Why do some bay platforms require reversing moves to access them?

[brad465]

As per the title, there are platforms, particularly bay ones, where the only way for a passenger train to get to them is to reverse into it from another platform/line. In this instance a train sets down passengers in another platform, is shunted empty into the bay, then passengers board for the next service which then drives out normally. Two examples that come to mind are Taunton P6, and the bay platform at Oxted. This setup results in trains obstructing other lines more often to access them, and/or other platforms being preferred for use, blocking up capacity through these (this happens a lot at Taunton, which while normally not a big problem, causes issues when one or two services are late).

Reasons for this arrangement I can think of include: cheaper infrastructure, fewer points (particularly facing points), necessary pointwork for direct access also requiring a line speed reduction, and a setup that is now obsolete/problematic, but can't be changed until full resignalling is due (there is desire to sort the Taunton setup out, but no idea if/when the resignalling here is due). Are these the reasons, and/or are there others?

 

[edwin_m]

In the steam era, unless they used push-pull or railmotors, most local trains would have been taken out by the same locomotive that brought them in. One way to do this would be for it to arrive on a through platform, run round the stock there or nearby and then shunt it back into a bay to await departure time. If this was done then direct access into the bay wasn't really needed. But with most such workings going over to units or disappearing completely 60 or more years (and probably at least one major re-signalling) ago it's quite surprising that some surviving bay platforms can still only be used in this inefficient way.

 

[Magdalia]

It is a very traditional way of operating branch line connections, driven by the asymmetry between arrivals and departures.

When the terminating branch train arrives and terminates, everyone is getting out immediately, and the train can move away empty within a few minutes, before the main line train arrives. If this is done in the main line platform, then passengers coming in off the branch can just wait on the same platform for the main line train to arrive.

The branch train then shunts to the branch platform, clearing the main line in both directions. Once the train is in the branch platform it is available for anyone not connecting from the main line, and, when the main line train arrives, those making connections can do a cross platform interchange from one train to the other.

Leamington Spa is somewhere that I have not been to for a long time, but Real Time Trains and the Open Train Times Map suggests that the Stratford upon Avon branch train still does this just like I remember when it was a bubble car in the 1970s.

It is a method of operation that has almost completely died out as a result of many more platforms having bidirectional signalling, which is a shame, because it is very convenient for passengers changing trains.

 

[Class 170101]

Huntingdon Platform 1 is only accessible by a shunt and as such is only used for departures, and not very many these days.

Romford Platform 1 (the Upminster branch) is also only accessible to / from the Up Main and another shunt on top so it can't have services beyond Romford (especially from London).

 

[Magdalia]

Huntingdon Platform 1 is only accessible by a shunt and as such is only used for departures, and not very many these days.

It is a very long time ago now when Huntingdon platform 1 was used in this way, by the DMU shuttles before electrification. The Open Train Times Map shows it out of use.

I can't recall there being any Huntingdon starters in the timetable since the 2018 Thameslink changes. Before that there was a 1622 Kings Cross-Huntingdon and 1804 back, but that ran to Conington to reverse and started its return journey in platform 2. My recollection of the 1988-2018 period is that the limited use of platform 1 was by trains coming off Nene sidings, and not starting at Peterborough because of platform capacity issues there.

 

[zwk500]

Reasons for this arrangement I can think of include: cheaper infrastructure, fewer points (particularly facing points), necessary pointwork for direct access also requiring a line speed reduction, and a setup that is now obsolete/problematic, but can't be changed until full resignalling is due (there is desire to sort the Taunton setup out, but no idea if/when the resignalling here is due). Are these the reasons, and/or are there others?

Historically there was a strong preference to avoid facing points for safety reasons, and a lot of the older layouts of stations, particularly freight connections, show signs of this. Setting back into a platform also helped avoid the need for a separate release loco, which for a stopping or branch service would have been a significant cost.
Not too long ago, there was lots of spare capacity available for such shunts but in the last 10-15 years the network has rapidly got a lot busier.

 

[stuu]

Taunton is down to how it was rationalised in the 1980s, two of the lines to Cogload Jct were removed as well as most of the crossings either end of the station. There seems to be only one service scheduled into P6 and that is at 0510 which would explain why I haven't seen anything in it for years.

 

[172007]

It is a very traditional way of operating branch line connections, driven by the asymmetry between arrivals and departures.

When the terminating branch train arrives and terminates, everyone is getting out immediately, and the train can move away empty within a few minutes, before the main line train arrives. If this is done in the main line platform, then passengers coming in off the branch can just wait on the same platform for the main line train to arrive.

The branch train then shunts to the branch platform, clearing the main line in both directions. Once the train is in the branch platform it is available for anyone not connecting from the main line, and, when the main line train arrives, those making connections can do a cross platform interchange from one train to the other.

Leamington Spa is somewhere that I have not been to for a long time, but Real Time Trains and the Open Train Times Map suggests that the Stratford upon Avon branch train still does this just like I remember when it was a bubble car in the 1970s.

It is a method of operation that has almost completely died out as a result of many more platforms having bidirectional signalling, which is a shame, because it is very convenient for passengers changing trains.

Leamington is i believe due to rationalising the layout decades ago.

These days you can't simply arrive, chuck everyone off and shunt over. Firstly doubles if not trebles the number of train movements at a busy place. It requires single units or walk thoughs as Network Rail do not seem to be proactive in installing authorised walking routes to go between vehicles; we don't walk on ballast except in emergencies.

Many shunt moves still use points that are not locked or have a dwell time. Any passenger over carried causes a safety issue. Hereford for example if a passenger accidently gets taken to the old fuel roads then Network Rail staff have to come out and I believe it's to clip the points.

Emptying a train properly to make sure no one has sneaked on can take more than a few minutes, especially when explaining to people just sat down that they need to get off walkover and get back on the same train. It requires realising the doors, walking through, closing the doors, walking back checking the toilets. Again this is a issue at busy locations like Leamington.

 

[Magdalia]

It requires single units or walk thoughs as Network Rail do not seem to be proactive in installing authorised walking routes to go between vehicles; we don't walk on ballast except in emergencies.

In the days of bubble cars on the Leamington-Stratford route, walking through didn't take long. Similarly, when it was done regularly at Huntingdon, the trains were MetCam twins. The reversal at Conington had a walking route.

 

[Annetts key]

Historically there was a strong preference to avoid facing points for safety reasons, and a lot of the older layouts of stations, particularly freight connections, show signs of this. Setting back into a platform also helped avoid the need for a separate release loco, which for a stopping or branch service would have been a significant cost.
Not too long ago, there was lots of spare capacity available for such shunts but in the last 10-15 years the network has rapidly got a lot busier.

Trailing points were also considerably cheaper to install and maintain compared to facing points with a FPL (facing point lock) in the past.

Plus, full passenger standard bi-directional signalling added yet more cost.

These days, where point operating equipment has a FPL (or equivalent) as standard (even on training points) there is no significant difference in cost.

And cost of full passenger standard bi-directional signalling is less of an issue, as the cost compared to the overall scheme has fallen. Especially if this adds flexibility

Shunting engines/locomotives and trains was extremely common in the past. Remember, a lot of the layouts designed in the 1960s and 1970s were intended for loco and coaches. As although DMUs, Bubble Cars etc. did exist, there were still plenty of conventional loco hauled trains in use.

So, taking all these things together, it was cheaper and normalised. Since then the way the railway operates has changed.

Taunton is down to how it was rationalised in the 1980s, two of the lines to Cogload Jct were removed as well as most of the crossings either end of the station. There seems to be only one service scheduled into P6 and that is at 0510 which would explain why I haven't seen anything in it for years.

Taunton, like a lot of places that were "modernised" throughout the 1960s to late 1980s was designed for either the same level of traffic (trains) as at the time, or even a decline. Not many thought that that the railways would experience a growth in passengers.

This is also the reason that various stations have bay platforms that either are not provided with full passenger standard signalling, or no longer have suitable points to allow a passenger train to use these platforms. The last time that the layout was changed, to minimise costs without removing the line (because it was used at the time for goods traffic), only shunt signals and limited points were provided.

Many examples exist, including platform 2 at Bristol Temple Meads, the (unnumbered) bay at Weston-super-Mare, the (unnumbered) Exeter direction, down side bay at Taunton etc.

Plus lots and lots of bay platforms disappeared completely (Bath Spa for example).

Back to Taunton, last year, or the year before, I travelled on passenger trains (at least twice within that two year time frame) that departed from platform 6 (the Bristol facing bay). So, as these were not special visits, it has and does happen on a routine basis in the afternoons (that's when I was travelling).

And if you look on Real Time Trains for Saturday (tomorrow), there are some booked trains for this platform.

 

[Tim M]

Hereford is another example of a bay platform that is unused due to the layout at the up (north) end of the station. At least departure signals were added on the island platform a few years ago so that GW and West Midland services towards Worcester could depart without having to reverse via the diesel sidings at the down (south) end of the station. Put simply Hereford needs a thorough remodelling with platform 4 bay used for WM services, P1 for GW and the other through platforms for TfW. One middle line might be all that is required for freight.

Mind the whole of the Hereford and Worcester area needs a rethink, two parallel single lines through Foregate Street and across the Severn river viaduct is inadequate for the current intensity of trains (say a dozen plus an hour), particularly those reversing.

 

[MarkyT]

Leamington is i believe due to rationalising the layout decades ago.

The layout is more or less exactly what was there under the previous mechanical signal box. That is because Leamington was the site of the first SSI pilot scheme, configured for the existing layout and set up to run in parallel shadow mode, mirroring events from the old system while being closely monitored by boffins in pursuit of type approval. Tests were conducted over several years before approval was obtained for the final trackside work and commissioning in 1985.

Taunton is down to how it was rationalised in the 1980s, two of the lines to Cogload Jct were removed as well as most of the crossings either end of the station. There seems to be only one service scheduled into P6 and that is at 0510 which would explain why I haven't seen anything in it for years.

While the 1980s simplification was dramatic, there was never a down passenger move into the London end bay on the up side. There were some additional bays on the down side however, from which up passenger departures could be made. I think these had already been removed before resignalling.

Taunton East Junction Signal Box

www.s-r-s.org.uk

Historically there was a strong preference to avoid facing points for safety reasons

In the very early days, regulations discouraged their widescale use for passenger operations, though that was before facing point locks had been developed, or any kind of interlocking!

 

[izvor]

Would Liskeard count, where the branch "bay" (at 90 degrees to the main line) is only accessed to/from the wider world by a shunt? Although the branch service is self-contained.

 

[Tester]

Would Liskeard count, where the branch "bay" (at 90 degrees to the main line) is only accessed to/from the wider world by a shunt? Although the branch service is self-contained.

Which leads nicely on to 'Shortest distance a passenger train can travel without reversing'!

 

[MarkyT]

Would Liskeard count, where the branch "bay" (at 90 degrees to the main line) is only accessed to/from the wider world by a shunt? Although the branch service is self-contained.

No. The branch train both arrives and departs from the same independent platform in that case. Empty moves transfer the unit to and from the branch at beginning and end of service via the connecting line, not signalled for passenger operations.

 

[WestAnglian]

A messy example was Twickenham platforms 1 and 2, presumably intended for rugby traffic. Down trains were unable to access the bays but had to reverse twice, once beyond the station to got over to the Up side then again having passed through the station to enter the bays.

 

[sh24]

Taunton P6 is used routinely by up trains heading to Cardiff. The down bay seems only used by excursion loco changes.

 

[etr221]

Romford Platform 1 (the Upminster branch) is also only accessible to / from the Up Main and another shunt on top so it can't have services beyond Romford (especially from London).

Originally it was a seperate station - the terminus of the LTSR (later Midland, then LMS) line from Grays via Upminster (whose raison d'etre was to link Romford (and its industry) to the docks at Grays and Tilbury). I think it was when the LNER that bit of the GEML in the early 1930s, rebuilding Romford station, that opportunity was taken to provide a common entrance for both railways/stations. AIUI, it was only when the LTS electrification happened, and there was segregation between the BR(LTS section) and LTE tracks at Upminster c1960 that the branch was reversed, to run from Romford to Upminster, rather than to Romford.

 

[southern442]

The bay platform at Oxted works in this way - arrivals into platform 1 and then shunt into platform 3, reversing on the lovely viaduct. Not a big deal at Oxted though as it only has the 2 East Grinstead trains per hour to contend with.

 

[Spartacus]

There's still a few stations in Ireland where the only possible way to access them at all from one direction is through a reverse maneuver, while the only way to access a route after leaving them is to do the same out on the main line. Killarney to and from Tralee's one example.

 

[izvor]

The bay platform at Oxted works in this way - arrivals into platform 1 and then shunt into platform 3, reversing on the lovely viaduct. Not a big deal at Oxted though as it only has the 2 East Grinstead trains per hour to contend with.

...and it only happens on Sundays in normal circumstances.

 

[zwk500]

There's still a few stations in Ireland where the only possible way to access them at all from one direction is through a reverse maneuver, while the only way to access a route after leaving them is to do the same out on the main line. Killarney to and from Tralee's one example.

Killarney to/from Tralee and Limerick Junction to/from Waterford are the only routes remaining in Ireland where reversals outside a platform take place in passenger service, IIRC - at Killarney Check and Limerick Junction Pocket Loop respectively.

AIUI there's a proposal for an additional platform at Limerick Junction to allow Waterford trains to call there without reversing..