Why do farmers vote Tory?

[Oswyntail]

Suicide rate among farmers is high because they have access to guns which the vast majority of the population don't.

What an idiotic contribution. What is the suicide rate amongst inner-city gangs, with their gun access? Sometimes I despair of contributors here.
There is a growing problem around the economics of farming, of all kinds, and so there are more farmers "in poverty". Like every sector of society.

 

[muddythefish]

There are many different ways of committing suicide. Why have you chosen to only mention one particular method....do you have the percentage rate amongst farmers for that particular method of committing suicide?

No, I don't, but is it relevant?

There have been 3 farming suicides in our area in the past decade or so - all have been by shotgun, so I think it's quite likely to be the normal method of suicide nationally.
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What an idiotic contribution. What is the suicide rate amongst inner-city gangs, with their gun access? Sometimes I despair of contributors here.
There is a growing problem around the economics of farming, of all kinds, and so there are more farmers "in poverty". Like every sector of society.

My post was in response to a previous poster who said that "not so very long ago, a radio snippet made mention that the suicide rate in farmers in the UK was the highest in any occupation".

In fact, he is incorrect, because the medical professions have a much higher suicide rate. But farming is still well above the average.

Your childish response makes you look idiotic.

 

[tony_mac]

I'm not sure that a discussion about the popularity of suicide methods is an ideal topic for this thread (or forum).

 

[muz379]

No, I don't, but is it relevant?

There have been 3 farming suicides in our area in the past decade or so - all have been by shotgun, so I think it's quite likely to be the normal method of suicide nationally.
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My post was in response to a previous poster who said that "not so very long ago, a radio snippet made mention that the suicide rate in farmers in the UK was the highest in any occupation".

In fact, he is incorrect, because the medical professions have a much higher suicide rate. But farming is still well above the average.

Your childish response makes you look idiotic.

but to suggest as you did is that the rates are high because they have access to guns is an idiotic comment . People dont just kill themselves because they have the means . Im pretty sure most of us would have a cocktail of drugs in the home that could kill us if taken in excess together but there has to be something more than the means to end our lives we have to be in that place mentally as well .

I mean if someone is so determined to end their life they will find a way .And if someone has no intentions towards ending their life having a gun lying around would not suddenly make them want to do it .

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I would personally consider, but grossly over-simplified for the convenience of the debate:

Conservatism / toryism / whatever you want to call it = letting the free markets decide as much as possible with regulation only for things like safety and protecting essential but uneconomic public services / infrastructure that there is a real risk everyone would otherwise "leave to everyone else".

Statism = The state does everything, or nearly everything, for everyone in the theoretical expectation that people will be so grateful to the Government that they will vote for it in perpetuity. Basically communism without the mandatory one party voting system. Requires very high taxation to fund on the one hand and involves unsustainably large state handouts on the other hand.

Socialism = in the middle between the two extremes.

Noting what you say above, this makes the phrase used from 1922 to 1991 of "The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics" by that Marxist-Lenininist grouping seem to be a "middle of the road" entity.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Noting what you say above, this makes the phrase used from 1922 to 1991 of "The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics" by that Marxist-Lenininist grouping seem to be a "middle of the road" entity.

Indeed, although the politburo's use of the word "Socialist" in the title would appear to be somewhat on the deliberately misleading side wouldn't it? Rather like the modern day comment that countries with the word "democratic" in their title are usually anything but...

 

[St Rollox]

So in the end it would be safe to say a lot of farmers vote Tory because their doing very nicely financially thanks.

 

[radamfi]

Suicide methods vary by what exists in the local area. According to

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_methods

The use of firearms in suicides ranges from less than 10% in Australia to 50.5% in the U.S., where it is the most common method of suicide.
...
Two separate studies, in Canada and Australia, conducted in conjunction with more restrictive firearms legislation, demonstrated that while legislation showed a decrease in firearms suicide, other methods such as hanging increased. In Australia, the overall rate of suicide continued along an increasing trend, not decreasing until measures specifically aimed to provide support for those intent on suicide were implemented

In western Europe where there are a lot of trains and strict gun laws, trains are a more typical way of committing suicide.

 

[muddythefish]

but to suggest as you did is that the rates are high because they have access to guns is an idiotic comment . People dont just kill themselves because they have the means Im pretty sure most of us would have a cocktail of drugs in the home that could kill us if taken in excess together but there has to be something more than the means to end our lives we have to be in that place mentally as well .

I mean if someone is so determined to end their life they will find a way .And if someone has no intentions towards ending their life having a gun lying around would not suddenly make them want to do it .

Before you post another idiotic message, you should read this study from Oxford university which confirms that "farmers who commit suicide tend to use methods to which they have easy access". In their case, guns.

http://cebmh.warne.ox.ac.uk/csr/resfarmers.html

 

[fowler9]

Here is why farmers vote Tory. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/17/farmers-uk-flood-maize-soil-protection

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Here is why farmers vote Tory. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/17/farmers-uk-flood-maize-soil-protection

Would you say that the Guardian are a totally unbiased newspaper who would not look for any politically biased viewpoint to add to this debate?

 

[Busaholic]

Indeed, although the politburo's use of the word "Socialist" in the title would appear to be somewhat on the deliberately misleading side wouldn't it? Rather like the modern day comment that countries with the word "democratic" in their title are usually anything but...

We also managed to do perfectly well in this country without a Ministry of Justice until its creation a few years ago, and its actions seem by and large to have created more injustice, especially under Mr Christopher Grayling, happily now deposed. The MoJ soubriquet puts me in mind of Mugabe's thugs.

Reverting to the original question, in West Cornwall the 2005 election saw plenty of UKIP placards amongst the farmers, interspersed with the odd Tory one. I realised the LibDems had probably lost the seat this time when the UKIP ones had been replaced with more for the Tories.

 

[fowler9]

Would you say that the Guardian are a totally unbiased newspaper who would not look for any politically biased viewpoint to add to this debate?

No, would you say that George Monbiot is scientifically or factually wrong?

 

[WelshBluebird]

Before you post another idiotic message, you should read this study from Oxford university which confirms that "farmers who commit suicide tend to use methods to which they have easy access". In their case, guns.

http://cebmh.warne.ox.ac.uk/csr/resfarmers.html

But that is just stating the obvious and is very different to what you originally claimed (that the high suicide rate amongst farmers is because they have the means).

 

[Oswyntail]

Before you post another idiotic message, you should read this study from Oxford university which confirms that "farmers who commit suicide tend to use methods to which they have easy access". In their case, guns.

http://cebmh.warne.ox.ac.uk/csr/resfarmers.html

I would think that applies to most people wishing to do anything. If I were to contemplate suicide would I choose an obscure method or one I had to hand?
Just stop digging - the hole is way too big as it is.
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No, would you say that George Monbiot is scientifically or factually wrong?

Often, yes. And, though sometimes right, he is inclined to give his opinion as fact. An unreliable columnist.

 

[fowler9]

I would think that applies to most people wishing to do anything. If I were to contemplate suicide would I choose an obscure method or one I had to hand?
Just stop digging - the hole is way too big as it is.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Often, yes. And, though sometimes right, he is inclined to give his opinion as fact. An unreliable columnist.

Hows about in this case? Do you feel he is wrong?

 

[muddythefish]

I would think that applies to most people wishing to do anything. If I were to contemplate suicide would I choose an obscure method or one I had to hand?
Just stop digging - the hole is way too big as it is.t.

There's no hole to dig - the Oxford study proves my point.

 

[Barn]

Wow, this thread got dark.

 

[Gathursty]

Even I don't know why this thread has gone off on this tangent.... >.<

 

[muz379]

Before you post another idiotic message, you should read this study from Oxford university which confirms that "farmers who commit suicide tend to use methods to which they have easy access". In their case, guns.

http://cebmh.warne.ox.ac.uk/csr/resfarmers.html

There's no hole to dig - the Oxford study proves my point.

Nobody is disputing that when selecting a method for suicide most people select a method that is accessible to them this is common sense and nobody has disputed that .

The post I dispute is

Suicide rate among farmers is high because they have access to guns which the vast majority of the population don't.

That oxford study you posted does not categorically say that the suicide rate is high among farmers because they have access to guns . In fact early on it mentions that "Psychiatric disorder, especially depressive disorder, occupational, relationship and financial problems and physical illness were common and important factors in the suicide deaths" .

It is idiotic to suggest that the suicide rate is high just because a given group have access to guns . I live a 10 minute walk away from a railway station with passing express trains . I live a 10 minute drive away from a motorway footbridge . I have a medicine cabinet full of drugs that could be lethal in combination .I have a car and a hosepipe I could use to poison myself the list goes on . This does not mean I am going to kill myself just because I have access to the methods to do so . There would have to be some psychological stressor to make me want to use one of those methods in the first place . It is the levels of psychological pressures on given groups that dictate the suicide rate surely ?

 

[muddythefish]

o use one of those methods in the first place . It is the levels of psychological pressures on given groups that dictate the suicide rate surely ?

It is idiotic to suggest the Oxford study does not back up my statement. Read it again.

 

[muz379]

It is idiotic to suggest the Oxford study does not back up my statement. Read it again.

I have read the oxford study . At no point does it provide proof that your statement is true . In fact it says many things which indicate that the suicide rate among farmers is influenced by factors which effect many groups

 

[ainsworth74]

This thread seems to have run it's course and has gone somewhat off-topic.

We do, surprisingly, actually have a thread about suicide which can be found here if anyone wishes to continue the discussion they are welcome to do so there.