Why do farmers vote Tory?

[Butts]

Anyone who thinks cutting benefits will lead to companies paying more lives in a fantasy realm or just doesn't care. The company I work for has a fixed price contract with the Government. If they cut benefits most of the staff will simply be worse off. There is no more money. Society could change this but the ones in control won't.

The only exception to this is possibly single people on a low wage who get no benefits.

When the minimum wage goes up to £7.20 I know some people who will rake in another £100 month plus....which is quite a lift on a low wage.

 

[Trog]

Quote by Phil.
Bliar

Luckily with that one little word we now know we can safely ignore anything you have to say.

Quite amusing that, as you yourself refer to the Conservatives as Tory's which is technically something of a racist remark. A Tory originally being an Irish outlaw or brigand, who I am sure would be greatly offended by being compared to a modern MP.

 

[fowler9]

The only exception to this is possibly single people on a low wage who get no benefits.

When the minimum wage goes up to £7.20 I know some people who will rake in another £100 month plus....which is quite a lift on a low wage.

That is of course really good. It will also put single people who pick up litter on a tiny bit less money than people with families who manage complex complaints etc. etc. who are getting their benefits cut. Now I am not being a snob about this but the living wage without forcing companies to give pay rises across the board gives no one any incentive to do anything other than the minimum possible. Why should I make an effort to get a job dealing with complaints from Wing Commanders and Brigadiers about Air Force Base runway lights not working when I can earn the same money cleaning bogs or flipping burgers.

 

[dcsprior]

That is of course really good. It will also put single people who pick up litter on a tiny bit less money than people with families who manage complex complaints etc. etc. who are getting their benefits cut. Now I am not being a snob about this but the living wage without forcing companies to give pay rises across the board gives no one any incentive to do anything other than the minimum possible. Why should I make an effort to get a job dealing with complaints from Wing Commanders and Brigadiers about Air Force Base runway lights not working when I can earn the same money cleaning bogs or flipping burgers.

I have sympathy with this. Around half of my working life so far was spent in a job where the pay scale ranged from around 1.25x to 1.75x National Minimum Wage - I wouldn't be surprised if in the short term, jobs like that (and possibly the job you describe) see decreased earnings relative to the average. That however doesn't mean that it's a bad thing in the long term.

I don't like the current UK government, but I do think they have 2 good policies: increased NMW and increased personal tax allowance.

 

[muddythefish]

As others have said already, farmers run businesses. Conservatives understand businesses, Labour never does. Conservatives expect a fair reward for a fair day's work - Labour see what benefits they can pay out to those who won't work.......

:roll:

ALERT: Daily Mail reader.

 

[Butts]

ALERT: Daily Mail reader.

More like The Beano I would say

 

[muddythefish]

Our Conservative MP is from a farming family.

The Conservatives seemingly have a lot more pro-farming policies than Labour - I believe the Lib Dems did have more pro-farmer policies.

Tories were traditionally landowners with a general antipathy to towns and the labouring classes who work in them, so it's no surprise farmers continue to vote Conservative.

It annoys me intensely during elections when farmers place Vote Tory hoardings in their fields next to main roads. The hoardings do make good bonfires though.

 

[fowler9]

Tories were traditionally landowners with a general antipathy to towns and the labouring classes who work in them, so it's no surprise farmers continue to vote Conservative.

It annoys me intensely during elections when farmers place Vote Tory hoardings in their fields next to main roads. The hoardings do make good bonfires though.

Quite how a tiny minority of land owners come across as being working class because running a farm sounds hard baffles me. Why would anyone assume land owners would vote Labour?

 

[Gathursty]

I've followed this thread and I think I appreciate the issue of farmers a bit more. They obviously need a party which provides a view on badgers/GM foods/urban encroachment/immigration/taxes and costs to do with farming which helps them.

I've been concentrating on farmers as labourers but nowadays with technology and devolvement to gangmasters, it would be more precise to class them as managers and land-owners which helps me to see why more would be Tory voters than anyone else.

 

[Groningen]

I think they vote Tory, because than they have no restrictions in how mant lifestock they can have. What they forget to understand is that much of something is low in profit; less has more profit. Look at the prices for milk!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It annoys me intensely during elections when farmers place Vote Tory hoardings in their fields next to main roads. The hoardings do make good bonfires though.

Does it also annoy you intensely when Labour Party large billboards display the party message in urban areas next to main roads and does your enthusiasm for bonfires also apply in this case.

 

[Busaholic]

The poorest county in England is Cornwall, where Labour have only ever been represented in the Camborne-Redruth area, and then only occasionally and with a slim majority. Discuss.

 

[Butts]

The poorest county in England is Cornwall, where Labour have only ever been represented in the Camborne-Redruth area, and then only occasionally and with a slim majority. Discuss.

I suppose Cornwall is largely a rural County without any large Cities or Industrial Heartlands that tend to attract Labour supporting swathes of individuals.

In Scotland the mainly rural areas tended to be represented by Conservative or Liberals and now the SNP. However occasionally you got the odd blip like Western Isles having a Labour MP. The same situation in Wales with Labour largely restricted to Cities and Coal Mining / Steel Areas.

Perhaps the quality of life has something to do with it as well. Is it better to be poor in the Country than the City.

 

[Phil.]

ALERT: Daily Mail reader.

Quite possibly so but the records show that generally this is a correct statement.

 

[fowler9]

I have sympathy with this. Around half of my working life so far was spent in a job where the pay scale ranged from around 1.25x to 1.75x National Minimum Wage - I wouldn't be surprised if in the short term, jobs like that (and possibly the job you describe) see decreased earnings relative to the average. That however doesn't mean that it's a bad thing in the long term.

I don't like the current UK government, but I do think they have 2 good policies: increased NMW and increased personal tax allowance.

I totally agree that something has to be done to increase poor pay at the bottom end but it does nothing to increase pay ever so slightly higher up the scale. If a living wage got brought in for all jobs I would bin off doing what I do tomorrow because it isn't worth the stress. Lets face it, what is basically the customer service sector isn't going to suddenly start paying people more. It does however actually take some skill, natural talent and training to be done well. I am personally thinking of going on the black cabs. That is not to say that it takes no skill or training or natural ability but I have seen several friends start doing it for far less stress and more money of late.

 

[muddythefish]

Does it also annoy you intensely when Labour Party large billboards display the party message in urban areas next to main roads and does your enthusiasm for bonfires also apply in this case.

Certainly not, Victorian Dad, because I am a Labour party member and supporter and I want a socialist PM in Downing Street.
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Quite possibly so but the records show that generally this is a correct statement.

What is and what records ?

 

[Oswyntail]

Certainly not, Victorian Dad, because I am a Labour party member and supporter and I want a socialist PM in Downing Street...

As this thread has been meandering around many of the old cliches and prejudices, it might be worth asking what anyone understands by a "Socialist PM". Mature responses only - none of this "Tories are vermin" rubbish, which adds nothing to understanding.
How would "socialism" be expressed in social policy, fiscal and economic policy, international relations? What level of socialism would be necessary before a PM is considered "socialist"?
Genuinely interested.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I would personally consider, but grossly over-simplified for the convenience of the debate:

Conservatism / toryism / whatever you want to call it = letting the free markets decide as much as possible with regulation only for things like safety and protecting essential but uneconomic public services / infrastructure that there is a real risk everyone would otherwise "leave to everyone else".

Statism = The state does everything, or nearly everything, for everyone in the theoretical expectation that people will be so grateful to the Government that they will vote for it in perpetuity. Basically communism without the mandatory one party voting system. Requires very high taxation to fund on the one hand and involves unsustainably large state handouts on the other hand.

Socialism = in the middle between the two extremes.

 

[Barn]

I have sympathy with this. Around half of my working life so far was spent in a job where the pay scale ranged from around 1.25x to 1.75x National Minimum Wage - I wouldn't be surprised if in the short term, jobs like that (and possibly the job you describe) see decreased earnings relative to the average. That however doesn't mean that it's a bad thing in the long term.

I don't like the current UK government, but I do think they have 2 good policies: increased NMW and increased personal tax allowance.

I totally agree that something has to be done to increase poor pay at the bottom end but it does nothing to increase pay ever so slightly higher up the scale. If a living wage got brought in for all jobs I would bin off doing what I do tomorrow because it isn't worth the stress. Lets face it, what is basically the customer service sector isn't going to suddenly start paying people more. It does however actually take some skill, natural talent and training to be done well. I am personally thinking of going on the black cabs. That is not to say that it takes no skill or training or natural ability but I have seen several friends start doing it for far less stress and more money of late.

Presumably the commercial factors that led to jobs paying above minimum wage (whether stress levels, supervisory responsibilities, qualifications required, etc) will still apply and these jobs will see some uplift with prices going up to compensate. But you are probably right that there will be some compression in pay ranges, with higher wages not rising proportionately as fast as minimum wages. But the socialists on this board should thoroughly approve of that!

 

[charley_17/7]

Perhaps rural areas vote Conservative because Labour lied back in 1969 about reversing the closure and 'protecting' of lines, and Castle then went onto close more than the previous (Conservative) administration? People don't tend to forget such things.

 

[fowler9]

Presumably the commercial factors that led to jobs paying above minimum wage (whether stress levels, supervisory responsibilities, qualifications required, etc) will still apply and these jobs will see some uplift with prices going up to compensate. But you are probably right that there will be some compression in pay ranges, with higher wages not rising proportionately as fast as minimum wages. But the socialists on this board should thoroughly approve of that!

It gets complicated now. If I could make nearly as much money as I do now doing a cleaning job or working manually in a factory I would do it. I still couldn't afford to buy a house or do any of the other things people aspire to but I would have a hell of a lot less stress. I say this as someone who has cleaned hospitals and even factories, as someone who has also done very straightforward manual work in a factory. I also worked horrible shifts then and I work horrible shifts now. I worked Christmas day last year and worked until 8 tonight. If I could get similar money doing a less stressfull job I would jump at it. There are a lot of people in Customer Services who would leave tomorrow if the "menial" jobs paid the same. Again I am not being a snob here. All the best anyway.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Certainly not, Victorian Dad.

Matters have now moved on to the stage where the youngest of my children have reached the age of 40 and had children of their own and I should now be described as "Victorian Grandad"...

 

[St Rollox]

Are there any farmers in the UK living in poverty?

 

[fowler9]

Matters have now moved on to the stage where the youngest of my children have reached the age of 40 and had children of their own and I should now be described as "Victorian Grandad"...

Ha ha, all the best Victorian Paul.

 

[tony_mac]

Matters have now moved on to the stage where the youngest of my children have reached the age of 40 and had children of their own and I should now be described as "Victorian Grandad"...

Assuming that the capital D was a hint - 'Victorian Dad', I believe, refers to the Viz comic strip of the same name.

To keep this post on topic, the average age of a farmer in the UK is 59.

 

[radamfi]

To keep this post on topic, the average age of a farmer in the UK is 59.

I would guess people in rural areas are generally older than in urban areas, and given that younger people are less likely to vote Tory if they actually go out to vote, that might explain the rural/urban split.

https://www.ipsos-mori.com/research...3575/How-Britain-voted-in-2015.aspx?view=wide

shows that 64% of the over 65s voted Tory or UKIP at the election, compared with 35% for the 18-24s and 43% for the 25-34s.

 

[muddythefish]

Perhaps rural areas vote Conservative because Labour lied back in 1969 about reversing the closure and 'protecting' of lines, and Castle then went onto close more than the previous (Conservative) administration? People don't tend to forget such things.

Perhaps the silliest explanation of all. If you look back in history landowners and by extension farmers have always been conservative with small c and capital C. Landowners were very hostile to the railways being built in the first place.
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Assuming that the capital D was a hint - 'Victorian Dad', I believe, refers to the Viz comic strip of the same name.

To keep this post on topic, the average age of a farmer in the UK is 59.

Well spotted. His writing style reminds me of that cartoon character.
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Are there any farmers in the UK living in poverty?

Hill farmers struggle but most of them are rolling in various govt and EU grants - but they would never admit it.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I would guess people in rural areas are generally older than in urban areas, and given that younger people are less likely to vote Tory if they actually go out to vote, that might explain the rural/urban split.

https://www.ipsos-mori.com/research...3575/How-Britain-voted-in-2015.aspx?view=wide

shows that 64% of the over 65s voted Tory or UKIP at the election, compared with 35% for the 18-24s and 43% for the 25-34s.

The older you are, the more wiser you tend to become...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

To keep this post on topic, the average age of a farmer in the UK is 59.

Not so very long ago, a radio snippet made mention that the suicide rate in farmers in the UK was the highest in any occupation.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Are there any farmers in the UK living in poverty?

I think that you have to differentiate between the small family owned farming businesses and the large corporate farming groups when asking that particular question.

It would be interesting to see the statistical record returns since 1900 for the total number of small farm businesses and the number that so exists today.

 

[muddythefish]

Suicide rate among farmers is high because they have access to guns which the vast majority of the population don't.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Suicide rate among farmers is high because they have access to guns which the vast majority of the population don't.

There are many different ways of committing suicide. Why have you chosen to only mention one particular method....do you have the percentage rate amongst farmers for that particular method of committing suicide?