

Note to fare dodgers: This is not always the case! Many checks are much more thorough.